Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Nutrition & Supplements
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Thu, May-24-01, 10:47
lizzy38
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
Plan:
Stats: //
BF:
Progress:
Default Leg cramps ... potassium, calcium, magnesium

Leg cramps
Hi Doreen:
Sorry to bother you but my other half Bruce is eating the way I do except can't get him to drink very much water. He does have a little more carb than I as he doesn't need to lose weight.
He gets cramps similiar to charlie horse in his calf and travels up to his thigh. During the night he had one so bad and lasted quite awhile that he broke into a cold sweat and said he felt like passing out. We think also he is starting to retain water again and has had this problem since his double bypass a yr. and 3 months ago. Doctor had him on water pills but didn't seem to agree with him. Can you recommend a good herbal type. Just realized you recommended Calcium Magnesium to some else. Why this and how does it help the cramps and why would he get it so bad now? Is he missing anything in his diet? Mind you I take this for osteo and also glucosamine Sulfate. By the way how many mg. of calcium magnesium should be taken a day.
I will be very appreciative for your input.

Take care
Liz (Lizzy)


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Thu, May-24-01, 11:48
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,228
 
Plan: LC paleo
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default Re: Leg cramps

hi Liz,

Calcium is the very first mineral I think of when I hear night-time muscle cramps / charley-horse pain. Magnesium is also an important muscle food; it works with calcium -- the two minerals need to be in balance -- too much of one can lead to not enough of the other, and vice versa. Blood clots in the leg veins, varicose veins and other circulation problems can cause severe cramping and shooting pains in the calfs (calves??) as well, but it's usually experienced with walking and weight-bearing activity.

Calcium doesn't affect the muscles directly ... it's more of a "nerve" food ... it's required for the proper conduction of nerve impulses to and from the muscle tissue. Here's the scenario -- a nerve impulse is sent to a muscle causing it to contract. The impulse is then sent back to the nerve, and continues along the pathway, with calcium being a "carrier" in the fluid between the nerve cells. If calcium levels are low, the impulse isn't transmitted efficiently from nerve cell to nerve cell -- thus, the poor muscle stays in an uncomfortable state of contraction .. ..

We've all been indoctrinated with women's need for calcium, and the risks of osteoporosis post-menopause (estrogen protects the bones). It's recommended pre-menopause adult women get 1000 mg per day of calcium, and 1500 mg per day post-menopause or over age 50. However, in the last 5 yrs, there's been considerable evidence that MEN over age 50 also need to pay attention to calcium intake --- osteoporosis and hip fracture are just as big a threat to senior men as to women. So, the recommendation is for 1000 mg per day for men as well.

Dairy products do indeed have a lot of calcium in them, but its not well-absorbed, despite the claims from the "Got Milk" commercials on TV. Dark green vegetables, almonds, tofu are good sources, and more readily absorbed. For a calcium supplement, avoid Tums or Rolaids. Yes, these have calcium in them (as well as lots of sugar) but the antacid can cause your stomach to not produce enough acid for proper digestion.

It's also worth noting that vitamin D is required in order for calcium to be absorbed into bone. We make our own vitamin D in response to bright sunlight passing through the skin ... minimum of one hour a day is required. This is fine in the summer, but if you're indoors a lot in winter, or there's little sunshine ... you might consider taking a supplement, such as cod liver oil. Vitamin D is added to liquid milk products, and dry skim milk powder, but milk is too high in carbs for a sufficient amount of the vitamin to be consumed. And cheese, cream, yogurt ... other dairy products ... do NOT have vit. D added. Adults up to age 50 need 200 units per day; over 50 yrs, the recommendation is 400 units.

Magnesium also plays a role in nerve impulses to the muscles, but is more important for strength and endurance. Low magnesium will result in muscle fatigue and weakness. Recommended 400 mg per day.

Most folks will do well with a calcium-magnesium supplement combined in a 2:1 ratio --- ie, twice as much calcium as magnesium. They often have vitamin D added. Look for a type of supplement that says it is chelated (key-late) .. the mineral is bound to a protein molecule which will increase its absorbability from the intestine. Calcium carbonate from crushed oyster shells or dolomite is poorly absorbed. Calcium and magnesium citrate, gluconate, lactate, etc ... are better sources.

It's better to divide the Cal-Mag into smaller doses through the day, with the final dose at bedtime .. -- rather than one large dose at once (better absorption). Most supplements contain 333 mg calcium and 167 mg magnesium; 2 or 3 tablets a day should do the trick, depending on other sources of calcium in your diet.

Potassium is another important mineral. Especially with mentioning fluid retention ... does he have a touch o' high blood pressure too?? Adults need 1500 to 2000 mg per day of potassium, and unless he's eating tons of fruits and vegetables, there's a good chance he's "down a quart". The least expensive way to get extra potassium is to use a salt substitute, which you can buy in any grocery store right next to the regular salt. There's a product called Half Salt, which is obviously half salt, half potassium, but does have added sugar. Or, there's a product called No Salt, which is pure potassium. It's more expensive, around $4, but a canister will last a long time. I mix it with pure sea salt, for use at the table ... and it works just fine in cooking and recipes. If you don't use the salt shaker much ,,, what I do is stir 1/8 tsp of the pure No Salt into a glass of water. Drink it down. You can barely taste it (it's salty) 1/8 tsp is 320 mg potassium, or about the amount in a large banana. I take it twice a day. It will help relieve the fluid retention, especially if he drinks it with a full glass of water.

I think that supplementing these important minerals will help immensely, without the need for other herbs or drugs ..

NOTE - persons with severe kidney disease, or taking certain blood pressure medications (ACE inhibitors - captopril, enalapril) should discuss taking potassium supplements with their health care provider first.

Doreen
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Wed, Mar-05-03, 13:46
Ruralgurl's Avatar
Ruralgurl Ruralgurl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 437
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 225/190.5/150 Female 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: British Columbia
Default Magnesia Tablets

Hi Doreen T
First off, Thanks very much for all of your very informative posts.
I hope it is ok to revive these older posts that I find through my searches, I think it is better than asking the same old questions again and again.
I have taken Cal/Mag for years for restless legs at night. It does help me sleep and helps my legs. I try to watch my potassiaum as well and switched to No-Salt. I was having trouble with water retention and saw a post by Nat and realized I was getting too much sodium. Then I read apost about upping your Magnesium as well so I started searching.
My legs were really bothering me last night, even before I went to bed. I am recuperating this week from surgery and I thought it is probably all the laying around!
So my Cal/Mag did not seem to work the night before and it crossed my mind that I may have some Milk of Magnesia on hand!
I found Phillips Magnesia tablets. These contain magnesium hydroxide 310 mg per tablet. They helped the jittery legs but I am wondering if this is a good choice, is this form digestible? They don't say but I think they may contain sugar as well! I will go out and get a better supplement soon.
A thought, I realize that Cal /Mag should be a 2-1 ratio but wouldn't the fact that we are consuming more calcium through food throw that ratio off?
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Fri, Mar-07-03, 11:33
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,228
 
Plan: LC paleo
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

hi there Ruralgirl,

I checked the Bayer website (makers of Phillips MOM products) and yes, the chewable tablets do contain sucrose sugar, cornstarch and dextrates (probably maltodextrin) which are all carbs. So definitely not a good idea to use as a supplement ... reserve these for their intended use, which is as occasional laxative or antacid/heartburn relief.

Magnesium tends to have laxative side effects in any form, so combining it with calcium is a good idea. Not only do these two minerals work synergistically, the calcium (which can be a bit constipating on its own) will balance the laxative effect of the mag.

For some health conditions, or for a diagnosed magnesium deficiency, then a person might consider taking extra mag. or using a combined cal:mag supplement in 1:1 ratio, instead of 2:1. Most calcium supplements are incompletely absorbed (despite the glorious claims of some about certain calcium products ).

Persons with kidney disease should not take magnesium supplements or use magnesium-based laxatives or antacids without consulting their dr. or pharmacist. Magnesium can build up to toxic levels in these persons.

hth,

Doreen
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Fri, Mar-07-03, 11:36
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,228
 
Plan: LC paleo
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Ruralgurl
Hi Doreen T
First off, Thanks very much for all of your very informative posts.
I hope it is ok to revive these older posts that I find through my searches, I think it is better than asking the same old questions again and again.
I'm always pleased to see when some previous information that I've researched and written, or others have taken the time to write .. proves to be helpful for someone down the line. Glad to help!!

Doreen
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Leg Cramps?? T-GCayman Newbies' Questions 6 Fri, Dec-05-03 14:52
Potassium, Calcium and Magnesium Xena2005 Newbies' Questions 4 Mon, Nov-10-03 08:17
question on potassium supplementation equestrian Protein Power 2 Sat, Feb-22-03 04:47
potassium lindy General Health 12 Thu, Oct-11-01 14:47
Vitamins KatVW Nutrition & Supplements 11 Sun, Aug-05-01 02:46


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 23:52.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.