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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-20, 13:03
Candiflip's Avatar
Candiflip Candiflip is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,614
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/156/140 Female 66 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 82%
Location: Langley, B.C. Canada
Default adding fat with out adding so many calories

Hello, I feel I have forgotten how to add/up my fat with out adding a huge amount of calories.
I'm struggling with feeling hungry all the time.
Not being in ketosis despite eating under 20 carbs.
And feeling satisfied unless I overeat in calories.

I know I an add oil, butter, mayo, etc.. but those all are high calories.
Nuts are out as I'm still sticking to induction as I'm 2.5 weeks and still no ketosis and no weight loss.

I realized I was eating far too many caloires almost 2 weeks in. Tying to adjust that now and did good for 2 days.. but yesterday slipped and was REALLY hungry and ended up eating like 600 calories in pork rinds at the end of the night
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-20, 13:27
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Perhaps not worry about calories at the start. Rather get your body roaring into action, and the ketosis will help you feel not hungry. Initially ketosis is fuelled by added fats. Eventually as your appetite drops, ketosis is fuelled by body fat. Body needs time to ramp up its ability to burn body fat. Can take a couple weeks for most.

Does that make sense??

Initially fat comes from the diet. That provides the satiety necessary to avoid hunger and continue the journey. Dr Atkins talked about 2000 calories a day, not 1400-1600. The initial weight loss is fluids as body rids itself of inflammation. Then weight loss slows as weight loss is from buring body fat.

Bottom line. Eat more fat for now.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-20, 13:42
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Doing My Best
Posts: 4,924
 
Plan: LC/CancerRecovery
Stats: 170/135/130 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 88%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
Default

Not arguing with Ms Arielle, just giving a different perspective.
All pure fats are calorie-dense. There's no way around it. Counting calories during LCHF eating is definitely not encouraged.

When I do a fat fast, I use cream cheese spread (~2 tbls.= 80kcal it's lower in kcal than most.) Not ON anything. When I feel empty, I use a tiny spoon to scrape tiny portions.

Try to analyze the kind of carbs you're eating, as by this time you shouldn't be experiencing hunger. Are you eating "real food?"

Hope this helps in some way. If not, just disregard.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-20, 13:58
Candiflip's Avatar
Candiflip Candiflip is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,614
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/156/140 Female 66 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 82%
Location: Langley, B.C. Canada
Default

Yes all real food, no low carb/keto processed food.
Butter, cream, eggs, meat, cheese .. only processed would be zero carb and zero sugar pork rinds and beef jerky.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-20, 14:00
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Protein foods with their natural fats are unlimited and increase satiety. Any meat, fish, and a great snack, hard boiled eggs. Fats are not as satisfying because they don’t contain many nutrients, yet are energy dense.
I follow Dr Westman's clinic version of Atkins...only 2T cream, 2T mayo, 2-4 oz cheese...only minimum cooking oil or butter on veg in addition to that.

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Sep-16-20 at 14:27.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-20, 14:35
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

In Response to your previous question, many of us already suggested adding more protein. Not to avoid the energy from fats, but to restore lean mass with the protein that was likely lacking from a vegetarian diet. https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=484416
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-20, 14:55
Candiflip's Avatar
Candiflip Candiflip is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,614
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/156/140 Female 66 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 82%
Location: Langley, B.C. Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
In Response to your previous question, many of us already suggested adding more protein. Not to avoid the energy from fats, but to restore lean mass with the protein that was likely lacking from a vegetarian diet. https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=484416

Yes thank you, that is why I’m struggling.
I have read but struggle to fully comprehend
I lost so much weight before with little effort except 100% dedication.
Can I be go at and say I’m very disappointed in my 40 year old body and metabolism 😣
I tried the Eat until satisfied the first couple weeks but the calories seems so high and I didn’t lose I gained weight😬 I was not looking at calories in the beginning till I looked through my old food diary and realized I was eating a fraction of what I was eating now
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-20, 16:56
barb712's Avatar
barb712 barb712 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,435
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 240/188/185 Female 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 95%
Default

The new version of traditional Atkins, Atkins 20, recommends 4-6 oz. of "protein" (meat, fish, poultry, 2-3 eggs), 4-5 g NC of foundation vegetables, and 1-2 tablespoons of healthy fats (oil, butter, mayo, dressing) per meal, three meals per day plus 64 oz. of pure water. That plus 0-2 low-carb snacks helps your macros and calories fall in a good range. I follow that guideline and it works well for me. People demonize the new Atkins or the Atkins website, but I've found it extremely helpful, especially their tracker.

https://www.atkins.com/how-it-works/atkins-20

Last edited by barb712 : Wed, Sep-16-20 at 17:02.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Sep-16-20, 20:19
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Sep-17-20, 13:01
Kirsteen's Avatar
Kirsteen Kirsteen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,819
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 217/145/143 Female 171cm
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candiflip
Hello, I feel I have forgotten how to add/up my fat with out adding a huge amount of calories.
I'm struggling with feeling hungry all the time.
Not being in ketosis despite eating under 20 carbs.
And feeling satisfied unless I overeat in calories.

I know I an add oil, butter, mayo, etc.. but those all are high calories.
Nuts are out as I'm still sticking to induction as I'm 2.5 weeks and still no ketosis and no weight loss.

I realized I was eating far too many caloires almost 2 weeks in. Tying to adjust that now and did good for 2 days.. but yesterday slipped and was REALLY hungry and ended up eating like 600 calories in pork rinds at the end of the night


Hi there, you've had great advice already, but here are my thoughts ...

Why are you trying to add fat at all? You need your body to burn its own fat, which it won't if you're providing it with a ton of dietary fat!

You need to go back to basics with re-reading the Atkins book properly and try some of the recipes in it, which do not ladle on a load of fat. Dr. Atkins only said that you need not be frightened of fat. He did not suggest that you should deliberately add it. Also, log your food, because it's easy to forget how many carbs are in things. I started back seriously low-carbing after a loose spell, and I realised I had to weigh the kale to limit myself to 100g per meal, because I had erroneously thought that I could eat a mountain of it at each meal, along with other veggies!

Another piece of advice from Dr. Atkins is to go to bed earlier in order to avoid the late night snacking. If I stay up late and get too tired, I end up eating extra things too. Another thing is that stress hormones muck up your blood-sugar balance and thus impede weightloss. I cannot lose weight if I go to bed late. I need to go to bed by 11pm in order to lose weight, and ideally it should be 10pm.

Another thing is the carbs.. I don't know what form the carbs you're eating take, but I suggest that you eat the full quota allowed from Dr. Atkins' vegetable lists because you are used to the bulk, and the fibre will slow the food going through your body. Don't use your carb allowance on anything else, including nuts. Half a cup of macademia nuts is about 10g carbs, 4.5fiber, and a zillion calories (nearly 500!)! You can eat 100g of veggies at each meal, which is a nice big pile of food with more fiber and bulk, practically no calories and then add your protein and a little salad dressing. I sometimes bake a whole turnip (rutabaga) in the microwave, then I can have some slices at each meal, along with plenty of leafy veg. I never peel any veg so I get all the fibre. Focus on fiber and bulk for now.

Just one last thing.. I'd suggest that you are either very close to a healthy BMI now, so weightloss is going to be pretty slow in any case.

If you aren't already journalling, then it really helps to keep a journal of every single thing you eat, so you can make adjustments and find what works for you. I used my journal to record everything I eat. It makes boring reading for visitors, but I need to do it for myself.

Ohhhh ... and one other last thing!!! Most important!

I record every new low weight and ignore all the other weights. I have issues with inflammation, so my weight goes up and down like a yoyo. As an example, first thing this morning I weighed 153 lbs. I had no food at all and only drank black coffee all morning, and by 11am, my weight was 7lbs heavier. Don't let fluctuations get you down - they are only water fluctuations, nothing to do with fat loss. Tweak the diet: cut out the extra fat, get the Atkins veggies into your diet, along with sufficient protein, claim each new low weight and ignore fluctuations so long as you're dropping a lb to a new low every couple of weeks.

Best of luck. With a few tweaks you'll get there.

Last edited by Kirsteen : Thu, Sep-17-20 at 13:48.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Sep-17-20, 14:55
Candiflip's Avatar
Candiflip Candiflip is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,614
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/156/140 Female 66 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 82%
Location: Langley, B.C. Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsteen
Hi there, you've had great advice already, but here are my thoughts ...

Why are you trying to add fat at all? You need your body to burn its own fat, which it won't if you're providing it with a ton of dietary fat!

You need to go back to basics with re-reading the Atkins book properly and try some of the recipes in it, which do not ladle on a load of fat. Dr. Atkins only said that you need not be frightened of fat. He did not suggest that you should deliberately add it. Also, log your food, because it's easy to forget how many carbs are in things. I started back seriously low-carbing after a loose spell, and I realised I had to weigh the kale to limit myself to 100g per meal, because I had erroneously thought that I could eat a mountain of it at each meal, along with other veggies!

Another piece of advice from Dr. Atkins is to go to bed earlier in order to avoid the late night snacking. If I stay up late and get too tired, I end up eating extra things too. Another thing is that stress hormones muck up your blood-sugar balance and thus impede weightloss. I cannot lose weight if I go to bed late. I need to go to bed by 11pm in order to lose weight, and ideally it should be 10pm.

Another thing is the carbs.. I don't know what form the carbs you're eating take, but I suggest that you eat the full quota allowed from Dr. Atkins' vegetable lists because you are used to the bulk, and the fibre will slow the food going through your body. Don't use your carb allowance on anything else, including nuts. Half a cup of macademia nuts is about 10g carbs, 4.5fiber, and a zillion calories (nearly 500!)! You can eat 100g of veggies at each meal, which is a nice big pile of food with more fiber and bulk, practically no calories and then add your protein and a little salad dressing. I sometimes bake a whole turnip (rutabaga) in the microwave, then I can have some slices at each meal, along with plenty of leafy veg. I never peel any veg so I get all the fibre. Focus on fiber and bulk for now.

Just one last thing.. I'd suggest that you are either very close to a healthy BMI now, so weightloss is going to be pretty slow in any case.

If you aren't already journalling, then it really helps to keep a journal of every single thing you eat, so you can make adjustments and find what works for you. I used my journal to record everything I eat. It makes boring reading for visitors, but I need to do it for myself.

Ohhhh ... and one other last thing!!! Most important!

I record every new low weight and ignore all the other weights. I have issues with inflammation, so my weight goes up and down like a yoyo. As an example, first thing this morning I weighed 153 lbs. I had no food at all and only drank black coffee all morning, and by 11am, my weight was 7lbs heavier. Don't let fluctuations get you down - they are only water fluctuations, nothing to do with fat loss. Tweak the diet: cut out the extra fat, get the Atkins veggies into your diet, along with sufficient protein, claim each new low weight and ignore fluctuations so long as you're dropping a lb to a new low every couple of weeks.

Best of luck. With a few tweaks you'll get there.



Thanks
I gave away my originals books years ago
I’ve been searching second hand shops for a week now for them. Gonna stop by a few lady this afternoon and look again.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Sep-17-20, 15:31
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

TRY online too. Amazon lists used books , so maybe DANDR is carried too.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Sep-17-20, 15:36
Candiflip's Avatar
Candiflip Candiflip is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,614
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/156/140 Female 66 inches
BF:22%
Progress: 82%
Location: Langley, B.C. Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
TRY online too. Amazon lists used books , so maybe DANDR is carried too.

I’m in Canada did not see much when I looked the other day.
Library does not have either.
I’ll keep looking 😊
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Sep-17-20, 17:31
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Doing My Best
Posts: 4,924
 
Plan: LC/CancerRecovery
Stats: 170/135/130 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 88%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
Default

I don't want to be a bother, but I'm 75 and have been using LCHF in all versions since the first Atkins book came out in 1972. One of the by-products of our WOE is excellent health. However, over the years, the body parts wear out. This brings me to fight the pain of osteoarthritis with anti-inflammatory eating.

I'm in maintenance, and being in maintenance is never easy. If you think keeping the fat off at 40 is difficult for women, just imagine how hard it is at 70+ (80+, 90+). The way I keep the pain away is by eating to therapeutic ketosis My blood ketone level is between 2-4mmol/l. This requires eating a LOT of fat on balance. But my personal need is pain control, not weight loss.

It's true that the body burns the fat we ingest before it burns the fat we carry. That can't be changed as far as I know. It's one of the rules of thermodynamics. However, it's hard to get into ketosis without eating fat.

IMO, the books just repeat the same information. The Internet gives it all for free, and it's easier to carry around.

Remember this: Every person's body is different and there's no such thing as one dietary plan fits all. We're all basing our responses on our own personal experiences.

Good luck to you.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Sep-18-20, 05:55
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,605
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

To re-emphasize what I think is a very important point: you are in a state where your body is both malnourished and has too much fat locked away. Because of insulin resistance.

While I found success with the Carnivore plan, at first I was always hungry. In the past when I tried this plan, I thought it wasn't working because I was so hungry. It took a lot of people sharing their experiences online for me to realize I was both malnourished and I had too much fat locked away.

I was eating nothing but grass-fed burger, Montreal salt seasoning, green tea, and coconut oil. Reassured, I ate as much as I wanted. Which was, sometimes, two pounds of meat a day

But amazing things happened. I started feeling much better, my autoimmune symptoms diminished and then went into remission, and I lost down to my lowest weight ever. I rediscovered the joys of high appetite (this was the BEST food I'd ever eaten and I enjoyed every bite) and the resultant satiation (I am done and I'm not hungry for hours) and I still use that guideline to what I eat. I learned the difference between real hunger and compulsion.

I'm not saying go Carnivore unless you think it's right for you. But I'm offering my experience to show that trying to wrestle our bodies into what we think is the right thing will never work. I know, I tried for decades. I'm sure you thought eating vegetarian was the "right thing" and now you don't. We've all been there, one way or another.

But without this "extreme experiment" I would never have imagined my body was suffering allergic reactions to lectins and fiber. (As I understand my situation so far.) So now I eat meat, fat, fermented dairy, and botanical fruit. Everything is chosen to be LOW lectin/fiber. And strangely enough, I don't pay that much attention to carbs, I only eat to hunger.

Because it turned out lectins and fiber make me incredibly hungry. Never saw that one coming, but there it is. I had to learn the difference because my time of eating meat-only made me feel highly satisfied for hours. Eating that "healthy" salad with greens and sunflower seeds and maybe a few black beans didn't satisfy for as long as an hour, and next time I would eat MORE.

I don't know what your "magic key" is to your condition. All I know is we all seem to have one But you have to get off the trains with the signs that read This worked before and I was told and OMG I'm not losing to actually figure out what your body is asking for. And then giving your body what it wants and needs.

Only then can our mind and body work as a team; instead of being on opposite sides of a war nobody can win.
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