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  #16   ^
Old Fri, Feb-07-20, 13:37
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
However, my understanding is that once there is permanent damage done to the kidneys (by whatever caused it), then the kidneys can't handle proteins as well - someone who has permanent kidney damage will be severely limited in how much protein they can eat.

First, cats are not people and people are not cats. However, when my 14-year-old cat was diagnosed with kidney disease (and not a minor case, either--her numbers were highly elevated) the vet told me to switch her to a low-protein diet, the standard recommendation.

This never made sense to me because cats are carnivores (more so than dogs) and if you take away what they need most, they will fail to thrive. So, I asked my friend who is a retired vet. He told me to feed her as much meat (raw and cooked) as she wanted and said that in his years of practice he's seen many more cats die from lack of protein than from the kidney disease. My cat is now a happy almost-17-year-old and still strong and vital.
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  #17   ^
Old Fri, Feb-07-20, 13:45
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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I shop looking for the sales. Hambuger prices vary a LOT. Fatty cuts definitely fill me up and hold me fir hours. Had a lean cut last week and I was hungry sooner than expected. Made sure the next meal had added fat. MUCH better.

I buy beef fat from the butcher weekly.

Look in the discount section. Check multiple sales fliers looking for best options. Buy extra to store in freezer.

Pork butt was 99cents a pound this week, whole turkey at 69 cents a pound, spiral hams at $1.99 per pound. Sometimes chix breasts are $1/lb, and those sure need added fat.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Fri, Feb-07-20 at 13:51.
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  #18   ^
Old Fri, Feb-07-20, 19:08
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,851
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
First, cats are not people and people are not cats. However, when my 14-year-old cat was diagnosed with kidney disease (and not a minor case, either--her numbers were highly elevated) the vet told me to switch her to a low-protein diet, the standard recommendation.

This never made sense to me because cats are carnivores (more so than dogs) and if you take away what they need most, they will fail to thrive. So, I asked my friend who is a retired vet. He told me to feed her as much meat (raw and cooked) as she wanted and said that in his years of practice he's seen many more cats die from lack of protein than from the kidney disease. My cat is now a happy almost-17-year-old and still strong and vital.



Wow, that's great!


Humans are not obligate carnivores like cats, but we sure do a lot of damage by eating too many carbs, so if I was told I had kidney damage, my first inclination would be to go against the traditional advice - cut the carbs to the bare minimum, and if I was feeling really brave, up the protein, just to see if it happened to help me, just like it helps a cat. If more protein truly ends up making things worse with kidney disease even in the absence of carbs, then fine, I'd cut back on it. To me, it's worth a shot to at least try before giving up and doing the standard low protein diet, because even on a low protein diet, kidney disease patients slowly continue to get worse.
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  #19   ^
Old Fri, Feb-07-20, 19:36
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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The "standard recommendation" is also to feed diabetics lots of starch and grains and "cover" them with insulin. So "expert" advice is not always correct.

My cat lived to 22.5 yrs old eating a 91% meat diet. He was diagnosed with stage 3 kidney disease and hyperthyroidism at 16. My vet was up on recent research and noted that most "kidney" diets cause pets to become fat & diabetic on top of having kidney disease, so they get sicker and often don't live more than 2 years.

Also, most low carb diets aren't actually high in protein, the % just looks higher because we cut out the carbs. Most people eat the same grams of protein on the SAD, LC and other diets. Diets primarily manipulate the amount of carbs & fat.

Last edited by deirdra : Fri, Feb-07-20 at 19:46.
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  #20   ^
Old Fri, Feb-07-20, 23:16
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,456
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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I wonder what caused all of your cats to get kidney disease in the first place? Could it be toxins in the cat chow kibbles?
I remember a few years back how a lot of the imported dog food was poisoning them because of toxins.
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  #21   ^
Old Sat, Feb-08-20, 03:28
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,606
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
I wonder what caused all of your cats to get kidney disease in the first place? Could it be toxins in the cat chow kibbles?
I remember a few years back how a lot of the imported dog food was poisoning them because of toxins.


That was a company which added a toxin, melamine, to the root of the supply chain so it would test protein: but it wasn't in a form anyone could digest. A nightmare for pet lovers and the company... got fined!

But yes, I also discarded the "lower the protein" advice as my cat aged. This is an obligate carnivore. If they are absorbing less, they need to eat more!
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  #22   ^
Old Sat, Feb-08-20, 09:45
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whited
Thanks -- I'm becoming more intrigued with this carnivore thing. I was always told that on low carb protein should be very low (10%) and that you HAD to have a lot of vegatables or you'd risk severe health issues. I might try it for a week and see if I can do it. I suppose the cooking will take some practice. But yikes I bought a small ribeye today and it was $10.



Low carb means reducing the carb count to faaar below the 300g a day the nutritionists push. Very Low Carb is under 30. Programs like DANDR and Westman put the level at 20 to ensure success.

The level of protein actual is about the same as SAD. Protein Power helped me to see extra protein was not necessary. Especially as "extra" can add to the glucose when one of our goals is to decrease insulin levels. ( When insulin is UP, fat is not mobilized.)

Energy is derived from high quality fats. Instead of the carbs. So its ok to increase oil / fats , which is counter to the low fat craze. How much fat is a personal call. When getting into ketosis, my fat intake is higher, and as my weight drops and appetite drops the fat intake decreases. IF I need a snack, a bit of fat works for me. Snacks like cheese and nuts send me off plan. Coconut oil is good as its MCT, and gives the brain energy.

High quality fats are worth the money. Best EVOO is more than just oil, as its loaded with micronutrients. Grassfed animals have fats loaded with vit A and vit C. Grassfed butter is another. I made the commitment to buy Kerrygold only. I buy what I can afford.

I buy grassfed beef at $6 a pound for my autistic son.....it helps. It's not everyday fare, but that meat goes to him first.

A little fat goes a long way.....and cheaper per pound than most fresh vegetables.

Hope this is helpful.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Sat, Feb-08-20 at 10:09.
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