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  #166   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 13:18
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
C is not the only antiscorbitic substance, since a diet of just red meat prevents scurvy (the Inuit diet).
Bear, could you please explain this? Thanks. And, I think you meant "antiscorbutic", right? What other antiscorbutic substances are there?
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  #167   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 13:47
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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I found this on the web.

Anyone ever heard of this?

Quote:
In 1928, a young Hungarian Dr. Albert Szent-Gyorgi was investigating oxygen reductase factors. One that he discovered in food he aptly named hexuronic acid based upon its actual structure and substance. It was only a mild oxygen reductase factor so he tossed it aside.

In 1931 Hoffman-La Roche (now just called Roche) came to him and said they had a cheap process to synthesize that substance and wanted to find a way to make money with it.

Making a long story short they rigged a study to "prove" that substance was "vitamin" 'C'. Part of the rigged study was with lemons.

The 'C' in "vitamin" 'C' stands for CON.

It should be of interest that Szent-Gyorgi later admitted that the "ascorbic acid" was not in fact the anti-scurvy substance it was claimed to be but by then nobody would listen.

The alleged "vitamin" identified as 'C', ascorbic acid, and the antiscorbutic factor is an innocuous portion of food that serves as a treatment in some -- though not all -- instances for scurvy and other conditions and functions.

There is NOTHING that "vitamin" 'C' accomplishes as a primary need. It is only a secondary or back-up substance. EVERYTHING credited to "vitamin" 'C' is actually accomplished by other means more readily and simply.

Furthermore, in larger quantities it is actually an immune suppressant.

There is a reason that humans do not produce their own "vitamin" 'C'. It is not a genetic defect. It is a superior design.
This make sense, considering many humans would not have had any dietary source of "vitamin" 'C' for much of their existence.

Is there any wonder as to why people are trying to find out what is appropriate nutrition for humans... based on what we evolved on, rather than what scientists (charlatans) tell (sell) us?!

Sorry to be the cynic, but that's always been my reason for trying to find this out!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Thu, Mar-02-06 at 14:58.
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  #168   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 14:09
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duparc
It would, however, be nice to know of the credentials that places you in the position of authority to relate in the manner that you do.
Dude, he was the soundman for the Dead!

Duparc, you really need to "light up or leave it alone"!
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  #169   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 14:33
Kestrel Kestrel is offline
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Posts: 214
 
Plan: low carb
Stats: -/-/- Male 5'10
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You only need about 5 to 7 mgs of vitamin C daily to prevent scurvy. Thats easily obtainable from liver, cod roe, and similar foods. Most organ meats contain vitamin C to some degree.
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  #170   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 14:36
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MissSherry MissSherry is offline
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Posts: 3,066
 
Plan: M&E Maintenance <5carbs
Stats: 170/109.5/115 Female 5'1"-5'2" w/ shoes
BF:31.1%/21.3%/19%
Progress: 110%
Location: By the beach in Florida
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duparc
Am I detecting a contradiction in what you are saying Bear? Surely not; yet in your first post you mention about your long-term dietary effect on your body and of how you have a body of a 30 year old and that you're skin remains young and elastic; and now you say that you suffer from cancer. It does not sound from this distance that your diet has done you any good so, meantime, probably permanently, I'll give your dietary recommendations a very wide berth indeed. It would, however, be nice to know of the credentials that places you in the position of authority to relate in the manner that you do.


Do you realize babies are born with cancer? It is not just an infliction of the old or unhealthy. I myself have battled breast and uterine. Your post was belittling and deameaning
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  #171   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 16:14
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick
I pray, hope, and would even give away 1/4 of my soul for any kind of empirical scientific research stipulating that plant food consumption isn't necessary for optimal health.
Frederick, just curious. Have you read "Life Without Bread"?
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  #172   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 17:00
theBear theBear is offline
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Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
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Thanks, folks- for the defense. It IS getting a bit wearing. If a person has nothing real to say, it is best to keep the mouth shut.

No-one knows exactly what the syndrome called scurvy is, but a simple diet of raw (or lightly cooked) meat completely prevents it.

I think people need to recognise that medicine is not a science, but an art, and is based on observations plus a very conservative approach.

The profession of the 'dietitian' is even less scientific, and is basically an organised attempt to justify the common modern diet by various means, such as the 'food pyramid'.

You do not need science to heal, nor to find what works in life. The longer the experience with any given path (like diet) which works, the more likely it is to be right, research or no research.

Cancer has not been shown to be connected to diet- the scare over colon cancer and meat content was related to a mixed diet, and the research is now considered suspect..

A few cancers have been shown to be connected to viruses, and those of the skin with UV exposure in a susceptible individual, but most causes are still mysterious. My developing of the specific kind of cancer was considered very unusual, and I agreed to participate in a project which is looking for causes other than alcohol and tobacco. A sample of normal tissue was taken, as well as cancerous, and I was told they suspect something concerning DNA may hold the key.
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  #173   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 17:17
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Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
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Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleoDeano
Dude, he was the soundman for the Dead!

Duparc, you really need to "light up or leave it alone"!


"Some folks look for answers, others look for fights" would be the more band appropriate lyric.
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  #174   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 18:07
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Duparc Duparc is offline
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Plan: self-designed
Stats: 216/189/190 Male tad under 6'
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Kirriemuir, Scotland
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That's right Rob I am searching for answers which only Bear can provide but, he is opting not to do so and he is currently hiding behind the rise in sympathy. If he has nothing to hide, why then the reluctance to be candid?
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  #175   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 18:15
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
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Did I understand that there is someone who wishes answers (to unasked questions)? Plese define the questions. Oh, and also, please define exactly what you mean when you use the word 'candid'. I may have a different dictionary than you do.
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  #176   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 18:21
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BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,793
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
The profession of the 'dietitian' is even less scientific, and is basically an organised attempt to justify the common modern diet by various means, such as the 'food pyramid'.

Before I discovered the LC way of eating, I had gained 20 pounds over the course of a summer by eating high-carb/low-fat (a ala Jane Brody). I went to a dietician who advised me to eat the same things every day. For example, she told me to eat a bologna sandwich every day for lunch with an apple.

How can you argue with something so self-evident and logical?

Doh!

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  #177   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 20:38
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TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
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Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Did I understand that there is someone who wishes answers (to unasked questions)? Plese define the questions.


You had massive struggles abandoning the "civilized diet", and you believed that this was due to acculturation. Could you describe this acculturation? And better yet: Could you theorize on why this acculturation exists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBear
Oh, and also, please define exactly what you mean when you use the word 'candid'. I may have a different dictionary than you do.


I define candid as:

1. answered here

2. low screed value and high evidence/logical/rational value.
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  #178   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 20:47
Rob21370's Avatar
Rob21370 Rob21370 is offline
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Posts: 225
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 336/297/140 Male 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 20%
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
Before I discovered the LC way of eating, I had gained 20 pounds over the course of a summer by eating high-carb/low-fat (a ala Jane Brody). I went to a dietician who advised me to eat the same things every day. For example, she told me to eat a bologna sandwich every day for lunch with an apple.

How can you argue with something so self-evident and logical?

Doh!



I remember years ago me and my wife did the whole Weight Watchers thing, to the point of having those little "food cards" that tell you how much you can eat in any day within a restricted calorie diet. I felt sorry for my wife since she actually gained weight, and I did lose about 5 pounds over the course of 2 weeks but I felt like I was dying. After 14 days I couldn't take it anymore, went into total panic mode, and I went to my parents house and ate a half a stick of salami!

Now with eating an all meat diet sometimes I'm really hungry and scarf out and sometimes, usually after the pig out day, I don't really eat much. I was getting scared too because about 3 weeks ago I was starting to hit the danger zone where my 50" pants were getting snug.
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  #179   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 20:56
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TarHeel TarHeel is offline
Give chance a chance
Posts: 16,944
 
Plan: General LC maintenance
Stats: 152.6/115.6/115 Female 60 inches
BF:28%
Progress: 98%
Location: North Carolina
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RE: Candid

As Gordon Lightfoot wrote:

Quote:
When you’re down in the dumps and not ready to deal
Decide what it is that you need
Is it money or love, is it learnin’ to live
Or is it the mouth you must feed
Be known as a man who will always be candid
On questions that do not relate
And the house you live in will never fall down
If you pity the stranger who stands at your gate



Which makes more sense than anything else I've read in this thread. I honestly don't know why I keep checking in here. Maybe I'm a closet masochist and have just outed myself.

Kay
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  #180   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-06, 22:16
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
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Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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But ya gotta love the mind trip! Even if it conjures up masochistic images for ya!
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