I am really confused.

I have been back on Atkins since January 18th, have lost weight, and incorporated flax seed and coconut oil into the diet on a daily basis.

I also have uterine fibroids that have symptoms such as heavy periods -- but also the constant nagging pressure on the bladder which is an annoyance, but I did not feel worthy of a hysterectomy.

But in the last week or so I've lost those annoying symptoms (haven't had a period yet so don't know about that), some I didn't even know I had until they were gone.

A friend told me that she read 3 books on reducing fibroids the natural way and flax seed is always recommended. So I assumed that was probably what was happening --- but started a google search on the internet anyway.

Well, let me tell you, people are screaming about flax seed in 2 completely different directions. Some people (MD's included) are saying to absolutely avoid any phytoestogens or any substance that increases estrogen (which apparently flax seed does) because that will INCREASE the size of the fibroids.

And others (MD's included) are saying that flax seed really works to shrink the size of the tumors -- including breast tumors. Many, many, other remedies are also available for a price.

I have had this exact same bipolar response to the use of progresterone cream: it either helps fibroids or makes them much worse -- I also use progresterone cream a couple of weeks out of the month.

So, apparently science and anecdotal evidence are at odds here, and I'm not sure what to do. It makes sense that if symptoms have abated, then I should continue on the present course. On the other hand, maybe just the low carb diet, losing weight, coconut oil, saturated fat, progesterone cream, changes in hormone levels unrelated to diet, or other unknown factors could be contributing to the symptom reduction.

Any ideas here from the more educated or experienced? Again, I'm very confused.

Weird! I never heard of flax seed and fibroids either. I've heard that they shrink post-menopause because you produce much less estrogen.

I've got them too. :\

I didn't realize flax had estrogenic properties either.

As far as your dilemma... choose a side. This stuff happens all the time.

I don't have fibroids but I do avoid flax seed. Whenever I've eaten it, I get major food cravings . My guess is that it is the progesterone cream that is helping to shrink the fibroids. I also use it a couple of weeks out of the month to help balance my perimenopausal symptoms.

So glad something is working - whatever it is!! :0)

I have been using progesterone cream for a couple of years now without any change in fibroids -- and the current change is fairly dramatic. I suppose it could be a coincidence, but I'm still sticking with the flax seed. I just wish I understood the science better.

Hi, I found this abstract. Apparently flax seeds do indeed alter hormone ratios, at least. I wonder if flax seed oil does the same thing. -TFUP

ARTICLES
Effect of flax seed ingestion on the menstrual cycle

WR Phipps, MC Martini, JW Lampe, JL Slavin and MS Kurzer
Department of Obstetrics-Gynecology, University of Rochester, New York 14642.

Lignans are a group of phytochemicals shown to have weakly estrogenic and antiestrogenic properties. Two specific lignans, enterodiol and enterolactone, are absorbed after formation in the intestinal tract from plant precursors particularly abundant in fiber-rich food and are excreted in the urine. We evaluated the effect of the ingestion of flax seed powder, known to produce high concentrations of urinary lignans, on the menstrual cycle in 18 normally cycling women, using a balanced randomized cross-over design. Each subject consumed her usual omnivorous, low fiber (control) diet for 3 cycles and her usual diet supplemented with flax seed for another 3 cycles. The second and third flax cycles were compared to the second and third control cycles. Three anovulatory cycles occurred during the 36 control cycles, compared to none during the 36 flax seed cycles. Compared to the ovulatory control cycles, the ovulatory flax cycles were consistently associated with longer luteal phase (LP) lengths (mean +/- SEM, 12.6 +/- 0.4 vs. 11.4 +/- 0.4 days; P = 0.002). There were no significant differences between flax and control cycles for concentrations of either estradiol or estrone during the early follicular phase, midfollicular phase, or LP. Although flax seed ingestion had no significant effect on LP progesterone concentrations, the LP progesterone/estradiol ratios were significantly higher during the flax cycles. Midfollicular phase testosterone concentrations were slightly higher during flax cycles. Flax seed ingestion had no effect on early follicular phase concentrations of DHEA-S, PRL, or sex hormone-binding globulin. Our data suggest a significant specific role for lignans in the relationship between diet and sex steroid action, and possibly between diet and the risk of breast and other hormonally dependent cancers.

Thanks for posting, although I will have to ask someone else to explain it to me.

Kat

Yeah sorry about the lack of a good explanation, but I'm reading up on it right now, prolly same as you are. If I remember correctley, and please other folks come chime in here, improving the progesterone to estradiol ratio is one of the basic tenents of the estrogen dominance theory (which mainstream science does not acknowledge, not that anybody here really cares about mainstream science). Anyway, if the estrogen dominance theory holds true, ie if increasing the progesterone:estradiol raio will correct hormone balance and hopefully shrink those fibroids, well then logically, it would seem like both the cream and seeds might be able to help your body do that. But I'm adventuring into unkown territory here.....TFUP

OK you really might be on to something. This abstract presents evidence that flax seed has some anti-tumor proliferation properties. Here they test it on cancer cells, but I can't find anything on fibroid tumors. -tfup

Flaxseed and pure secoisolariciresinol diglucoside, but not flaxseed hull, reduce human breast tumor growth (MCF-7) in athymic mice.

Chen J, Saggar JK, Corey P, Thompson LU.

Department of Nutritional Sciences, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Previous studies have shown that dietary flaxseed (FS) can reduce the growth of established human breast tumors in athymic mice with low circulating estrogen concentrations. In this study, we determined the effect of FS compared with pure lignan at the level it is present in FS [secoisolariciresinol diglucoside (SDG)] and to the lignan-rich fraction [FS hull (FH)] on human breast tumor growth and their potential mechanisms of action. Ovariectomized, athymic mice, each with an implanted 17 beta-estradiol (E2) pellet (0.36 mg), were injected with human estrogen receptor (ER) positive breast cancer cells (MCF-7). When tumors were established, the E2 pellet was removed. Mice were fed either the control basal diet (BD), FS (100 g/kg diet), SDG (1 g/kg diet), or FH (18 g/kg diet) for 8 wk. Compared with the BD, FS and SDG significantly decreased the palpable tumor size, but effects of FS, SDG, and FH did not differ from one another. All treatments significantly inhibited cell proliferation, but only FS and SDG induced significantly higher apoptosis. Both FS and SDG significantly decreased mRNA expressions of Bcl2, cyclin D1, pS2, ERalpha, and ERbeta, epidermal growth factor receptor, and insulin-like growth factor receptor. FS also reduced human epidermal growth factor receptor 2 mRNA and SDG decreased phospho-specific mitogen-activated protein kinase expression. FH did not significantly reduce these biomarkers. In conclusion, pure SDG has a similar effect as FS in reducing tumor growth and in mechanisms of action, including downregulating ER- and growth factor-mediated cell signaling. The lesser effects of FH indicate a need for a higher dose to be more effective.

anovulatory=cycle where no egg is released. BC pills, pre-menopause, PCOS, breast feeding, and other things can cause this
Longer LPs are generally considered better for people TTC

I think that is the extent of how I can translate it. I can only speak a few phrases in this jargon picked up in our nightmare of TTC. Maybe someone else can help with the rest.

This is getting very interesting, but I am going to have to get a medical dictionary. I know about the theory of estrogen dominance, which is why I use progesterone cream. I use it somewhat sparingly, just to control symptoms, because I don't have enough information to decide how safe it is.

For example I figured out that athymic means without a thymus gland, but I looked up the reason those mice are used:

Athymic mouse: A laboratory mouse lacking a thymus gland. Athymic mice have no T cells and useful in research because they do not reject tumor or other cells transplanted from mice, humans or other species.

So I'll plug away because this is my body I am experimenting with, and I need to get more informed.

Thanks so much for the articles -- I am going to look for the full articles on-line.

Kat

I don't have any articles to link, but from personal experience, I think that women should stay away from anything that has an estrogenic effect, like flax and soy. I really think that flax as a "health food" is overrated.

Anyway, I was always estrogen dominant, due to being fed soy milk as a baby. Growing up I had the usual ovarian and breast cysts, etc. and other estrogen dominant symptom.

But I had a fairly easy menopause compared to other women. I ate mostly organic and unprocessed foods, not too much sugar, no milk, except half and half in coffee. Didn't use any progesterone.

However when I ate a carb/sugar-heavy meal, or ate non-organic - especially dairy foods, I experienced some menopausal symptoms. Ingesting and inhaling pesticides can mess with a woman's hormones.

I hope you can figure it out. It's a complicated issue.

Yeah I agree, but look at what is weird with this picture:

"Compared to the ovulatory control cycles, the ovulatory flax cycles were consistently associated with longer luteal phase (LP) lengths." ----This is not an estrogen dominance effect. The LP phase is under progesterone "dominance."

A few phrases later in the same abstract, the authors find that the progesterone:estradiol levels are increased under flax. Again, this should fight estrogen dominance, not make it worse. I was actually quite surprised by these results, as I thought that flax was estrogenic, not the opposite.

lengthening the luteal phase will probably also help some women conceive since this is the egg-implanting part of the cycle.

The decrease in cell proliferation also indicates an anti-estrogen effect (possibly). I'm wondering where my "common" knowledge of flax as an estrogenic substance comes from... heresay (sp?) or testing. -TFUP

It is February 3rd and I've been doing the flax seed thing for about six weeks. Science or no, it has been pretty amazing how my fibroid symptoms have disappeared -- some I didn't even realize I had until they were gone. No more bladder pressure, no more back pain, no more strange pain "down there." I can sleep on my stomach again. And I can't tell you how it has affected my periods, because I haven't had one! I will be so happy if that trend continues. If this is all a coincidence of suddenly becoming menopausal, that ok, because I don't have one negative symptom. I hope this isn't some temporary transformation, but it feels pretty darn good to feel normal again. I'll keep you posted.

Hi Kat,
Hope you will see this and post how you are. I am 54,still menstruating and have fibroids. I was taking a gentle cleanse supplement that had flax seed in it, called Continual Cleanse. I stopped when it seemed like I bled longer. But now I wonder whether I was actually having a discharge from the fibroids perhaps dissolving. I am past my last TOM by a few weeks, I may try to start this supplement again.

I was reading a lot on flax seeds and estrogen dominance also, and found conflicting info. I avoid soy because of thyroid issues,
but would like to try flax for the fibroids.

I also wonder if yours were getting smaller because of menopause. I am being evaluated for possible hysterectomy,
But I don't want one if I can do other things to shrink this and will be menopausal soon......thanks much!

Pmezak and others,

Sorry I haven't been responding to my own thread -- I'm moving and just too busy these days.

I still don't have an answer about the flax seed/tumor reduction issue, but I'm still eating flax with glee.

I make flax muffins, flax bread, and flax pancakes -- something almost every day and its the only "bread-like" product I eat.

And (cross your fingers), I no longer have fibroid symptoms. I haven't had another interuterine ultrasound because I hate them so much. So I know they have shrunk, but I don't know to what extent.

I'm having about 50-60 days between periods that are much less worse than they used to be. The last one was heavy for one day, and then tapered off -- with no cramping.

So again, flax is either helping me, or not making things worse. Who knows, and I may never find out if flax was the answer, but I certainly will not stop eating it.

I would have to have proof that it was dangerous to me as I am very happy with my body right now. I am going through early menopause with almost no symptoms (cross your fingers again). I have yet to have a hot flash or anything else other than occasionally getting cranky (and I do use progesterone cream and even that symptom goes away).

Lets hope everything stays on track.

Great discussion everybody and good luck with your own way.

Kat