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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Jan-29-09, 21:22
Meistro Meistro is offline
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Plan: Uhhh ... South Beach?
Stats: 152/152/135 Female 5ft. 7in.
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Progress: 0%
Location: Idaho
Default Crazy Vit D3 side effects! Help!

Help! I am a huge Vitamin D3 fan, but I am having a hard time sticking with it. I have suffered my whole life from SAD and have started using vitamin D (after many attempts at SSRI and using a lightbox). I KNOW this is going to help me. When I started taking it the first time, I felt so different and knew that if I could get the right dose, I would be a whole different person (in the good way of course). BUT...when I take it I am getting wicked side effects.

1) I am getting a "blunted" or brain fog feeling by the evening, no matter how much I take. (between 400iu and 5,000iu)
2) I feel disconnected and sometimes jittery and edgy from it.
3) After a few weeks on it, my elbows started tingling whenever I put pressure on them and sometimes even at night. (I have had tendinitis for a long time and it doesn't seem to be improving)

I am dying to get back on this (during the winter) so that I can really start to benefit from its amazing healing power...HELP!
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Jan-30-09, 09:24
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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I've heard some people are sensitive to D3 and can't really take it. They get the same effects out in the sun too.

My only suggestion is, maybe it isn't the D3 but something else. I used to get brain fog from eating wheat. Took me years to figure it out.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Jan-30-09, 10:53
Squarecube's Avatar
Squarecube Squarecube is offline
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Posts: 877
 
Plan: atkins/paleo/IF
Stats: 186.5/159.0/160 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meistro
Help! I KNOW this is going to help me.!


Make sure you have been tested to see if you need it:


My partner and I have been taking cod liver oil and finally got tested. Well, er, it turns out I may have poisenned him cuz He's well over normal and they have started all these tests for bone cancer and what not. My level is fairly normal even though I slug spoonfuls of cod liver oil when i remember.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Jan-30-09, 10:57
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Another thought is maybe the form of D3 you're taking isn't a good one for you.

You can get D3 from Cod Liver oil, but it's not recommended by D3 researchers because the high amounts of retinol in it can be toxic, cause bone loss, liver damage and also possibly blocks the D3 from getting used properly.

Also you can get D3 liquid capsules, which one doctor recommends.

You can also get D3 from lanolin sources (sheep). That's what I'm currently taking. It's a capsule with dry stuff inside.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Jan-30-09, 12:19
Squarecube's Avatar
Squarecube Squarecube is offline
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Posts: 877
 
Plan: atkins/paleo/IF
Stats: 186.5/159.0/160 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
recommended by D3 researchers because the high amounts of retinol in it can be toxic, cause bone loss, liver damage and also possibly blocks the D3 from getting used properly.



Grrrrr. How did I miss this? Recently Mercola started to NOT reccomend Cod Liver oil - and because it was Mecola I looked the other way.

Lanolin? What's it called? Have you been tested?
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Jan-30-09, 14:08
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
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We must be absolutely clear that the NORMAL levels of 25(OH)D are NOT THE NATURAL LEVELS our DNA evolved to function best at.

Normally we wear clothes, spend much of the day indoors or under cover, or in cars. It is quite NORMAL to wear cosmetics which even if they do not declare it act as sunblock to some extent. It is also quite normal to wear sunncreen or sunblock. Anyone who thinks the NORMAL level of 25(OH)D is clearly showing signs of cognitive dysfunction, probably a result of vitamin D insufficiency.

this explains that for the hormone Calcitriol to function at full power it requires an equal supply of stored D3 to match, molecule for molecule, the circulating cacidiol molecules.
The paper also demonstrates that human bodies only START to store D3 above 40ng and stores of D3 only accumulate above 50ng or 125nmol/l.

now look at this and explain why, if NORMAL levels of 25(0H)D are so healthy, do we see lower rates of chronic illness above 50ng or 125nmol/l?

In reply to the OP I'd suggest taking a months supply in one dose 3x 50,000iu then there will only be 12 times a year when you get these Nocebo effects. D3 is an inert substance. It only is converted to 25(0H)D after one hydroxylation and only to the active metabolite after a second hydroxylation. You body only makes the active hormone if it is required.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Fri, Jan-30-09 at 14:21.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Jan-30-09, 14:33
pennink's Avatar
pennink pennink is offline
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Posts: 12,781
 
Plan: Atkins (veteran)
Stats: 321/206.2/160 Female 5'4"
BF:new scale :(
Progress: 71%
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
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Get tested to find out if you need that much?

But all of those symptoms are signs of B12 deficiency.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Jan-30-09, 15:41
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecube
Grrrrr. How did I miss this? Recently Mercola started to NOT reccomend Cod Liver oil - and because it was Mecola I looked the other way.

Lanolin? What's it called? Have you been tested?

Really? I'm surprised Merocola came around. I know the folks at WAPF gave the D3 research doctors a cold reception when they said to avoid cod liver oil.

I'm taking Bio-tech. They have 5000 iu capsules. You can just google for it.

I'm due for another retest. Last time I tested I was taking about 4-5000 iu daily and was only at 40. So I doubled it to 10,000. You need about 3 months between tests when you change doses. So it's about time for another test.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Jan-30-09, 16:27
awriter's Avatar
awriter awriter is offline
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Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65
BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%
Default D3 spikes my BP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meistro
Help! I am a huge Vitamin D3 fan, but I am having a hard time sticking with it. When I take it I am getting wicked side effects.

You are NOT alone! I've tried every form and dose of D3 to no avail: within 3 hours of taking it, my BP spikes so badly I can actually FEEL it! And when I check, using my cuff, it's always unbelievably high. Within 24 hours it's gone and I'm back to normal, but it's scary.

I have tried it over and over again, taking it with food, without food, early, late, with calcium, without it, before exercise, afterward, and it's always the same result. As if I were having an allergic reaction or something. I'm wondering if it's genetic, because my son has a similar reaction. We can't even eat any food that has D3 added to it.

I've never been tested, but my annual physical is coming up in March and I'm definitely asking for it. Somehow it wouldn't surprise me to learn that my score is high, though how I don't know. Still, there has to be something going on here.

Lisa
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Jan-31-09, 04:10
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Useful podcast about Vitamin D
Starting with food sources is also regretable, food sources can only provide around one tenth of our daily need so imply that what you eat can make a significant contribution to your D3 status is misleading.

I disagree with what they say about getting tested BEFORE rather than after supplementing for 3 months. Because the vast majority of people are well below optimal status it is safer IMO, to start supplementing with effective strength D3 for 3 months and then seeing how much more D3 is required.

He goes on to say that over all the years he's been testing 25(OH)D he's only had a couple of people come to him with levels already above 50ng so it really is exceptional if you have adequate status without taking a significant amount of D3 supplement.
If you were one of those exceptionally good natural synthesiers of D3 and you took an extra 5000iu/daily it still will not raise your levels into the danger zone within 3 months If you look at those graphs you will see how they flatten out and don't keep going up at the initial rate.

Last edited by Hutchinson : Sat, Jan-31-09 at 04:26.
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Jan-31-09, 11:36
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 17,049
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/308.0/185 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Maryland, US
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meistro
Help! I am a huge Vitamin D3 fan, but I am having a hard time sticking with it. I have suffered my whole life from SAD and have started using vitamin D (after many attempts at SSRI and using a lightbox). I KNOW this is going to help me. When I started taking it the first time, I felt so different and knew that if I could get the right dose, I would be a whole different person (in the good way of course). BUT...when I take it I am getting wicked side effects.

1) I am getting a "blunted" or brain fog feeling by the evening, no matter how much I take. (between 400iu and 5,000iu)
2) I feel disconnected and sometimes jittery and edgy from it.
3) After a few weeks on it, my elbows started tingling whenever I put pressure on them and sometimes even at night. (I have had tendinitis for a long time and it doesn't seem to be improving)

I am dying to get back on this (during the winter) so that I can really start to benefit from its amazing healing power...HELP!


Quote:
1) I am getting a "blunted" or brain fog feeling by the evening, no matter how much I take. (between 400iu and 5,000iu)
You might need more D, and to take the D in more than one dose/day. 400IU of D is practically nil and 5,000 IU/day is probably not enough for a person with SAD.
Quote:
2) I feel disconnected and sometimes jittery and edgy from it.
This sounds like two reactions, 1. Not enough vitamin D. 2. Reaction to fillers in your formulation.
Quote:
3) After a few weeks on it, my elbows started tingling whenever I put pressure on them and sometimes even at night. (I have had tendinitis for a long time and it doesn't seem to be improving)
I suggest the tingling is a sign that the vitamin D is trying to work but again, you are not taking enough to do the job. Pain, tingling at the sites of former injuries is a sign that the vitamin D is re-healing injuries at those sites. The fact that it's only after a few weeks that you get these symptoms again suggests that you are not taking enough vitamin D.
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Feb-09-09, 06:19
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Posts: 4,737
 
Plan: Ray Peat (not low-carb)
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meistro

1) I am getting a "blunted" or brain fog feeling by the evening, no matter how much I take. (between 400iu and 5,000iu)
2) I feel disconnected and sometimes jittery and edgy from it.
3) After a few weeks on it, my elbows started tingling whenever I put pressure on them and sometimes even at night. (I have had tendinitis for a long time and it doesn't seem to be improving)

I am dying to get back on this (during the winter) so that I can really start to benefit from its amazing healing power...HELP!


Is it possible that these are side-effects from other deficiencies? Increased intake of Vitamin D raises your need, for example, for magnesium. Here is some of what Mary Eades has to say about the symptoms of magnesium deficiency:

"mental changes including agitation, anxiety, confusion, depression, disorientation, hallucinations, hyperactivity, irritability, nervousness, restlessness, exaggerated startle response (jumpiness); neurologic symptoms including numbness and tingling“"

She says this about magnesium and interactions with Vit D (I must point out that the good Drs Eades have changed their tune about Vit D since Mary Eades wrote this book in approx 2001)

"Cholecalciferol (vitamin D) stimulates the intestinal absorption of magnesium to a degree; however, because its stimulatory effect is stronger for calcium, supplemental vitamin D without extra magnesium can create a relative magnesium deficiency".

She says that "clouded thinking" is a symptom of potassium deficiency, but that magnesium deficiency has to be corrected before a potassium deficiency can be dealt with.

I think that the symptoms you have are related to your greater need for magnesium due to the Vit D intake. These symptoms match magnesium deficiency; I don't think the Vit D is to blame.

Try bathing (late) in Epsom Salts: that will give you good magnesium uptake (I haven't tried it, but they say it's good!). Otherwise just take supplements at night.

I hope this helps. I started giving my eldest daughter Vit D just a few days ago, because she has been recently diagnosed with mononucleosis. This morning, quite spontaneously, without any prompts from me, she suddenly said, "I feel happier!" I told her it must be the Vit D3 she's been taking, because exactly the same thing happened to me about 2-3 days after I took my first 4,000IU dose!

It really can make you feel happier, but, in your case, your magnesium deficiency needs correcting, too, otherwise the other deficiency symptoms are just going to depress you.

BTW, you can't test magnesium deficiency with a blood test as most of your magnesium is located in your bones. Just start taking between 400-600mg per day and you'll soon notice the difference. You might get "loose stools", but that is a small price to pay. Magnesium is needed for at least 300 enzymatic reactions in the body and is absolutely essential to good health. Magnesium deficiency is also very widespread. On an LC diet, you must either eat beef bone broth regularly to get more magnesium, or supplement. A lot of foods which are high in magnesium are also high in carbs (oats, dried fruit etc).

Sorry to rant, but magnesium is one of my fave subjects!

amanda
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Feb-09-09, 07:24
Hutchinson's Avatar
Hutchinson Hutchinson is offline
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Posts: 2,886
 
Plan: Dr Dahlqvist's
Stats: 205/152/160 Male 69
BF:
Progress: 118%
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Magnesium Chloride, dead sea salts, available fin 25kg bags from suppliers of agricultural/Equestrian Products/farm supplies CWG is my local place but there are plenty of others Countrywide are a UK chain that may also sell it.

I pay around £6.00 a bag and chuck a jugful in the bathwater and soak for 20minutes. There is evidence to show the magnesium is absorbed transdermally. More information here
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Feb-09-09, 09:50
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Posts: 4,737
 
Plan: Ray Peat (not low-carb)
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson
Magnesium Chloride, dead sea salts, available fin 25kg bags from suppliers of agricultural/Equestrian Products/farm supplies CWG is my local place but there are plenty of others Countrywide are a UK chain that may also sell it.

I pay around £6.00 a bag and chuck a jugful in the bathwater and soak for 20minutes. There is evidence to show the magnesium is absorbed transdermally. More information here


Nice link about magnesium chloride. I've just printed it out to read on the train tonight! I'll have to find out about getting Epsom Salts directly here in Germany: the postage on 25kg sacks would be horrendous!

I also noticed something about increasing your calcium intake if your blood pressure is low. My BP has gone down to 120/70 (a reading at the doctor's recently), or 110/60 (the reading I generally get on my home BP cuff). It used to be about 130/85, so I'm generally pleased that it has gone down (due to Wobenzym, LC and VitD3), but now it is a bit on the low side: I sometimes get dizzy feelings when I stand up quickly and I don't really need that.

I try to eat as much hard cheese made from raw milk as I can (the best dietary source from my reading on the matter), but I'm wondering if I should supplement after all. What's your take on that?

I always wonder about this business about calcification and have drawn the conclusion that we must be getting either too much calcium in our food, or we are not metabolizing it correctly (due to too little Vit D and magnesium, I guess, perhaps also potassium).

amanda
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Feb-09-09, 09:56
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Posts: 4,737
 
Plan: Ray Peat (not low-carb)
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutchinson
I pay around £6.00 a bag and chuck a jugful in the bathwater and soak for 20minutes. There is evidence to show the magnesium is absorbed transdermally. More information here


Do you think this might be the right stuff?

If you look at the description with the make-up of the product, most of it is Latinized German and the words are pretty much the same as in English, it's from an equine supplier, but seems to be used instead of salt to melt ice. It just struck me that it is also in 25kg bags like you mentioned!

Here's the link:

http://www.stroeh.de/s/shop/artikel...-25kg-Tuete.htm

amanda
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