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  #1   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 09:01
Skamito's Avatar
Skamito Skamito is offline
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Posts: 2,315
 
Plan: Atkins (Pre-Maintenance)
Stats: 160/135/130 Female 5'5"
BF:35%/28%/22%
Progress: 83%
Location: New York, NY
Post Pounds Lost on Atkins Diet May Quickly Return- New York Times Article

Pounds Lost on Atkins Diet May Quickly Return
By JANE E. BRODY

link to NY Times article- registration required

The Atkins diet gained a modicum of respectability this month when scientists reported that two clinical trials found the high-fat, high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet did not cause disastrous increases in serum cholesterol and even reduced one or two cardiac risk factors.

The studies, reported in The New England Journal of Medicine, compared the effects on weight loss and cardiovascular risk factors of the Atkins plan with the conventional low-fat, low-calorie diet recommended by most health experts. Both diets resulted in weight loss, but participants on the Atkins diet lost more weight, faster.

But it is too soon to jump on the Atkins bandwagon in hopes of achieving bathing-suit slimness by the Fourth of July. Yes, the diet does help obese people lose weight quickly, and those wanting to shed 10 pounds in the next four weeks could achieve that goal. But the research suggested that by Labor Day many, if not most, are likely to be back to their starting weight.

The first five to seven pounds lost on Atkins are not fat but water, released by the body when it gets little or no starch or sugar from food. So as soon as you are unable to resist that bun with your burger or summer's succulent sweet corn, a cooling ice cream cone, thirst-quenching watermelon or a bag of fries, those lost pounds are likely to come bounding back.

Neither of the new studies was designed to determine either long-term safety or effectiveness of this regimen, which puts foods like bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes, corn, bananas, winter squash, dried beans and peas, cereal and, of course, ice cream, cake, cookies, pies, sweet rolls, doughnuts, candy and bagels on the don't-eat-them list and suggests instead indulging in bacon and eggs, steaks and cheese, cream (but not milk) and butter instead.

The predictions were that this diet would spell disaster for the heart and blood vessels. But the new studies showed for the first time in randomized clinical trials that there may be some cardiovascular benefits to this high-fat weight-loss regimen.

As expected when people lose weight, cholesterol levels did not rise (indeed, they fell in some participants) and, as expected when the diet contains little sugar and refined starches, triglyceride levels fell. Insulin sensitivity also improved — again, no surprise when limited carbohydrates are consumed.

Perhaps the only surprise finding among Atkins participants was a rise in the so-called good cholesterol, protective H.D.L.'s, which may indicate that the body compensates for a diet rich in saturated fats and cholesterol by producing more of the substance that helps to keep arteries clear of fatty deposits.

What Is and Isn't Known

As noted in the editorial accompanying the reports, the two studies, which involved obese or severely obese participants, were short-term. (One lasted six months and the other a year.)

About 40 percent of the participants dropped out of the studies and were lost to follow-up. In other weight-reduction studies, dropouts are usually people who fail to lose weight or regain their initial losses. It nearly always means that they did not stay on the assigned diet.

Among those who did stay in the programs, the differences in the amount of weight lost on the two diets were not drastic and, in the one-year study, those following Atkins started gaining weight back after six months, resulting in no significant weight-loss differences between the two diets by the end of the year.

Atkins advocates are fond of blaming the push for low-fat diets for the astronomical rise in obesity among Americans in the last 20 years. They say that as people spurned fats they turned to carbohydrates instead and started gaining weight. But three facts must be noted:

Americans are not eating less fat; rather, per capita consumption of fat has risen by 10 pounds a year since 1973. All things being equal (which they are not), this alone would result in an average of 11 more pounds than people weighed 30 years ago.

Americans are also eating more carbohydrates, but not the whole grains, fruits and vegetables that weight-control experts and health promoters recommend. They are eating far more sugars (20 pounds more per capita since 1975, another 10 pounds of body weight) and more refined starches as they overindulge in fat-free or low-fat cakes, crackers and so on.

Americans are eating more calories, which is the real cause of weight gain. That is why the percentage of calories from fat has fallen while total fat intake has not.

These dietary changes have been accompanied by an overall decline in physical activity. In other words, we are consuming more calories and burning fewer. That is why we have an obesity epidemic.

A final — and critically important — unknown remains the long-term safety of a diet rich in saturated fats and relatively limited in the whole grains, fruits and vegetables that countless studies have linked to reduced rates of heart disease, stroke and cancer, the nation's leading killers.

No Diet Fits All

It is perhaps worth noting that the precipitous gain in the numbers of obese and overweight people has occurred during the 30 years since Dr. Robert Atkins, who died on April 17, first published his "diet revolution." Since the diet's resurgence in recent years, there has been no notable turnaround.

Recent studies have strongly suggested that carbohydrate-rich, low-fat diets with only modest amounts of protein may be less effective in achieving and maintaining weight loss. Fat and protein are digested more slowly than carbohydrates and may delay the return of hunger.

Also, while it may be easy to overeat or binge on cake or cookies, few people can consume large quantities of steak, burgers without buns and unsweetened whipped cream.

That is why, as the new studies show, Atkins adherents eat fewer calories than they did before starting the diet, and it is this calorie reduction that accounts for their weight loss.

If you want to try a diet that many experts concerned about both weight and health now recommend, it should contain about 25 percent of calories from fats primarily from vegetable sources like olive, canola and nut oils, avocados, beans, nut butters, nuts and seeds, along with fish and lean red meats and poultry adding up to about 20 to 25 percent of calories from protein.

Rounding out this diet are whole grains and ample amounts of vegetables and fruits. On this less restrictive diet, the weight loss may be slower than with Atkins, but it is more likely to stick.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 09:14
mrfreddy's Avatar
mrfreddy mrfreddy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 761
 
Plan: common sense low carb
Stats: 221/190/175 Male 6 feet
BF:27/13/10??
Progress: 67%
Location: New York City
Default

I'm kinda mystified by this recent study that reports that the weight loss is only temporary, since I've been on this diet for almost a year, and the weight hasn't come back at all... and I am still eating plenty!

also, just want to mention that I think that this Jane Brody person has been a low-fat advocate for years, she isn't about to give up her dogmatic point of view any time soon....
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 09:30
Skamito's Avatar
Skamito Skamito is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,315
 
Plan: Atkins (Pre-Maintenance)
Stats: 160/135/130 Female 5'5"
BF:35%/28%/22%
Progress: 83%
Location: New York, NY
Default

Mr. Freddy,

The point is that the weight comes back on after you go off the "diet." Most of us here are trying to follow the good doctor's instruction to never go off it! Of course you're going to gain back the weight. Duh.

This article is unfortunately just another example of one loaded with misconceptions. They're good to read though, because it helps us to be more prepared to defend it against this ignorance.

Examples:
Atkins restricts vegetables?! NOT A CHANCE.
Weight comes back as soon as you are unable to resist carbs? Well, of course the weight will come back on. Doesn't the same happen when you eat fatty foods on a low-fat regimen? Lots of sugar on a low-fat regimen? Isn't that just common sense?
Not to mention that Atkins gives many of us the control to resist carbs more often than not.

My personal favorite is how she mentions that calories are to blame right after stating that Americans are eating more simple sugars. Hmmm.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 09:43
Groggy60's Avatar
Groggy60 Groggy60 is offline
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Posts: 486
 
Plan: IF/Low carb
Stats: 219/201/172 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default

What I find amazing about the study is that they must of found a bunch of people that did not really want to loose weight to do Atkins. If they wanted to loose weight, they would have kept up with the diet to some degree and continued to loose weight after a year. I can't imagine ever eating bread and sugar the way I used to.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 09:43
mrfreddy's Avatar
mrfreddy mrfreddy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 761
 
Plan: common sense low carb
Stats: 221/190/175 Male 6 feet
BF:27/13/10??
Progress: 67%
Location: New York City
Default

skamito,

that's not how I read it, it appears from this study that even those who apparently stuck with the diet gained the wt. back:

"Among those who did stay in the programs, the differences in the amount of weight lost on the two diets were not drastic and, in the one-year study, those following Atkins started gaining weight back after six months, resulting in no significant weight-loss differences between the two diets by the end of the year."

there must be an explanation - from my own experience, and from those people I know personally that are following this diet, not to mention dozens and dozens of people on this message board, this is not a typical result.

anyway, Jane Brody just trots out the usual suspects when it comes to knocking the atkins diet, which are:

it's a low calorie diet in disguise...
it's just water weight....
no long term studies on health effects....
don't get to eat all those super healthy fruits and vegetables...

yawn.....
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 10:27
Skamito's Avatar
Skamito Skamito is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,315
 
Plan: Atkins (Pre-Maintenance)
Stats: 160/135/130 Female 5'5"
BF:35%/28%/22%
Progress: 83%
Location: New York, NY
Default

Ugh, you're right MrFreddy, I misread that. Um, why don't I believe her?!?

I have been following the plan for 8 months now. There's no way I've gained any weight back, especially when I stick to what's allowed. I'm interested in the meal plans, because I'm inclined to believe that you might gain weight eating "unlimited amounts of fatty meats, cheeses, and cream" as is the perception of Atkins. Yes, there is a metabolic advantage, but it doesn't outweigh the idea of a person my size, for instance, eating 5000 calories a day.

But, as long as they get the results they want as an excuse to condemn low carb with the Atkins name, more power to 'em, right?
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 10:45
gotbeer's Avatar
gotbeer gotbeer is offline
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Posts: 2,889
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 280/203/200 Male 69 inches
BF:
Progress: 96%
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Default

I read it as both diets lasting 6 months, but one study did a follow-up at 1 year among those that lasted the first 6 months. That would explain the regained pounds in the 1-year study - if some of the 6-month dieters fell off the wagon in the 2nd 6 months.

We'll have to see the actual text of the studies to see what really happened, and that won't be freely available for another 6 months.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 11:42
mrfreddy's Avatar
mrfreddy mrfreddy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 761
 
Plan: common sense low carb
Stats: 221/190/175 Male 6 feet
BF:27/13/10??
Progress: 67%
Location: New York City
Default

yeah, and meanwhile, the common perception amoungst the uninfomred becomes "you gain it all back" on Atkins...

oh well....
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 12:47
DebPenny's Avatar
DebPenny DebPenny is offline
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Posts: 1,514
 
Plan: TSP/PPLP/low-cal/My own
Stats: 250/209/150 Female 63.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Sacramento, CA
Default The article, of course, got it all wrong!

Quote:
It is perhaps worth noting that the precipitous gain in the numbers of obese and overweight people has occurred during the 30 years since Dr. Robert Atkins, who died on April 17, first published his "diet revolution." Since the diet's resurgence in recent years, there has been no notable turnaround.
Including this incredible comment.

She makes it sound like all dieters are on Atkins so it is now to be blamed for America's ballooning weight problem. I'll bet the good doctor rolled over in his grave on this one.

;-Deb
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 14:10
cc48510 cc48510 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,018
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 320/220/195 Male 6'0"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Pensacola, FL
Default Re: Pounds Lost on Atkins Diet May Quickly Return- New York Times Article

Quote:
Originally posted by Skamito
The Atkins diet gained a modicum of respectability this month when scientists reported that two clinical trials found the high-fat, high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet did not cause disastrous increases in serum cholesterol and even reduced one or two cardiac risk factors.


It is not Hi-Protein people...

Quote:
...So as soon as you are unable to resist that bun with your burger or summer's succulent sweet corn, a cooling ice cream cone, thirst-quenching watermelon or a bag of fries, those lost pounds are likely to come bounding back.


Watermelon is allowed in moderation on OWL and later. I believe Corn is allowed Pre-Maintnance and later. Ever heard of Low Carb Ice Cream ? I don't personally care for LeCarb, but alot of people seem to love it. If all else fails, it isn't very hard to make your own Low-Carb Ice Cream.

Quote:
Neither of the new studies was designed to determine either long-term safety or effectiveness of this regimen, which puts foods like bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes, corn, bananas, winter squash, dried beans and peas, cereal and, of course, ice cream, cake, cookies, pies, sweet rolls, doughnuts, candy and bagels on the don't-eat-them list and suggests instead indulging in bacon and eggs, steaks and cheese, cream (but not milk) and butter instead.


Most can be added back in moderation during Pre-Maintance. Only a few can't. There are LC alternatives for several of the foods listed.

Quote:
About 40 percent of the participants dropped out of the studies and were lost to follow-up. In other weight-reduction studies, dropouts are usually people who fail to lose weight or regain their initial losses. It nearly always means that they did not stay on the assigned diet.


I don't get this part...most people (including myself) can stick to a Low-Fat/Low-Calorie diet for 6 months if they are really trying. Atkins can be done for life if you have even a shred of will power. These folks obviously weren't really trying to lose weight.

Quote:
Among those who did stay in the programs, the differences in the amount of weight lost on the two diets were not drastic...


The difference was 61% if I remember correctly. In terms of hard numbers, the pound difference was rather small...mainly because both groups had lost so little. But, the percentage difference was very significant.

Quote:
Americans are not eating less fat; rather, per capita consumption of fat has risen by 10 pounds a year since 1973. All things being equal (which they are not), this alone would result in an average of 11 more pounds than people weighed 30 years ago.


It shouldn't suprise anyone that, the the mid-70s to mid-80s corresponds to the lowest fat intake in history: 89g. Current fat intake is 101g...exactly correlating to the 10 pound increase she states. But, omitted is that in the decade before then, fat intake dropped over 40 pounds (139 --> 89g) while obesity and heart disease rates did not drop but rather continued to increase. Overall, compared against 1965, we are eating 30 pounds less fat a year.

Quote:
Americans are also eating more carbohydrates, but not the whole grains, fruits and vegetables that weight-control experts and health promoters recommend. They are eating far more sugars (20 pounds more per capita since 1975, another 10 pounds of body weight) and more refined starches as they overindulge in fat-free or low-fat cakes, crackers and so on.


Carb intake has gone up by 75g a day since 1965...If her numbers are correct, that would mean sugar consumption is up 25g a day. That number seems awfully low. But, nonetheless, if correct...where are the other 50g coming from ??? There are only sugars, starches, and fibers. Fibers don't contribute calories...leaving only sugar and starch. If sugars only account for 33% of the increase, then starches (Breads, Potatoes, and Cereals) must account for the other 66%.

Quote:
Americans are eating more calories, which is the real cause of weight gain. That is why the percentage of calories from fat has fallen while total fat intake has not.


Compared to the mid-70s to mid-80s ??? But, men are actually eating a few hundred less calories than they were in 1965. Women's caloric intake has gone up less than 100 calories since 1965.

In addition, it should be noted that these numbers are reflective of most of this century. Fat intake only went down when it was demonized in the early 70s. It went back up in the late 80s, which is why LF advocates love to use the 70s/80s as a comparison point...If they were being honest, they'd use a point in the 60s or earlier. But, that wouldn't help their case.

Quote:
A final — and critically important — unknown remains the long-term safety of a diet rich in saturated fats and relatively limited in the whole grains, fruits and vegetables that countless studies have linked to reduced rates of heart disease, stroke and cancer, the nation's leading killers.


Unkown ??? What's she smoking ??? Atkins has been around since the early 70s. Most folks ate alot of Saturated Fat and little in the way of Refined carbs up until the middle of this century. And, you know what...they were a hell of alot healthier also.

Quote:
It is perhaps worth noting that the precipitous gain in the numbers of obese and overweight people has occurred during the 30 years since Dr. Robert Atkins, who died on April 17, first published his "diet revolution." Since the diet's resurgence in recent years, there has been no notable turnaround.


Most people didn't even know what Atkins was until this year. I didn't hear about it all until the late 90s. I didn't know what it was until a friend explained it at the end of last year. It didn't really experience its major resurgance until only a few months ago. You cannot expect major results that quickly.

Quote:
Recent studies have strongly suggested that carbohydrate-rich, low-fat diets with only modest amounts of protein may be less effective in achieving and maintaining weight loss. Fat and protein are digested more slowly than carbohydrates and may delay the return of hunger.

Also, while it may be easy to overeat or binge on cake or cookies, few people can consume large quantities of steak, burgers without buns and unsweetened whipped cream.

That is why, as the new studies show, Atkins adherents eat fewer calories than they did before starting the diet, and it is this calorie reduction that accounts for their weight loss.

If you want to try a diet that many experts concerned about both weight and health now recommend, it should contain about 25 percent of calories from fats primarily from vegetable sources like olive, canola and nut oils, avocados, beans, nut butters, nuts and seeds, along with fish and lean red meats and poultry adding up to about 20 to 25 percent of calories from protein.

Rounding out this diet are whole grains and ample amounts of vegetables and fruits. On this less restrictive diet, the weight loss may be slower than with Atkins, but it is more likely to stick.


Here she shows her true bias. She outright admits a LC/HF diet is good for you, but is still pushing a HC/LF diet.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 15:12
captxray captxray is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 354
 
Plan: Neanderthin
Stats: 269/176/165 Male 68"
BF:55+%/23%/15%
Progress: 89%
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon
Talking What a joke...in a couched way

All I can say is that I feel better than I have ever felt in my life...I have lean body tissue that I didn't know I could ever have on THIS body! I have been on the "diet" for almost two years and am still waiting to put on all that "extra weight" I lost. I am stable and eat whatever I want each day...LOTS of FRUIT and VEGGIES...so, I don't know what this lady is talking about...NOT Atkins, that's for sure. If you want a timed study, look at my stats! Now, just to be fair, I'm on a "paleo" diet; not the classic ATKINS, but it is high protein, low carbohydrate...just like the good Doctor's. I don't eat ANY grains or Milk...don't miss them, at all...have no cravings to go back to the old ways...I don't see this as needing much in the way of "will-power," either. I have NO desire to go back to that old way of eating. I feel so good, why would I want to mess that up with all of that crap i used to eat and feel so lousey with? I went on WW and was on it for three years. Lost a lot of weight and GAINED it all back, and then some, once I couldn't stand it, any longer. Why? 'Cause I still CRAVED the "forbidden fruits" of the diet. Now, I have NO CRAVINGS, so that isn't even a factor. In fact, the food my wife makes for herself, sometimes makes me ill just to smell it and watch her eat it. She's one of those "unconvinced" people who will NEVER be convinced. So is my mom, who just had her first heart attack...even though she has been on a low cholesterol diet for YEARS. SOME PEOPLE WILL NEVER BE CONVINCED. The lady, who wrote this very biased article, is one of them. But, I'm not going to waste my time worrying about these people who ignorantly insist on being stupid. I know how I feel. I know how I look. I know what I can do now, that I couldn't before...like making the 22 year old kid I work with pant and huff trying to keep up with me at work! HA! HA! He actually told me to slow down the other day so he could keep up with me...I just told that story to some ladies from work and they couldn't wait to get out of my classroom (I'm a school teacher during the day and a Home Depot "Garden Guy" at night)...they see me as a zealot...I am...and they don't want to believe that this "diet" works. Why? Because they are addicted to the wrong kinds of food and WON'T give it up, even if it kills them...That's Human nature, I guess. Dr. Atkins had the right idea. He was and is RIGHT. But, being people, we have the right to be stupid and WRONG, if we so choose.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 16:21
EvaLovejoy EvaLovejoy is offline
New Member
Posts: 2
 
Plan: Atkins, baby!
Stats: 210/185/110
BF:
Progress: 25%
Angry

Grr, people are so ignorant!

If you treat it like a "diet" than you'll gain the weight back. If you use your new knowledge and understanding of food and the body, then you'll change the way you eat forever and most likely not have a weight problem again.

Quote:
quote: It is perhaps worth noting that the precipitous gain in the numbers of obese and overweight people has occurred during the 30 years since Dr. Robert Atkins, who died on April 17, first published his "diet revolution." Since the diet's resurgence in recent years, there has been no notable turnaround.


Other things that happened in the last 30 years:

1) Cable tv
2) Internet
3) Video game systems
4) More and more refined junk food on the market

But there's no way that our far more plugged in modern world where you don't need to expel much energy to do much of -anything- couldn't have anything to do with more overweight people? No, of course not...

XXXXXX Eva

Last edited by EvaLovejoy : Tue, May-27-03 at 16:28.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 16:48
captxray captxray is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 354
 
Plan: Neanderthin
Stats: 269/176/165 Male 68"
BF:55+%/23%/15%
Progress: 89%
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon
Talking Excellent!

Excellent point, EvaLovejoy!!!
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 19:22
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Good point, Eva!

I don't think that there is any one cause of the obesity epidemic that we are currently seeing. Increased availability and affordability of junk foods, increased portion sizes, decreasing activity levels all play a part as well as the insulin resistance that a high carb diet promotes.
Interestingly enough, exercise does help decrease insulin resistance but there comes a point where even exercise can't overcome the high levels of carbs and you start seeing all sorts of things go haywire in the body...heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, bloodwork off kilter, etc...with or without weight gain.
I was just watching a program on PBS tonight where they had a fairly young (30-something) guy having a treadmill test. He was thin, fit and ran marathons as a hobby. His problem? High cholesterol and they were testing him for heart disease.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, May-27-03, 19:53
cc48510 cc48510 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,018
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 320/220/195 Male 6'0"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Pensacola, FL
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Lisa N
Interestingly enough, exercise does help decrease insulin resistance but there comes a point where even exercise can't overcome the high levels of carbs and you start seeing all sorts of things go haywire in the body...heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, bloodwork off kilter, etc...with or without weight gain.


I know what you mean...I exercised quite a bit when I was first putting the weight on. I found this online the other day:

Quote:
Roselie Bradford (b. 1944) of Sellersville, PA; 5 ft 6 in, measured at 1053 lbs, but estimates that she weighed more than 1200 lbs at her peak two years earlier, a claim accepted by Guinness.

Already over 300 lbs when she dropped out of college, Bradford became an exercise instructor, running seven miles three times a week, but continued her steady gain in weight. At 374 lbs she underwent an intestinal bypass operation, which caused serious complications. She was back to 350 lbs when she married her husband Bob in 1973, reached 500 lbs after the birth of her son, and as her body grew, so did her appetite.

After contracting septicemia in the early 1980s, she spent most of the next decade in bed, eating - as much as 15,000 calories per day. It wasn't unusual for her to put away three large pizzas in 40 minutes (washing them down with diet soda), then ask for dessert.

At her peak, she measured eight feet wide, and took up two reinforced king-size beds. Her bustline measured over 100 inches, and her hips carried 200-lb "saddlebags" that hung down her thighs as far as her knees. "People would visit me and sit on the bed, not realizing they were sitting on part of me," she recalled. When she fell out of bed, rescue workers used an inflatable cushion designed to right overturned cars to get her back into place.

After being treated for symptoms of heart failure, she was eventually persuaded by Richard Simmons to embark on a five year diet, an experience she described as hellish. Tortured by hunger, by fast-food commercials, and by dreams in which she ate without limit, she nevertheless got down to under 300 pounds, setting a world's record for weight loss. She later sued the Star tabloid for suggesting that she couldn't have intimate relations with her husband at over half a ton.
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