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  #46   ^
Old Thu, Mar-23-23, 14:24
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
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Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
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Hello, everyone. I'm a little late to this party. In fact, I've been AWOL from this wonderful forum for much too long. But here I come....

I've followed the news of the new "weight loss" drugs with great interest. My chief takeaways:

--These drugs seem to be "appetite suppressants." I have been unable to determine if there are other hormonal or physiological effects which facilitate weight loss.
--People using these (fabulously expensive!!) drugs lose 10-20% of their weight. In many individuals considered "obese," perhaps not enough to bring that person into a healthy range (according to some chart or another).
--If the person stops the drugs, the weight loads back on very quickly.
--The drugs are accompanied by, yes, diet and exercise recommendations. This seems to be a terribly expensive new version of "eat less, move more."

A previous poster on this thread asks the question: Are the many, many people who are no longer posting here all out there enjoying their low-carb diets and keeping weight off?

My answer is yes, with this advisory. I spent twenty years grooving my LowCarb swing. I consider low-carb eating my baseline. There are certain things I no longer use as part of my everyday diet: sugar, potatoes and other starchy vegetables, pasta, bread and bakery products, diet beverages, fast food (pizza, fried chicken, etc.)

I'm not a saint, so there are occasional exceptions. The main thing I try to avoid completely in its countless sneaky forms is SUGAR.

I am happy and healthy with the way I eat. No sense of deprivation and no social consequences that make me feel like a dietary pariah.

Now age 76, I no longer aim to weigh 135--or even 150. The fact that my weight is stable is a considerable achievement. No more yo-yo me.

Once upon a time, I allowed my doc to prescribe the notorious fen/phen. It was an incredible appetite suppressant which, in pre-low-carb days, helped me lose fifty pounds in about six months. Sensibly, I stopped taking the drug after about four months. I was aghast to discover long afterward the high risk of heart damage. I think I got lucky.

A long-term low-carb commitment has helped me prefer foods that promote healthy nutrition, allowed me to enjoy cooking, and enabled me to sustain a reasonable weight.

There's no magic diet, magic drug, or magic anything. It's commitment that works in the long haul.

P.S. People have different genetic inheritance. Today's food and water environment may promote a tendency to obesity--worldwide. Everybody has to figure out what's going on in themselves, and take what actions work for them. I do not think "eat less, move more" (calorie restriction, calorie expenditure) is a universal solution.
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  #47   ^
Old Wed, Apr-05-23, 05:04
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,371
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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This doctor includes the results from the follow-up studies, including stopping the drug vs continuing to take it forever.

https://sensiblemed.substack.com/p/...m_campaign=post

Barbara, You have found the "click", many of us here have, but…
Quote:
Another uncertainty is why the effect seems so dependent on the drug? Why is there no click?

What I mean is that patients that I have seen who have lost weight and maintained it with lifestyle change have something click. That something prevents them from ever returning to their previous ways.

This intervention seems devoid of that click. While it may be possible for patients to take a drug like this for decades, to me, that seem less than ideal.
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  #48   ^
Old Thu, Apr-06-23, 07:58
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
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There's no "click" because these people change nothing about themselves. They don't know what drives them to eat and they don't care what drives them to stop.

There's been a lot of people sharing weight loss surgery experiences online and it seems the procedures have improved and the patient's experience no longer such a horror story.

I think this works for them because, unlike previous surgeries, they no longer risk absorption issues. At least, that is my impression of the ethically inclined ones, who do enforce some hardwon lessons about new habits and therapy.

Some of them need the structured program with real body feedback. They have hormone issues, emotional issues, exhaustion issues. If they think they need this tool, and the accompanying support, I can see their point.

But they also talk about people who don't get the click, either. They gain it all back and more because they won't/can't change their behavior.

Taking a drug that screws with their body chemistry sounds like a similar issue.
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  #49   ^
Old Wed, Apr-19-23, 08:09
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Default Dr. Berry not big on Ozempic

Recent Ken Berry, MD video about how ozempic shrinks one's fat cells... AND multiplies their number. Accounting for the dramatic weight regain & then some which is reported.

The problems with Ozempic

He focuses on what we know about the receptors in the body, and how no one knows the long term effects of shutting off these receptors. This is something I am highly sensitive about, as the latest waves of drugs are more likely to trigger long term side effects. The kind that don't go away when people stop the drug.

And they sure aren't publicizing that MOAR fat cells thing. I did not run across that anywhere in the places I tried to look it up but it must be in one of those complicated papers about GOP-1 receptors.

But then I ran across this and I mentally staggered back.

Quote:
A team of academics have found that the injectable prescription medications Ozempic and Mounjaro can cause serious side effects, such as accelerated ageing. Feb 8, 2023

NEWSWarning that Ozempic and Mounjaro can trigger accelerated aging


Quote:
People using Ozempic are also at an increased risk of developing thyroid tumours, vision complications, cancer, pancreatitis and kidney and gallbladder problems, the study has reported.


Ozempic has a black box warning. Dr. Berry even said, "which is on that pamphlet you didn't read."
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  #50   ^
Old Wed, May-03-23, 02:54
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
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Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
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Quote:
Doling out drugs is no way to halt child obesity

To combat the effects of junk food the government must learn from other countries rather than rely on Big Pharma


The Hansel and Gretel food industry has spent decades trying to lure our children into eating its ultra-processed products: crisps, doughnuts, ice cream, fried chicken, chocolate cereals and muffins. Many of the most successful, addictive and artificial creations imitate the carbs-to-fat ratio in breast milk and are deemed to have hyper-palatability, overriding our natural appetites.

Manufacturers appear to have had few qualms about fattening up our children, enticing them with ads and adding irresistible syrup, sweeteners, salt and flavourings. This has made billions of pounds from boosting an epidemic of overeating that is destroying our health, costs the NHS an estimated £6.1 billion a year and accounts for one sixth of NHS admissions. More than 29.5 million people in the UK are classed as obese, including a fifth of all 11-year-olds.

Now another industry, Big Pharma, is set to make billions of dollars by giving teenagers as well as adults a shot of semaglutide once a week to help them lose this weight. In the US, the drug has already been approved for anyone over 12 and the UK government is considering doing the same. The pharma companies may seem like fairy godmothers waving their syringes but our children now risk being blown up then deflated like balloons, pumped up with cakes and crisps before being pricked with slimming drugs that will cost the NHS yet more cash while making the global drugs industry an estimated $50 billion by 2030.

These new weight-loss drugs, marketed under brand names like Wegovy and Ozempic, may prove to be beneficial for adults. Men in particular, from Elon Musk to Jeremy Clarkson, seem to adore their quick if expensive (£250 a month) fix and aren’t embarrassed to show off their slender new bellies. Originally created for diabetics, the drugs help to suppress hunger pangs and shift weight better than the old grapefruit and coffee diets. But the potential side-effects seem severe: the risk of nausea, vomiting, vitamin deficiencies or, in a friend’s case, loss of taste and smell. Participants also regain, on average, two thirds of their lost weight when they quit.

Many adults, who have been struggling with their waistlines for years, are prepared to take the risks. But children should learn to eat healthily before they get into this cycle of addiction. We are in danger of becoming a nation locked in a cycle of binge and purge that could cost us a fortune in medical bills, harm our self-esteem and encourage even more food disorders.

Being overweight is hereditary, don’t fat-shame, celebrate body positivity, millennials say. Why can’t we bring cake into the office, insist the older generation — don’t be killjoys. It’s true that skinny depictions of models and actors are also harmful and the overweight shouldn’t be stigmatised, because willpower alone won’t fix this problem. But this isn’t about looks, it’s about health, and this country has become super-sized. Only 1 one per cent of people were classed as obese in 1950; now our multiple rolls of fat are making us more susceptible to diabetes, dementia, depression, strokes and inflammatory bowel disease.

Since 1992, successive governments have launched 689 anti-obesity measures but few have stuck because, like calorie-counting on menus, they rely on individual determination rather than changing the quality and quantity of food. Henry Dimbleby resigned recently as the government’s food tsar in frustration at this “insane inaction”. But there is another way. In Japan, they had a similar problem after the Second World War when American troops got local children addicted to Twinkies, fries and hotdogs, until they countered by providing all pupils with free nutritious raw fish and rice lunches.

In Finland in 1972, men in North Karelia were found to have the highest rate of heart disease in the world. The Finns introduced healthy school meals, bike paths, playgrounds and put pressure on food firms to reduce fat and salt in their products. Cardiovascular mortality rates have dropped by 80 per cent.

In Amsterdam they focused on activities. Within three years of their Healthy Weight Approach initiative in 2012, the city saw a 12 per cent drop in childhood obesity. Fruit juice was banned from schools, the number of fast food outlets was limited and advertising restricted, and subsidised activities were provided for low-income families. Teenagers now cycle on average 1,098 km a year.

So there is more the British can do before succumbing to injections. But we need to accept that personal responsibility is not enough. It’s impossible for most individuals to ignore the multibillion-pound fast food industry, as the infectious diseases doctor Chris van Tulleken explains in his new book Ultra-Processed People. Unlike smokers or alcoholics, food addicts can’t attempt to go cold turkey; they need to eat, yet suppliers and supermarkets push them to mainline sugar and fat.

Free nutritious school meals for all primary school children would be the best start. The 2018 sugar tax on fizzy drinks has worked, with most companies rapidly reformulating their brands. Now 64 per cent of voters believe food conglomerates should be taxed on sugar and salt content in food.

Exercise, as the Dutch discovered on rolling out their project nationwide, helps, in conjunction with healthy eating. The children’s commissioner, Rachel de Souza, said last week, “Children have told me again and again that they want to be active”. Rishi Sunak has had no qualms about insisting on maths until 18, so why not sport? Fewer than half of children aged six are taking at least an hour of activity a day. That’s 12 hours stuck in a seat. Meanwhile, a ban on junk food adverts before 9pm on TV would signal the government is serious.

Feed them up, then slim the down is not the answer. This generation of Hansel and Gretels deserve a chance to escape our toxic food tales.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...esity-50hlgwf85
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  #51   ^
Old Wed, May-03-23, 21:18
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
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Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
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At least "anal leakage" is not a common side effect, like with the last miracle weight-loss drug that people snapped up. But Ozempic's side effects include several that would be life shortening.
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  #52   ^
Old Thu, May-04-23, 03:42
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
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Since I am now more focused on preserving and increasing lean muscle mass and bone density as I age, this new article on a longer term result of Ozempic caught my eye:

Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bone Density


Quote:
-Rapid weight loss from taking GLP-1 medications like Ozempic and Wegovy can cause a decrease in muscle mass, lessen bone density, and lower your resting metabolic rate, leading to sarcopenia.
-Sarcopenia is the gradual loss of muscle mass, strength, and function and is typically associated with aging.
-Lifestyle changes such as increasing protein intake and incorporating strength and resistance training can help combat muscle and bone density loss while taking GLP-1 medications.

Many people taking glucagon-like peptide 1 (GLP-1) drugs like Ozempic or Wegovy (semaglutide) and Mounjaro (tirzepatide) experience rapid weight loss.

“According to a clinical trial of Ozempic, after 68 weeks on the medication, 86.4% of participants lost 5% or more of their body weight, and 69.1% lost 10% or more of their body weight.”

While weight loss can bring about health benefits, losing weight rapidly can also cause a decrease in muscle mass, lessen bone density, and lower your resting metabolic rate, leading to sarcopenia — the gradual loss of muscle mass, strength, and function.

“Sarcopenia affects the elderly population and typically is associated with aging. However, rapidly losing weight with GLP-1s like Ozempic or Wegovy without the proper diet and exercise can also cause sarcopenia (sometimes referred to as ‘skinny fat’) at any age, negatively affecting a person’s quality of life by reducing their stamina and ability to perform daily activities, such as easily walking up stairs,” Dr. Rekha Kumar, a practicing endocrinologist in NYC and Chief Medical Officer of Found, told Healthline.

Sarcopenic obesity mimics obesity, she added, and occurs when a person’s BMITrusted Source is in the normal or low range, but their levels of lean muscle are so low that fat and bones are the only metabolically active tissue.

“[It’s] important to note that a lower body weight does not always mean that a person is healthier. After some weight loss is achieved and a person reaches a plateau, it is important to assess body composition.”

Continues at:


https://www.healthline.com/health-n...uscle-mass-loss
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  #53   ^
Old Thu, May-04-23, 03:58
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Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
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Those magical weight-loss drugs do seem to have a dark side.
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  #54   ^
Old Thu, May-04-23, 14:28
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Since I am now more focused on preserving and increasing lean muscle mass and bone density as I age, this new article on a longer term result of Ozempic caught my eye:

Ozempic Can Cause Major Loss of Muscle Mass and Reduce Bone Density




https://www.healthline.com/health-n...uscle-mass-loss

On a recent podcast from March 28, 2023 “What Your GP Doesn’t Tell You,” hosted by Liz Tucker, Terence Young advised all to be very careful taking a prescription that was approved less than 9 years ago. In the case of these new GLP-1 drugs, this is excellent advice. The Gliterati are eating these things like candy. Kind of crazy if you ask me. With no history of any drug impacting metabolism like these, there is the great potential for danger.

Last edited by GRB5111 : Thu, May-04-23 at 14:33.
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  #55   ^
Old Fri, May-05-23, 03:03
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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I keep running into more drugs which turn out to have permanent side effects. And they are overwhelmingly for controlling symptoms, not fixing what might be broken.

The risk is huge and the drug is not actually doing anything. I'm not disparaging pain control, but statins are notorious for a range of side effects and they change a number on a person's labs.

The benefits remain very small, even in the group of men who have already had a heart attack. Which is the only group which shows even a weak benefit.

Women have no business taking it. The science isn't there.
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  #56   ^
Old Fri, May-05-23, 05:21
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
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Article from Insider in March

Quote:
Summary: Dr Attia wrote about this in March.

-Semaglutide has been celebrated as an effective medication for weight loss and appetite reduction.
-But patients lose muscle mass too, which can undermine the health benefits, says Dr. Peter Attia.
-He recommends trying other weight loss strategies first, and eating enough protein to maintain muscle.
. https://www.insider.com/weight-loss...or-warns-2023-3

Following post on Dr Attia's blog in February. https://peterattiamd.com/the-downsi...eptor-agonists/

The Downsides are there if one looks, but hard to find them in all the breathless articles about losing 150 pounds in 6 months.

Rob, Nine years sounds like good advice!
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  #57   ^
Old Sun, May-14-23, 06:31
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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From what I'm seeing online, people are fleeing the drug because it is triggering anxieties and suicidal ideation in people who never had problems before.

So far, they go off the drug, which takes tapering down like an SSRI, and the problem goes away. But I'm not confident it's that simple.

With statins, it DOES trigger ALS (Lou Gehrig Disease) if a person is genetically vulnerable. But nobody tests for it and nobody warns you.
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  #58   ^
Old Tue, May-16-23, 14:07
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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I thought I'd posted this on here before, but apparently not, because I don't see it anywhere.

A friend took a drug very similar to semaglutide (ozempic/wegovy) years ago. She said she lost weight on the drug like crazy, but had to quit because it made her so nauseous and upset her digestive tract so much. Weight came right back as soon as she stopped taking it.

Another thing she said about it was that because of how nauseous it makes you, you simply can't eat LC - it's just too difficult to digest fats and proteins on it. So you end up eating mostly carbs, and still feel sick to your stomach most of the time.

I'm thinking that feeling sick to your stomach most of the time must be a major part of the appetite suppressant, since most of us don't feel much like eating if we're constantly nauseous.

Despite all the glowing reports of how quickly you lose weight on it, I'm finally starting to see lists of side effects, and nausea is one of the major ones.


Currently, her diabetic sister is taking it, and has lost a tremendous amount of weight. She didn't say much about the nausea, but she did say her sister looked like she'd aged about 20 years in the couple of months she's been taking it.
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  #59   ^
Old Wed, May-17-23, 08:27
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
I thought I'd posted this on here before, but apparently not, because I don't see it anywhere.

A friend took a drug very similar to semaglutide (ozempic/wegovy) years ago. She said she lost weight on the drug like crazy, but had to quit because it made her so nauseous and upset her digestive tract so much. Weight came right back as soon as she stopped taking it.

Another thing she said about it was that because of how nauseous it makes you, you simply can't eat LC - it's just too difficult to digest fats and proteins on it. So you end up eating mostly carbs, and still feel sick to your stomach most of the time.

I'm thinking that feeling sick to your stomach most of the time must be a major part of the appetite suppressant, since most of us don't feel much like eating if we're constantly nauseous.

Despite all the glowing reports of how quickly you lose weight on it, I'm finally starting to see lists of side effects, and nausea is one of the major ones.


Currently, her diabetic sister is taking it, and has lost a tremendous amount of weight. She didn't say much about the nausea, but she did say her sister looked like she'd aged about 20 years in the couple of months she's been taking it.

Sounds like the gift that keeps on giving to the pharmaceutical companies selling these drugs. Start it and pay lots of money, stop and gain weight, start back and continue paying lots of money while some are miserable and simply trying to get healthy and feel good about themselves after failing in every other approach. Sad bordering on criminal.
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  #60   ^
Old Fri, May-19-23, 06:59
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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I've been watching all kinds of people on Youtube, from doctors to fat activists, discussing the drug. They are loving "having their appetite taken away." They "don't care about food anymore."

But that isn't good, either. Now you are looking at a possible eating disorder. What bothers me are the high numbers of people who undoubtedly use food as a coping mechanism... what are they going to do now?

All the people still driven by that insatiable sugar appetite are still dealing with the same things. What happening to their body chemistry, and why so many many side effects if it's "healthy"?
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