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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Jul-09-11, 06:24
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
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Posts: 2,544
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 265.4/238.8/199 Female 5'5.5"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Default Blood sugar questions

I hate asking really basic questions here, but here I go.

I listened to Jenny Ruhl's interview with Jimmy Moore two days ago and again yesterday. I decided to try her blood sugar testing to start learning how particular foods effect my blood sugar.

So yesterday after lunch I had the following 1- and 2-hour PBG: 163, 107. Dinner was 108, 130.

I felt great after lunch. Wasn't hungry or thinking about food.

I felt awful within an hour or so of dinner. By the time I went to bed almost 3 hours after dinner I was hungry, shaky, and dizzy.

Two questions:

Why is the second reading after dinner higher than the first?

Why did I feel so awful after dinner but great after lunch? Just looking at the numbers I would have predicted hypoglycemic like sensations from the huge drop after lunch.

Thanks for any input.
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Jul-10-11, 02:36
onebowl's Avatar
onebowl onebowl is offline
New Member
Posts: 12
 
Plan: Ketogenic Level Diet
Stats: 317/231.2/157 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Hawaii
Default

I often test higher at my 2nd and 3rd hour after eating. This is known as having a very slow emptying of the stomach. I cannot think off hand the proper term for it. There are so many variables, like how much fat was eaten in relation to the carbohydrate amount, which produces a slower rise in BG's, so just seeing the numbers doesn't tell the tale unless you reveal the foods eaten.

How you felt could also be the level of fat vs carbs. There are a lot of possibilities that can happen with the foods eaten and the resulting BG numbers, which include factors like stress and illness. So keep testing and keep good records of what you eat so that you can see a pattern of what happens when you eat certain foods. For instance, my husband can eat a hearty European bread that is so dense, but a slice of white french bread will make his BG's soar. I can't eat grains at all without a spike, yet 85% chocolate doesn't raise it hardly at all.

We are all sensitive to the sugars and starches in foods, it is important to test, test and test again until we know what affects the numbers and what doesn't.
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Jul-10-11, 06:47
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,544
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 265.4/238.8/199 Female 5'5.5"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Default

Thanks for responding, onebowl. After I posted this I went out into Internet land and learned similar things on other forums.

The lunch I had which made the 163 to 107 spike and drop was a salad bar salad. It's the same salad bar I've been eating at for years, but recently I've allowed myself small quantities of items I've been passing on for years. (Just discouraged because the weight loss stopped, and I was tired of sacrificing and not losing more weight for the sacrifice. ) There are a number of things in the salad which might have caused the rise: beans, pasta salad, tuna salad, cottage cheese. Those are the ones that jump to mind. I had a similar salad last night without the "bad guys" and had a hamburger with it, and my BG at 1 and 2 hours was 110 and 106 (98 right before the meal). The salad last night was also much smaller than the one I had for lunch two days ago.

The dinner that caused the slow rise that confused me was two poached eggs on rice and almond bread. That's all. I love poached eggs on toast and have missed that meal. (Not the same without the toast.) So recently I've been allowing a bit more carb into my diet, and one thing was a piece of bread for my poached eggs. Normally I don't eat this for dinner. I've never felt so crappy after eating it for breakfast. Maybe the cream and coconut oil in my morning coffee helps?

Anyway I feel empowered with this blood sugar testing. It's not something that non-diabetics usually do. Yesterday I went back to low-carb basics. I tested numerous times during the day, including 2 or 3 times after each meal and once before a meal. The highest number was the morning measurement of 118. All others were between 92 and 110.

I feel more in control. I'm going to keep trying other foods as you suggested. It gets expensive, but eventually I guess I'll learn what to eat and what to avoid and I can test less often.
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Jul-10-11, 07:47
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Depending on what you eat your stomach empties at different rates. I know fat slows things down, that's why fatty foods usually have lower glycemic indices.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jul-12-11, 13:50
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
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It can be frustrating sometimes. I've eaten meals of the *exact same thing in the exact same quantities* a couple days apart, and gotten sometimes up to 40 points difference in my BG values afterwards.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Jul-13-11, 19:07
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sollyb sollyb is offline
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Plan: modified Peat
Stats: 202/214/180 Female 62.5 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
It can be frustrating sometimes. I've eaten meals of the *exact same thing in the exact same quantities* a couple days apart, and gotten sometimes up to 40 points difference in my BG values afterwards.


Debbie,
The same thing happens to me. Also, I have neuropathy, and I've been trying to figure out if it is worse when BG readings are higher, and sometimes it is, sometimes not so much. Frustrating, and I really don't get that. I don't think this is meter error, as my meter readings are very consistent and two back to back readings are almost always exactly the same. I do have a couple of meters where back to back readings will vary hugely, and I no longer use those ones.
sol
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Jul-14-11, 05:12
leemack's Avatar
leemack leemack is offline
NEVER GIVING UP!
Posts: 5,030
 
Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
Stats: 478/354/200 Female 5' 9"
BF:excessive!!
Progress: 45%
Location: UK
Default

Not sure whether to say this, but I was taught that spikes above 150 are a sign of early pre diabetes. I'm not even sure if this is true, as I was taught it during nurse training nearly 20 years ago.

But starting to test your blood sugar now, is a great idea.

Lee
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Jul-14-11, 06:10
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
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Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
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Default

Also, if you want to know your overall state of affairs, ask your doctor to perform an HbA1c blood test. It gives you your average blood sugar over a period of 60-90 days. Ratings of 5.5 and under are non-diabetic; 6.5 and up = diabetic, and in between is pre-diabetic. Just learned about the pre-diabetic stuff myself, recently.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Jul-14-11, 07:51
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
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Posts: 2,544
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 265.4/238.8/199 Female 5'5.5"
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Progress: 40%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leemack
Not sure whether to say this, but I was taught that spikes above 150 are a sign of early pre diabetes. I'm not even sure if this is true, as I was taught it during nurse training nearly 20 years ago.

But starting to test your blood sugar now, is a great idea.

Lee


Thanks, Lee. I was diagnosed as prediabetic several years ago, but that went away on low carb. Possibly I'm moving (or have moved) back into that range as I've allowed more carbs in?

Things have improved hugely in the last few days since I've gone back to basics. I haven't seen anything over 110 in the last 4 days.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Jul-14-11, 07:56
leemack's Avatar
leemack leemack is offline
NEVER GIVING UP!
Posts: 5,030
 
Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
Stats: 478/354/200 Female 5' 9"
BF:excessive!!
Progress: 45%
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by costello22
Thanks, Lee. I was diagnosed as prediabetic several years ago, but that went away on low carb. Possibly I'm moving (or have moved) back into that range as I've allowed more carbs in?

Things have improved hugely in the last few days since I've gone back to basics. I haven't seen anything over 110 in the last 4 days.


That's great news - just shows how useful the testing can be.

Lee
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Jul-14-11, 08:26
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,544
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 265.4/238.8/199 Female 5'5.5"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonwtwindo
Also, if you want to know your overall state of affairs, ask your doctor to perform an HbA1c blood test. It gives you your average blood sugar over a period of 60-90 days. Ratings of 5.5 and under are non-diabetic; 6.5 and up = diabetic, and in between is pre-diabetic. Just learned about the pre-diabetic stuff myself, recently.


I have a physical scheduled for July 19. I know my doctor will order blood work that includes that.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Jul-14-11, 08:58
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
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Posts: 2,544
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 265.4/238.8/199 Female 5'5.5"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leemack
That's great news - just shows how useful the testing can be.


It really is. Since Saturday I've been basically following the same pattern. Breakfast is just coffee with cream and coconut oil. Dinner is a salad and meat. Fasting between. I've been checking my BG before dinner, 1 hour after, and 2 hours after.

Saturday and Sunday my BG was down to the low 90's before dinner. Monday (back to work) my BG was 109 before dinner. The difference is I chew Trident all day at work. So I cut the Trident, and my before dinner BG was 92 on Tuesday and 89 last night.

Possibly that's a fluke and I may try adding the Trident back in at some point to double check, but I really think it was effecting my blood sugar. It's interesting to me, because I've tried eliminating the Trident before but it didn't make me lose weight, so I figured it made no difference. Now I'm wondering if I just didn't leave off the Trident long enough in previous experiments. Maybe if I wait longer the weight will follow the blood sugar in time? Or maybe I'll have to be satisfied that lowering my blood sugar is a good thing independent of my weight.

I checked my fasting blood glucose this morning, and it was 109 which is lower than it has been for a long time.

Another interesting thing is that I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable when my blood sugar gets to these lower numbers - not really hypoglycemic, but weak and tired. I've read that the body can get used to higher blood sugars and when you succeed in lowering them, you may start feeling hypoglycemic even though you're nowhere near low enough in your blood sugar to actually qualify for hypoglycemia. If you persist you'll adapt to the lower numbers. It's useful to know this and to be able to see the numbers. It helps to just hold on and stay the course rather than giving in and eating.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Jul-14-11, 11:58
bonechew's Avatar
bonechew bonechew is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 425
 
Plan: Paleo/Atkins/low cal
Stats: 232/148/135 Female 62
BF:a lot
Progress: 87%
Location: Bay Area, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by costello22
Another interesting thing is that I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable when my blood sugar gets to these lower numbers - not really hypoglycemic, but weak and tired. I've read that the body can get used to higher blood sugars and when you succeed in lowering them, you may start feeling hypoglycemic even though you're nowhere near low enough in your blood sugar to actually qualify for hypoglycemia. If you persist you'll adapt to the lower numbers. It's useful to know this and to be able to see the numbers. It helps to just hold on and stay the course rather than giving in and eating.


When I started testing, I noticed I was having hypo feelings on BG 95. I should not be feeling hypo till it drops below 80. So yes, my body was giving me signals to eat sugar/carbs when my BG was getting near 95, which meant I kept my blood sugar above 100 most of the time. My body did not like being below 95 either.

I started Metformin. First couple of months I was very hypo even though Metformin was dropping my BG only 10 points.

I've been retraining my body to accept 85 as the new norm. When I get hypo, I drink a glass of warm water with a little salt in it and sit down. It passed quickly. Now it rarely happens.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Jul-14-11, 12:52
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,544
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 265.4/238.8/199 Female 5'5.5"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonechew
When I started testing, I noticed I was having hypo feelings on BG 95. I should not be feeling hypo till it drops below 80. So yes, my body was giving me signals to eat sugar/carbs when my BG was getting near 95, which meant I kept my blood sugar above 100 most of the time. My body did not like being below 95 either.

I started Metformin. First couple of months I was very hypo even though Metformin was dropping my BG only 10 points.

I've been retraining my body to accept 85 as the new norm. When I get hypo, I drink a glass of warm water with a little salt in it and sit down. It passed quickly. Now it rarely happens.


Thanks. This is very useful, and it confirms what I've read elsewhere. The first couple of times I felt this way, I wondered if that was happening. I had the darnedest time formulating a google search, but I finally found some threads on diabetes forums where people talked about having this experience when starting medications.

It's useful to have a time frame (a couple of months) in which to expect improvement and a strategy that might help (warm water with salt). I appreciate it.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Jul-15-11, 09:36
bonechew's Avatar
bonechew bonechew is offline
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Posts: 425
 
Plan: Paleo/Atkins/low cal
Stats: 232/148/135 Female 62
BF:a lot
Progress: 87%
Location: Bay Area, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
It can be frustrating sometimes. I've eaten meals of the *exact same thing in the exact same quantities* a couple days apart, and gotten sometimes up to 40 points difference in my BG values afterwards.


Yes. That's when I created a log sheet for every day. On that sheet I mark my stress level, from 1 to 10. I also write down how many hours of sleep I get, and did I wake up feeling refreshed (quality of sleep).

I've noticed that if I don't get a good quality 6 hours of sleep in, with very low stress levels, my FBG will be 20+ points higher - from the exact same foods eaten at the same time. Lack of sleep will also make the Metformin side effects come roaring in.

If I am under stress, then I need 8 hours or more of quality sleep or my BG numbers swing really high/low.

I also write down the times I eat my 3 meals. If I eat my dinner of protein/high fat later and later in the evening, then my FBG will be higher and higher in the morning. This showed me that I should eat my last meal earlier in the day- the earlier the better.

I am geeky, so I love to map out a test protocol. I've learned a lot how food affects me, how dairy makes me spike really high, how eating fat with anything that spikes me will smooth out the spike, how time of meal greatly affects BG, and how well I take care of myself (stress and sleep).
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