Janet, I think that ketosis is very helpful if it causes you appetite suppression, which it seems to do for many. But, you can certainly burn body fat without having detectable ketones, it seems. A few weeks ago, I registered on a stick for the first time ever, but I wasn't losing any weight. I was low protein and eating a lot of fat. But, I was miserable, my kcals were too high in an attempt to satisfy my hunger, and ketosis meant nothing to me. Now, I'm back to not registering, but I'm eating so much less because my hunger is satisfied. And, of course, I'm losing weight. I do realize the sticks and the blood monitor are different. However, I'd venture to say I wouldn't have much going on in the blood ketone department at this point, either. And, you know what? I don't care. As long as I'm losing weight, I'm not concerned about the concentration of ketones in my blood and/or urine at any given time.

Or, as Dr. Atkins said:



After two years of hearing about the whoosh fairy, she visited me for the first time. I have been stuck firm at 166 even for five days, but yesterday I had that same water release which hopefully came from deflating fat cells, and have lost another 2 pounds.
Ketosis..Smertosis...calorie and fat restriction work too at this point.

Hey all. Just checked into the other thread and read about you guys on Stillman's. Thought I would check it out. Been struggling with not losing for months and wondering if fat could be the culprit. Not quite ready to commit to this but considering and probably will have to lower fat.

It's difficult because I just don't like lean meats, so we will see. I could certainly add more chicken and ground turkey and use less oil and butters. Will be reading more about this.....

Standing on the diving board, trying to get my courage up to dive in.....

Yay, Janet! You and me both on the whoosh fairy. A first time occurrence for both of us this week. How cool! Congrats on getting down to this new low for you!

Hello, Bambi! Nice to see you here. I was really apprehensive about lowering fat, but I knew I was eating too many kcals. And, I need a good amount of protein to handle my hunger (sometimes up to 180-190 grams per day.) That, in conjunction with a lot of fat and any veggies I was adding in was simply not going to work. So, now I just eat the protein to satiety and fat falls in at about 30-40 percent. It's lower, but it keeps me in a weight loss range. If you find that you can eat meats that are a bit more lean, but still have some fat, and keep satisfied while keeping kcals within a losing range for you, then that should be fine. The whole idea of the lean meats is to cut out excess kcals, and the easiest way to do that is by restricting fat, since it's so kcal dense. Some folks are eating a bit more fat that I'm eating right now, and losing just fine, because the kcals are low enough.

I was really hungry last night at dinner, so ended up eating a little more meat than planned, but still finished out the day at 1315 kcals. Worked out great!

Welcome bambi501

I'm another one who prefers fattier meat, but then I realised it's not the fat per se .. it's moistness. I *hate* dry meat. Blehhh. The trick is to find cooking methods that help retain moisture in meats (and eggs), or ways to add moisture when eating. Adding a little fat-free broth to the cooking pan helps a lot to keep meat moist, especially chicken breast Use lower heat, and avoid over-cooking which is a sure guarantee for tough dry results.

Stillman allows some fat-free condiments "in moderation". Adding a spoonful of broth and a little vinegar or lemon juice to the "moderate portion" of condiment helps stretch it out so you get lots of flavor without a lot of calories.

Congrats to JEY100 and Labhrain , Nice whooosh, ladies!

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I've had a bit of a reverse whooosh , thanks to the fluid-retaining effect of ibuprofen and other pain meds I needed over the weekend. Up a lb, then down a lb .. so the scale is still at 205. It's just temporary so I'm not concerned at all. While my hands, feet and ankles are a bit puffy .. my abdomen/waist is down a half-inch, to 39.0" .

Definitely not hungry at all, so the satiating effect of lean protein is doing its job. Mostly eating boiled eggs, bnlss sknlss chicken thighs, x-lean ground beef burgers and large shrimps/prawns, plus condiments such as green herbs (dill, cilantro), sugar-free ketchup, mustard, vinegar, lemon juice and hot sauce. I'm still adding a bit of light cream to my morning cuppa, but the rest of the day I drink lots of iced water and green tea. Yesterday I made up a box of diet jello, just for variety. I don't have much of a sweet tooth and my experience has been that it doesn't trigger cravings.

So far, so good

Sounds great, Doreen! I don't use ibuprofen, but my understanding is that if you can maintain your weight on it, you're doing great, since it causes the retention issues.

Hunger being satisfied while being able to keep kcals low is the biggest thing this is giving me. There was no way I was going to be able to eat all the protein I need for satiety, while eating a decent percentage of fat, and manage to lose weight. For people who can get by easily on 60 or 70 grams of protein a day, that works great. Not for those of us who need a heck of a lot more than that. I do wish that this were something that got discussed more in the low carb blogosphere. But, high fat and lower protein (they call it moderate - for me it's definitely low) are all the rage. While I can understand why to some extent, it leaves a segment of low carbers scratching their heads.

Today I made a low calorie fat-free version of an Asian-style dressing that I've made often in the past. Without all of the oil that's usually added, it's quite potent!

low-cal, low-fat Asian-style dressing, dipping sauce or marinade

4 Tbsp fat-free beef broth, low-sodium if possible
1 Tbsp soy sauce (I use San-J gluten-free tamari, sodium-reduced)
1 Tbsp Asian fish sauce (nuoc nam), or substitute another Tbsp soy sauce
1 Tbsp lime juice (or lemon juice or cider vinegar)
1 white & light green part from a large green onion (scallion), finely minced
1 tsp finely grated fresh ginger root (more, to taste)
2 - 3 drops stevia extract, more to taste
optional: pinch of Chinese 5-spice powder, pinch of cayenne, chopped fresh cilantro
optional #2 (see note below the recipe)

Put everything in a small jar with tight lid. Shake well, or use a blender. Makes one half-cup, or 4 servings of 2 Tbsp each.
Store in the fridge, shake well before using.

per 2 Tbsp serving: 7 cals, 0.9g prot, 0.6g carbs, trace fat and fiber


option #2: If you have the room to add a few more calories, consider adding 1 tsp toasted sesame oil to the whole recipe (or add ¼ tsp to one serving). This really punches up the flavour

per serving of the dressing + ¼ tsp sesame oil: 18 cals, 0.9g prot, 0.6g carbs, 1.3g fat, trace fiber

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This afternoon I tried it spooned over water-pack tuna chunks with a little chopped fresh cilantro on top. Mmmmmmm . It made me think of you folks who've had trouble downing plain tuna .. maybe this could help git 'er down . I also tried it as a dipping sauce for cooked shrimp .. this too was very good.

I'm planning to have a skinless salmon fillet tomorrow for lunch .. it's in the fridge thawing overnight. Will use some of this sauce as a marinade, before grilling on my trusty George Foreman. Will keep you posted how it turns out.

I did not see non fat yogurt on the food list. Are we assuming it is ok since non fat cottage cheese is on the list or did I just miss it? I am thinking of doing this too in order to lose the last 4 lbs. hopefully. I could do it for a week or so.....I certainly do know how to maintain.

hi there pforrester

You're correct ... the original food list from 1967 doesn't include non-fat yogurt. The 1972 QWL cookbook update allows skim milk and low-fat yogurt for teens/youth.

Non-fat Greek yogurt is a 21'st century product which fits into the original Stillman QWL requirements. It's very low in fat and calories, and high in protein .. just like low-fat cottage cheese or pot cheese, which is allowed.

Just my opinion, of course. It's up to you if you wish to include it in your Stillman program.

Hi Pam,
I likely contributed to your confusion. Non-fat Greek yogurt is allowed on the Dukan Attack phase, which is the only thing new and different he added from Stillman QWL. Dukan encourages 1.5T of oat bran too, but I tried it and my eczema flared up, so I dropped that quickly. I did test my blood sugar after yogurt and found it stayed somewhat elevated, so I haven't been using much of it. Non-fat cottage cheese is creamy enough to sub as a snack/dessert.

Doreen, that sounds like a nice dressing...anything for some moisture. Being lazy though, last night I did chicken in a jar of Trader Joe's Thai Green curry sauce. 4 carbs and 5g fat in a 1/4 cup. A spicy sauce for that otherwise dry chicken.

All these sauces and dips sound great but I'm afraid if I go off the dry/plain road I might start wanting other things.

I have my first gain this morning. 1/4 of a pound! Why? WHY?! Why did I have gain just 1/4 of a pound? How annoying!!

Good morning. Another restless night. They are so annoying. Thank goodness I do not have to work.

Thanks for the recipe and yes it is the dryness of the meat that I find distasteful and thanks for the suggestions.

I have realized for almost a year that I have to lower calories if I want to lose but because I have had so much emotional turmoil have struggled. Luckily? Because of DII I never took off on the sugar roller coaster but keeping calories lower has been really difficult.

Slowly lowering fat intake. Never realized how big my appetite is, nor how filling fat was for me. Which, of course, has really contributed to high cal intake. Ate much more protein yesterday because I was hungry!

I don't know if I can be as strict as Stillman's plan but can see that it really is beneficial. Part of my hesitation is the lack of flavor but I realized too that part of it has been fear that the extra protein would turn to sugar and cause my blood sugars to rise. That didn't happen yesterday and that was a relief.

Had tri tip bbq'd. Much less fatty than my usual cuts of beef. It was really good. Also cooked up some chicken breasts and used some broth and seasonings and just a little oil-like maybe a tspn. It was pretty good also.

I have really been a fat hog! Just watching it yesterday I can see how I really have been over doing it.Adding oil, butter, mayo like a waterfall to everything I ate! Hoping cutting it down will bring some results without having to be drastic. At the same time, I am getting to the point where I really just want to get the rest of this off and stop f'ing around with it.

Good day to all!

JEY How encouraging since you are so close to goal!!!!! Whoosh! I'm so happy for you and it gives me a lift to keep on!

Doreen, thanks for the sauce recipe. I do love sauces with my meats. Not a lot, but I like flavor.

I agree about the Greek yogurt being on a par with cottage cheese. I compared labels a while back and saw it as an even exchange if one can handle it. I can't. I crave and binge on the stuff. It's just something that I can't deal with and for the life of me I don't know what the difference is unless it reacts in my body differently.

I'm still at lowest weight thus far and hoping to move down. Have a good 'un!