I've gone for long periods w/o dairy especially during my vegetarian/vegan days.
Also tested it during LC/paleo.

I actually do better including it as it is easier for me to digest than meat.

I don't do a lot of mixing like cheese burgers and casseroles w meat/egg (although occ I'll make egg nog or a pancake)....I just eat a piece of cheese or use dairy in a vegie soup.
If I start eating all the proteins together, I'm not happy.

It's not just the carb count. What helps me is a high fat ratio (85% fat, 5% carb, 10% protein.) I do 20 flights of stairs a day, but no formal exercise. And I'm post menopausal.

Gluten free also helped. Eating only two big meals a day, no snacks. I did dairy free for years, with no effect on my weight, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be triggering something with you.

Also, there's thyroid, candida, and even stomach acid. I've started taking Beltaine HCL and I'm loving it!

There's always something more to try. And you can't know if it will help unless you try.

Thanks for all the additional feedback. I'm still experimenting with the dairy free thing.

I'm having a lot of problems the last couple of days with mucus in my mouth and drainage down my throat. The year or so before I went low-carb, I had this problem with having these ropes or strings of mucus in my mouth. I'm not sure how to describe it. It went away on low-carb and hasn't been an issue since - no matter what experiment I was trying or even if I was cheating. Now it's back? Is this a coincidence?

I'm going to guess that butter and cream aren't a problem. I think I may have been getting more cheese that I'd realized. Plus I love ranch dressing. I think I'll just stay dairy-free for a while and see what happens.

I found this article this weekend: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/80/5/1246.long

It had this graph showing the rise in serum insulin after ingestion of various kinds of protein (the 'meals' included 25 g of carb and 18.2 g of the protein). The whey protein (represented by a circle) sent it highest. The next highest was milk (the solid circle with a line through it). Below that is cheese (open triangle). The square is cod.



So, the cheese isn't as bad as milk. But cod is better. For someone like me with a high basal insulin level, avoiding cheese might be a good idea.

She thinks dairy makes her insulin surge.

So you are completely dairy-free and still very low carb for about three days, and now you have the mucus? Mucin deficiency is a common side effect of going very low carb, explaining why the mucus decreased before, but haven't a clue why it would come back. Unless it is a "healing crisis"? Or an unrelated cold? Aren't our bodies interesting? Still suggest you go completely dairy free, even butter for now, and give it at least a month before challenging back some dairy.

Dr Cordain's lab and a human study by Dr. Hoppe have already measured the increased insulin response. Non-fat yogurt has a GI of 24, but an insulin index of 115. A high milk diet increased the insulin response by 100%. Similar results to the study you found.

Thanks. I was consuming a lot of dairy - including tons of cream - during my high fat experiment. I was also hungry a lot. It was frustrating.

I think it's closer to five days now. The mucus problem started yesterday.



It would be interesting to see those numbers.

Is there any way - short of going to the doctor - of testing serum insulin? Something similar to the glucose or ketone meters?

Apparently not http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=450197

Thanks.

I'm watching Dr. Ede's talk on vegetables (on the front page of her blog). I really like her. She seems sensible, low-key, and down to earth. I also like that she mentioned that, for example, if you look on the Internet for info on nightshades, you'll find people who have pain with nightshades, but there's nothing in the scientific literature about it. I love that she validates people's lived experience rather than discounting it because no scientist has (yet) found it in a study.

I read her 2/7 posting on Ketosis and had to ask her if she was me. We sound so similar in so many ways. She's also having a really hard time losing weight.

I had a funny feeling that was you - maybe the name "Nancy" tipped me off. I feel like I've found our my first real paleo/LC role model and she's a doc, to boot!

I'm very impressed with her writing!

I have a question... BUT isn't the dazzling appeal of Atkins that you CAN and cheese, cream and butter? I mean I see so many people on here have such amazing success eating those 3 things. Granted. I'm 168, dropped to 163.8 and now i'm up to 165. I myself and not having the success of this diet. BUT isn't the appeal to be able to have those options since you are cutting out sugar and carbs? I mean really tho... why does it work SO WELL for some and nothing for others? I'm not going to lie tho. I feel healthier and better in my skin... I really do! but I'm not losing weight like I see from others. I've have Jamie V. from "your lighter side" check my eating list.. I've cut out nuts. and if I ditch the small amount of cheese or cream I use I may as well be on one of those horrible diets I hate so much... right? Unless I just stop and enjoy my weight for what is it and just leave it alone.

I dunno!

I liked this thread tho.. good read.

sorry if im coming off as a downer... ugh! I just want the weight success like everyone else from having these things that seem to not be working for me! I'm been on this since mid January.