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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Jan-05-20, 22:47
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 13,047
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
Default Nina Teicholz Discusses Failures in Nutrition Policy

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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jan-06-20, 00:12
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
Posts: 1,413
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
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It's way past the time to do away with gov food guidelines. Since that won't happen, increasing the crowd of people who ignore them works.

Always wondered how to pronounce her name lol.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Jan-06-20, 02:30
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,467
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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I believe science interpretation as a part of public policy IS the job of government. It's certainly not the job of most governments NOW.

The "appalling lack of good science in the guidelines," to quote Nina Teicholz. THAT is the problem. Corporations cut money spent on research so they could slide in and get their products stamped as HEALTHY. THAT is the problem.

It's like blaming this on science, when Ancel Keys didn't use science. Science still works! We need more science in our science!
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Jan-06-20, 19:49
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 13,047
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
It's way past the time to do away with gov food guidelines. Since that won't happen, increasing the crowd of people who ignore them works.

Always wondered how to pronounce her name lol.


rofl x2
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jan-07-20, 08:07
tess9132 tess9132 is offline
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Posts: 853
 
Plan: general lc
Stats: 214/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
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Quote:
I believe science interpretation as a part of public policy IS the job of government.
The problem, as I see it, is that there's too much money involved. Too many politicians and scientists have too much at stake. Look at how corrupt our politicians (on both sides of the aisle) are today. The more power we give the government, the more room there is for corruption. Wheat and corn farmers give so much money to politicians via re-election campaigns and seats to family members on their boards. I saw a meme that showed some politician decrying corruption. Her congressional salary is 174k and she's been in Congress for years. She's worth millions. Why? Because her family can get on boards of companies and win government contracts that will pay them millions. And these people get to write policy. The corruption and quid pro quo throughout every layer of our government is appalling.

I'll agree though that it would be wonderful to have a neutral arbiter who could sift through studies, but I just don't believe such an animal exists. It would be nice if we could trust the medical community, but they also have their livelihoods and standard of living at stake.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Jan-07-20, 10:55
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 13,047
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
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Yes,my DH was moved out of his job, to another, so local politician could put his buddy in that position. A buddy with no training. Dh had gone to college and had 20 years on the job training... moved out in a heart beat. The years have moved on and DH still working , just goes with the flow...though he worried about a couple of his staff that needed a little TLC. AND that new guy was gone in 6 m....he quit.Yet my DH had done that job for many many nany years.

Us voters are too complasent. We need to be rioting for change. The presidency was changed to term limits, perhaps voting for term limits for other positions has come.

These people are killing us.

In the mean time, perhaps we can email information like this interview.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Jan-08-20, 02:38
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,467
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Us voters are too complasent. We need to be rioting for change.


None of this information is held in vaults. It needs to be sought out and acted upon.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Jan-09-20, 03:47
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
Posts: 1,413
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
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She brings up great points that leads to the negative media LC gets:

veganism is the antithesis of the low carb movement

money behind veganism has become much more significant

they are being used by a set of corporate interests now and there's a vast amount of money behind them

animal rights activist money, which is massive


Pharmaceutical money... anybody who's threatened by low carb is going to be behind veganism
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Jan-09-20, 05:04
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,467
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
animal rights activist money, which is massive


I've been involved in animal rights activity since grade school. It led me to vegetarianism: then science led me out of it.

As a cat advocate, I live with, consult about, and feed OBLIGATE CARNIVORES.

And as recent events have proved: I'm kind of one myself
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Jan-09-20, 08:23
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,512
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/170/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 110%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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With the recent development of all the various fake meats, I feel that more corporate public relations efforts money will be moving into the pro-vegetarian/vegan push and against the meat industry.
Public relations firms are very good at getting the media to air their announcements and the science articles supporting the meat industry will be ignored.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Jan-09-20, 08:50
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 13,047
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Piles of letters to senators also have an impact, if only we started a grass root campaign.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Jan-10-20, 02:28
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,467
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
With the recent development of all the various fake meats, I feel that more corporate public relations efforts money will be moving into the pro-vegetarian/vegan push and against the meat industry.
Public relations firms are very good at getting the media to air their announcements and the science articles supporting the meat industry will be ignored.


While true, I recently saw a manager laughing as he stocked the meat case. As I approached, I saw he was making a "better than beef" display and when he saw me, he explained, "What a load of bull. People prefer real bull."

Yes, the Real Food is surrounded by too many carbs, but can't we turn that factory farm or field of soybeans back into grasslands and turn herbivores loose on it?
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Jan-10-20, 05:13
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,233
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Touring my local Supermarkets this week in search of Italian sausage, I found new sections of fake meat and many more selections of turkey sausage. Looks like 2020 is the year for Supermarkets to double down by providing increased shelf space for Almost Meat and turkey versions of sausage. Fortunately, I located the sausage I was seeking at one store. Could no longer find Italian sausage at Harris Teeter. If this is a trend, I'm not a happy camper.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Jan-10-20, 07:56
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,467
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Touring my local Supermarkets this week in search of Italian sausage, I found new sections of fake meat and many more selections of turkey sausage. Looks like 2020 is the year for Supermarkets to double down by providing increased shelf space for Almost Meat and turkey versions of sausage. Fortunately, I located the sausage I was seeking at one store. Could no longer find Italian sausage at Harris Teeter. If this is a trend, I'm not a happy camper.


Companies PAY for that shelf space. And what they WANT to sell me is chicken sausage which tastes like dirt, sausage from big companies with soy and gluten protein bulking out the meat, and overpriced stuff that's been injected with a "flavoring solution" of up to 20%.

I get Nathan's hot dogs for DH, which still taste like they used to, and a Portuguese sausage company from NYC which makes traditional selections we like with eggs.

I can get ground pork from humanely raised hogs and grassfed ground beef from Aldis, and that's something I make a lot. Otherwise, I buy more of our meat at the health food store. I love it, it's local and humane, but pricey. However, I just juggle the budget as best I can, because those big companies are putting something in there my body does not like.

And charging me meat prices for what gets swept off the granary floor, apparently.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Jan-10-20, 08:45
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
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Posts: 1,372
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Companies PAY for that shelf space. And what they WANT to sell me is chicken sausage which tastes like dirt, sausage from big companies with soy and gluten protein bulking out the meat, and overpriced stuff that's been injected with a "flavoring solution" of up to 20%.

I get Nathan's hot dogs for DH, which still taste like they used to, and a Portuguese sausage company from NYC which makes traditional selections we like with eggs.

I can get ground pork from humanely raised hogs and grassfed ground beef from Aldis, and that's something I make a lot. Otherwise, I buy more of our meat at the health food store. I love it, it's local and humane, but pricey. However, I just juggle the budget as best I can, because those big companies are putting something in there my body does not like.

And charging me meat prices for what gets swept off the granary floor, apparently.



Yes, the manufacturers pay for the most desirable shelf space - but they're not going to pay for it for very long if their product isn't selling.



Working in a grocery store, I did see a surprising number of people buying the fake meats, but other than the ones who apparently didn't even read the label, and just picked it up because it appeared to be great big pre-formed hamburger patties, the ones who realized what they were buying, it seemed like they were only buying it to try it for whatever reason -perhaps because someone they knew told them it was better for them than real meat, or a friend insisted that they couldn't tell the difference between that fodder and real meat. Sometimes it was because they wanted to provide something that would make a vegan guest happy at a holiday meal.



But the meat case guy that said people prefer real bull was exactly right.


There's a thread on here somewhere quoting an executive at one of the fake meat companies as saying their target market is NOT the vegetarian or vegan - they want to sway meat lovers to use their products. Since vegans are a very small part of the population, even if they buy it, they would never be enough of a market share to warrant all the $$$ being invested in these products - certainly not worth what these companies are paying for prime grocery display real estate. The thing is, they're really not going to fool or even interest most meat eaters in that garbage, other than when buying it for a guest who is already vegan, or trying it on a dare, or accidentally picking it up because it LOOKS like real meat, and is sold in the meat dept. (I had many customers shocked at the ridiculous price they were charging for a couple of hamburgers, and had me take it off their order)



My hope is that it'll go the way of so many other new products, and that it won't be around for very long.
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