Bambi, with all your recent turmoil and needing to watch your blood sugars, maybe just bringing your food back to typical levels would be enough of a change at first.

People have taken Phinney & Volek's new book, written for Elite Athletes and think it is going to work for a petite senior. I wish they would instead read the previous book, The A&SLCLiving, and look at the OWL phase for a 5'6" women. It is 100g protein, 35g carbs and 96 g of Fat, for a total of 1400 calories. It does not go up to include 1500 calories just of fat until maintenance. If you want to lose weight, their example is only 860 calories from fat. Rebecca L has been trying nutritional ketosis for 4 weeks, and after 2 realized it was too much fat for her (how? she gained weight) and has cut back on fats. Maybe I'm just skeptical because I tried the Optimal Diet last July and packed on some pounds too..been there, done that.

Also look at Dukan...his attack phase like Stillman is only for 3-10 days, then you alternate all protein days with veggie/protein days.

Yes Jey, I agree. Certainly not ready to be so stringent. It just seems a little too overwhelming but cutting back has been okay. If that is enough to get the scale moving, yay! But at least am more aware of fat intake and calories and that is a good thing.

I think that the idea of low fat with Stillman is simply to get kcals low. There's no magic in "low fat" outside of that, as far as I can tell. The problem with high fat for SOME of us is that, if you don't happen to get a good deal of appetite suppression from low carb, then you're going to end up with a high kcal diet. And, you can only lose so much weight (if any, in some cases,) eating such high kcals. Fat is the easiest thing to lower to get kcals down considerably. While fat is necessary in the diet, large amounts are not, especially when the body has plenty of excess to utilize. So, if you can lower your fat intake enough to get kcals where you need them to be, then that should certainly be adequate.

For me, lowering fat as much as I've done has definitely meant more protein than the already pretty high amount of protein it already took to get me sated. But, it hasn't been an issue. I do realize that for some people (notably diabetics,) blood sugars may be an issue with a lot of protein. But, it's certainly not always the case, and probably not usually the case. If you haven't had an issue with unstable blood sugar from more protein, great! Keep on keeping good track of your numbers.

I know I've harped on this before, but I think we've oversimplified the issues surrounding protein intake to a point where people are so afraid of it that they end up dismissing/avoiding an option like higher protein and lower fat. There is a lot more that goes on with protein intake than the very simplistic "excess turns to glucose" story that's spread like wildfire. Sure, some will be converted to glucose. But, if you're eating very low carb, it's a GOOD thing that some will be converted to glucose. Your body DOES need some glucose, and if you're not getting what you need from diet, then gluconeogenesis is your friend (lifesaver, really.) There are other pathways for unused dietary protein, as well (not just gluconeogenesis.) And, glucagon plays a big role in counteracting insulin and keeping blood sugars stable. Glucagon is released when protein is eaten. I think some people have misrepresented the role of glucagon because it DOES increase blood sugar, but glucagon is a good thing. Yes, it raises blood sugar, but it raises blood sugar when blood sugar drops too low. That's a good thing. It's not as if it's raising it through the roof or something crazy like that. It's part of the process of stabilizing blood sugar to a normal, healthy level.

Thanks for explaining about yogurt. I make my own in a crock pot and strain for Greek Yogurt. So I will just use nonfat milk. It does not spike my blood sugar but then i eat 3/4 -1 cup of yogurt with two eggs for a smoothie. I could eat it all day every day it is so good with a little stevia and splenda. But then I would get too many carbs.

I think I finally start to understand this whole process. Thank you all for explaining it so well. This is an amazingly helpful thread.

The good thing about yogurt, particularly the Greek yogurt, is that the carbs on the label are typically higher by about 50% than the actual carb count. So, you're actually taking in fewer carbs than the label states. This is due to the live cultures consuming the lactose.

Thanks for the reminder Lab. I know there are less carbs but since I make my own I am not completely sure even though I did the math for how many carbs in the whey that gets removed. I hope nonfat is almost as good.

Oh and Lab, I heard Dr. John Briffa say that protein is more sateing... sateating... satieting.... FILLING!!... than fat or carbs. It was in his talk from the Low Carb Cruise on Jimmy Moore's site.

Blue, I am having 1T of cream in two of my cups of coffee too. For any others I use 1/2 scoop of vanilla whey protein drink.

Thanks for the explanation Lab. Yes, I kind of freaked that protein turned to glucose. Maybe it was explained before but all I saw was that if you eat too much blood sugars will spike. Saw yesterday that that did not happen. Now I know why.

Yeah...it's one of those YMMV things. Some people (particularly some diabetics) will see spikes, but not all. So, it's quite wise for you to test carefully with any dietary change. Honestly, until I started looking into it a little bit more, all I'd ever read on most forums was "excess protein will turn to glucose and get stored as fat." Period. End of story. No alternative. Well, turns out to not necessarily be so.

Yes, for a good many people, it is. I think we forget this because there is such a push to use fat instead and protein as the bulk of kcals on a low carb diet. And, while fat does have satiating qualities, I think that protein wins in terms of being able to take care of hunger. For me, protein takes care of hunger and fat sates my taste buds. But, my taste buds come second to my hunger right now. I can't deal with hunger... AT ALL.

Ladies.... I was just wondering.... Should I eat 6 small meals/3 meals because it is time to, or only eat when I feel hungry? Ive just fixed the kids' lunch and on autopilot went to the fridge to grab some meat but am thinking.... I'm not actually hungry.
I've hardcored this Stillmans since 15th July and have a majorly suppressed appetite as a result.
What to do, what to do....
I want my metabolism to keep ticking over - does this woe affect that?
I've low carbed before but never looked into it the way you guys do.

Dita,
I am “so over” the eat 3 or 6 meals advice, though Stillman does indeed recommend it. If it makes you feel any better, Dr. Eric Westman, one author of NANY, said in the LC support group last night..don’t eat if you are not hungry. The advice is similar in the Paleo world too...they are big on intermittent fasting. Benefits listed here:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/heal.../#axzz22xZ2XDiq

ps: and did meet my goal of having a weight recorded at the gyno which was lower than the lowest recorded at Dr. Westman's clinic,and since 2004...by less than a pound, but I'll take it

JEY, how did the consult with Dr. W go? I have to agree that force-feeding is counterproductive. I know we can get carried away with that but scheduled feedings don't seem necessary.

Blue, Yesterday was my annual gyno appointment. She was impressed by my weight loss and lipids (HDL of 102 and Trigs of 30). There really was nothing to discuss...I feel fantastic, best in 6 years.

June was my last visit to Westman’s clinic, but I can go to the support group, email him or do a return visit anytime. We did talk about nutritional ketosis last night, and I told them “I cut down on fat” since I didn’t lose weight in NK. He’s very interested in everyone’s experience with it. And has always said calories count, but on LC you do not need to count calories. The lovely lady who co-ordinates this group, started at 324, and has now lost 189. She broke her plateau by moderating protein and upping fats...so we are “all snowflakes” Lab wrote (#123) what I believe is happening to me...it's just the low calories at this point. The high protein and exerise keeps my lean muscle intact, and I still get about 30% fat from the meat.

Sorry I misunderstood. When you said you were going to ask Dr. Westman what he thought about Stillman I thought it was in consult.