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  #1   ^
Old Thu, May-31-01, 22:40
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 19,527
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default Re: Adipokinetix & Lipokinetix

Quote:
Originally posted by Trainerdan
The company only recently recalled the product, so if you go to a good supplement store (not GNC, etc.)


LOL, what's wrong with GNC? All I know about them is they sell things at twice what they're worth.

As for studies on stacking/fat burners, here's a link for those interested:

http://www.drumlib.com

Thanks for the summary of CKD!

Wa'il
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Aug-13-01, 17:12
fern2340's Avatar
fern2340 fern2340 is offline
Posts: 8,394
 
Plan: My Own Plan
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 6 ft 2 in
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: NJ
Default

Dan-
Great CKD info.... I tried to copy this to the Low Carb Plans forum so all who are interested could see it but alas, my brain has decided to take the night off! Doreen came to the rescue and just an FYI, now your post is in the Low Carb Plans forum also!
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Jun-01-01, 10:33
rainny's Avatar
rainny rainny is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 415
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 245/215/130
BF:
Progress:
Location: Waller TX
Question

Trainerdan
What about metabolife? And if I can't find the Lipokinetix, What do you recommend next?
Also, My hubby has very small chest muscles. He doesn’t want to lose too much weight because he say his chest sinks in. What is the best way for him to build this up? It really the upper chest.
THANKS,
L RRAINE
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Jun-01-01, 12:34
rainny's Avatar
rainny rainny is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 415
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 245/215/130
BF:
Progress:
Location: Waller TX
Question

Also,
What level am I suppose to keep my heart rate at? I used to know this…before I stopped working out and stopped eating LowCarb. I’m 5’4, 215, age 32 {33in August! WOO HOO! Yeah right! HA!}. My Hubby is 38, 6’2, 173.
THANK YOU SOOOO SUCH,
Lorraine
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Jun-01-01, 14:30
rainny's Avatar
rainny rainny is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 415
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 245/215/130
BF:
Progress:
Location: Waller TX
Wink

Trainerdan,
THANK YOU!!! I'm leaving in a couple of hours to go get my treadmill!!!! We are ready to start!! I feel real good about this! Can't wait to see what happens!
Thanks again...and Have a GREAT WEEKEND!
LRRAINE
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, May-31-01, 21:42
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
Posts: 2,518
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 255/242/230 Male 75 inches (6'3")
BF:21%/15%/8%
Progress: 52%
Location: Philly
Default CKD 101

OK, here we go ...

The CKD is what Fern and Wa'il touched on ... You cycle (hence, cyclical) low-carb phases (Monday morning thru Friday evening) with high-carb/moderate protein/low-fat phases (Friday night thru Sunday).

The #1 concern I often hear from low-carb dieters is "How can it work? You break ketosis every week!" Well ... that's true.

BUT, the whole basis of a CKD is that it is designed with the idea that your body needs fuel for intense workouts. Without intense weigh training, you will not add muscle. And I think we all know how intense weight training ISN'T while you are low-carbbing.

So, by carb-loading on weekends, you give your muscles enough fuel to provide intense weight training for Monday. By the end of Monday (Tueday AM at the latest), you will have performed an intense weight training workout, along with a morning cardio workout, and will be in ketosis Monday night thru Friday.

The workout plan structure that Fern followed is as follows:

Monday:

AM - cardio on an empty stomach and a fat burner

PM - Full body intense weight training (3 sets of 8 for all exercises, at a weight that is very challenging for 8 reps), resting 2 minutes between sets. This allows full recovery, and will allow you to push yourself.

Tues:

AM - empty stomach cardio, while on fat burner

Weds:

AM - empty stomach cardio, while on fat burner

PM- Circuit training, full body routine. The trick is to do the workout with as little rest time between esxercises. Use SUPERSETS ... which is one exercise, then go right into another exercise, then rest, and repeat. So, say your superset was chest presses and chest flies. Do 15 presses, then 15 flies, then rest 20 seconds. Repeat 2 more times, then move to the next superset.

Thurs:

AM - empty stomach cardio, while on fat burner

Friday:

AM - empty stomach cardio, while on fat burner

PM - as Wednesday night. Then the fun starts ... after this workout, begin the CARB-UP!!!

Weekends, you don't workout since that would effect the storgae of carbs.

Of course, this oversimplified the paln that Fern went thru, but it was the structure.

It is also important that you change the intensity of the cardio porgram every week. You can do this by just making it longer each week. Start at 30 mins, and increase by 15 mins each week. When it gets over an hour, split it up into 2 workouts. So, for example, a 1 1/2 hour cardio workout can be broken into a 45 minutes morning sesssion and a 45 minute evening session, after weight training if they both fall on the same night.

As for adapting weight training, you should change the program every 2 weeks of so.

The idea behind the Monday double session (weights/cardio) is to deplete carbs and get you into ketosis.

The Wednesday and Friday weight training sessions are butt-draggers, since you will be depleted. They are circuit training which means light weights/higher reps/short rest periods. 3 sets, 15 reps, 20 seconds rest.

If you need help putting all of this together, the exact program Fern (and I) followed are on our site ... it's in the fitness/nutrition articles section called "SUPERCUT CYCLE". That article also contains some helpful linnks, like a ratio calcualtor for the low-carb (ketogenic) phase, as well as the carb-up (supercompensation) phase.

I think I covered the major points ... then again, it's late and I am up past my bedtime so I may have been unclear.

If there are any questions out there, fire away! I will answer them all. I check in to the board at least once per day.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Jul-09-03, 12:50
dirty-c dirty-c is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 46
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 155/155/155 Male 5'7"
BF:
Progress:
Location: columbus, ohio
Default

How can beer fit in this diet? Are the carbs in beer high GI? What about alcohol? Will it hurt the ability of the insulin to usher in the glucose? I'm a college student who likes to drink w/ my friends on weekends. I know that when your under the influence, you body WILL use ketones since they are most easily converted into energy. During the HI carb phase, are we attempting to turn glucose back into our body's primary source of energy, or are we merely trying to get the glucose into our muscles (forming glycogen)?
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Jul-16-03, 02:47
joe_'s Avatar
joe_ joe_ is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 31
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 238/217/200 Male 76 inches
BF:17/15/7
Progress: 55%
Default

im currently on the atkins diet for about a week but want to lose around 30-40 pounds, would it be wise to switch up to the ckg with 24 hour carb load instead? i just don't want to put on any extra weight, but in the same time i would like to put on muscle so when it all works out i come out pretty muscular but still lost the fat, the reason i came looking for this is because i finally did some weights since starting it, (previously only doing cardio) and mannn, it was the weakest workout i think i've ever had, i couldnt finish anything or hardly flex my muscles when i tried... im thinking i should try this but hopefully somebody will respond!!! thanks.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Aug-08-03, 07:56
montecarlo montecarlo is offline
New Member
Posts: 2
 
Plan: TKD
Stats: 240/240/200
BF:12%
Progress: 0%
Location: Tampa Bay
Default Hello all I am new to this forum!

I am coming from the anabolex and elitefitness forums. I found the Mr X CKD program to be very usefull. Maybe a little complicated if your not math savy. Low carb diets takes planning and will power. Been on ckd several times and every time I get on it, I do better from the previous cycle. I normally go for 12-16 weeks, and then up the carbs slowly.

Mr.X CKD Manual


I would like to dedicate this to Bart, without him I would not be writing this nor would I be the person that I am today.


by: Mr.X


So, you want to start a CKD. Now, what the hell is a CKD you ask? Well, a CKD (cyclo-ketonic-diet) is simply a diet that consists of two cycles: low/no-carbohydrates and high-carbohydrates. How do these two come together to actually make a diet, simply stated: they do, that’s it. But, to be serious. A Ketonic diet is something that we all hear from Atkins, which is basically High-Fat, Moderate-Protein and Low/No-Carbs. Yet, this type of diet, although very effective for the average Joe, is not sufficient for a bodybuilder’s (weightlifter’s) needs.


Why? Well, once your muscle glycogen is depleted, your workouts become a pain in the ass, you are sluggish and muscle loss can occur. (due to the fact that no insulin is present in the system, there will be NO muscle gain while in Ketosis) Because, the main goal of Ketosis is to have no glycogen in the liver so glucagon can be released. (yada yada yada yada, well I don’t think anyone cares about the technical aspect, so I’ll get to the point)Basically, it all boils down to the following: Day 1-6 you eat High-Fat/Moderate-Protein/Low-No-Carbohydrates, then Day 7 you eat HIGH-GI carbohydrates and low-fat, in order to achieve supercompensation and refill muscle glycogen. (this will ensure quality training throughout every CKD cycle you do)




Mr.X, can you please just shut-up and give us some information on setting up a CKD.


YES, I can-------




Setting up a CKD (6days Ketosis/1day Carb-Up)


First-off, let’s figure out your BMR (basal-metabolic-rate). Take your weight and multiply it by 12=daily calorie intake without a deficit.


(100lb person) Example: 100lb x 12cal= 1200cal…1200cal=BMR


Everything I put forth will revolve in one way or another around your BMR, so listen up.




6/1 ratio (6 days in ketosis/1 day carb-up)




Figure out your BMR...(basal-metabolic-rate)=caloires needed to maintain current weight


weight x 12=BMR....(EXAMPLE: 100lb x 12=1200 cal a day)


Use the following fat/protein ratios w/ BMR deficit:



Ketosis:



Day:



1-> 85%fat/15%protein--BMR-5%



2-> 75%fat/25%protein--BMR-10%



3-> 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%



4-> 70%fat/30%protein--BMR



5-> 70%fat/30%protein--BMR-10%



6-> 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%



Carb-Up:



Day-7-> (CARB-UP) BMR+30% ---I will go into detail on the


carb-up later in the article---




So, how do you calculate these percents and BMR. Well, let’s use a 200lb person as an example of this.



EXAMPLE BASED ON 200lb PERSON:



200lb. x 12cal=2400cal (BMR)



Ketosis: Days 1-6:




Day 1: 85%fat/15%protein-- BMR-5%



2400cal (BMR) x .05=120cal (is 5% from BMR)



2400cal (BMR) – 120 cal (5%deficit)=2280cal for day 1



---fat ratios for day 1---



2280cal x .85 (that is 85% fat)=1938cal from fat



Fat has 9 calories/gram



1938cal divided by 9cal/gram=215g fat for day 1



---now we need the protein ratios for day 1---


,p>2280cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=342 cal from protein



Protein has 4 calories/grams



342cal divided by 4cal/gram=86 g protein for day 1



Totals for Day-1: 215g fat/86g protein




Now, you might ask, why is the protein so low? Because protein can keep you out of Ketosis and, remember, everyday you are in Ketosis, you are burning fat while preserving muscle because Ketones (hence the name Ketosis) are protein sparing. Protein can convert to glycogen at almost 58% efficiency, so you see why excess protein is a bad idea. Plus, strictly from a scientific standpoint, a person can maintain current muscle mass at merely a 15%protein ratio, while no muscle gain is possible, maintenance is a very feasible idea with these ratios.




Day 2: 75%fat/25%protein-- BMR-10%



2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)



2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 2



---fat ratios for day 2---



2160cal x .75 (that is 75% fat)=1620cal from fat



Fat has 9 calories/gram



1620cal divided by 9cal/gram=180g fat for day 2



---now we need the protein ratios for day 2---



2160cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=324 cal from protein



Protein has 4 calories/grams



324cal divided by 4cal/gram=81 g protein for day 2



Totals for Day-2: 180g fat/81g protein




Day 3: 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%



2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)



2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 3



---fat ratios for day 3---



2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat



Fat has 9 calories/gram



1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 3



---now we need the protein ratios for day 3---



2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein



Protein has 4 calories/grams



714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 3



Totals for Day-3: 147g fat/178g protein




Day 4: 70%fat/30%protein-- BMR



2400cal (BMR)



---fat ratios for day 4---



2400cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1680cal from fat



Fat has 9 calories/gram



1680cal divided by 9cal/gram=186g fat for day 4



---now we need the protein ratios for day 4---



2400cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=720 cal from protein



Protein has 4 calories/grams



720cal divided by 4cal/gram=180 g protein for day 4



Totals for Day-4: 186g fat/180g protein




Day 5: 70%fat/30%protein--BMR-10%



2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)



2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 5



---fat ratios for day 5---



2160cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1512cal from fat



Fat has 9 calories/gram



1512cal divided by 9cal/gram=168g fat for day 5



---now we need the protein ratios for day 5---



2160cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=648 cal from protein



Protein has 4 calories/grams



648cal divided by 4cal/gram=162 g protein for day 5



Totals for Day-5: 168g fat/162g protein




Day 6: (same as day 3) 65%fat/35%protein-- BMR-15%


2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)


2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 6


---fat ratios for day 6---


2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat


Fat has 9 calories/gram


1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 6


---now we need the protein ratios for day 6---


2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein


Protein has 4 calories/grams


714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 6


Totals for Day-6: 147g fat/178g protein




Essential-Fatty-Acids: flaxseed oil, sesames seed oil, sunflower seed oil, grape seed oil, olive oil, peanut oil




Now, I know, I know. You want to know how to do this the easy way. Because, what I’ve just shown beforehand is probably damn complicated. So, here is a simple rule-of-thumb way to break down your Ketosis ratios:


1)Set calories at: 12 cal/lb


2)Set protein intake: typically 0.9 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram


3)Set fat intake: take protein calories and subtract them from total calories, then divide by 9 to get grams of fat.


In practice, most people end up eating about 1 gram of fat for every gram of protein. Ketosis almost always establishes with 1/1 ratios. (fat/protein -grams-)





CARB-UP:


I’ve heard different ratios stated by different people on this subject, but as you know, opinions are like ass-holes everyone has one and it stinks. So, I will attempt to come up with a feasible ratios for you.




DAY 7: --carb-up— BMR+30%


EXAMPLE FOR A 200lb PERSON:


2400cal (BMR) x .30= 720cal


2400cal + 720cal=3120cal


~70%carbs/20%protein/10%fat~


CARBS:


3120 x .70= 2185 cal from carbs


Carbohydrates have 4cal/g


2185cal divided by 4ca/g=546g carbs


PROTEIN:


3120 x .20=624cal from protein


Protein has 4cal/g


624cal divided by 4cal/g=156g protein


FAT:


3120 x .10=312 cal from fat


Fat has 9cal/g


312 divided by 9=35g fat


Totals: 546g carbs/156g protein/35g fat




SAMPLE CARB-UP: (6meals) –based on 200lb person—


1-2: 150 g liquid glucose polymers...like carb powders (ex..carbo max, dextrose..etc.) w/ 1 scoop protein


3-4: 75 g of liquid and solid glucose polymers...sugar cereals (frosted flakes,honey-nut-cheerios..etc) w/ fat-free milk w/ 1/4 cup walnuts


5-6: 50 g of complex carbs (low-GI)...oatmeal, brown-rice, beans, yams, sweet potato w/ 1/4 cup walnuts




FRUCTOSE: (i.e. FRUITS)


Why is it that people say to avoid fructose? I've heard that quite a few times, and was curious why. How important is this? Fructose resupplies the liver with glycogen first, if the liver is full, then via the pentose phosphate pathway, all additional fructose goes to FAT.




I know that every reader wants a simple way to figure out a carb-up, so here it is:


1) Set total calories at: 16 cal/lb


2) Set protein intake: typically 0.2 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram


3) Set fat intake: usually 0.1g/lb. Fat has 9cal/gram


4) Set carb. intake: add protein and fat calories and subtract it from total calories, then divide by 4 to get grams of carbs.


In practice, most people end up eating about 2.7 grams of carbs for every lb of weight.





So, what type of workout and cardio do you have to do while on CKD. Here is a sample workout routine based on a 6/1 CKD. (6day Ketosis/1day carb-up)


Day:


1- 30 min cardio morning(empty stomach)/workout: Chest, Upper-Back, shoulders, arms, traps, abs


2- 30 min cardio morning/ workout: Legs, (includes, calfs, hams,quads), lower-back


3- 45 min cardio morning OR 1 hour cardio during the day


4- SAME AS DAY 3


5- 30-45 min cardio AM no workout


6- 30 min cardio AM/ full body workout = circuit training 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps)


7- before carb-up…early in AM do a full body circuit workout 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps), then IMMEDIATELY begin CARB-UP.




-(DAY 1-6) For each bodypart do 1-2 exercises with 12-10-18-6 -dropset-12 reps---


ex: bench-press 12/10/8/6 drop set 12 reps


-You can increase the number of exercises for legs 1-3 with 12-10-8-6-12 reps---




Ok, now that I have given you way too much information to comprehend, I am going to load up a little more info about supplements and then we’re done.


Supplements you need for CKD:


FIBER –soluble or any other form


Multi Vitamins(MV)/ Multi Minerals(MM)


AdipoKinetix


Ephedrine


(PPA stack on EliteFitness is a very good buy…great quality too)


HOW TO TAKE THEM:


Take MV and MM two times a day (recommended dose), one in the morning and one in the afternoon (around 2-3pm)


Take each 1-3 pills AdipoKinetix with 25mg of ephedrine. 2-3 times a day.


Take Fiber supplementation 2 times a day…once in the morning, and once before bed





WHAT INTERRUPTS KETOSIS?


The only supplements that seem to reliably interrupt ketosis (that I've discovered at least) are vanadyl (seems to affect liver glycogen status) and citrimax (Hydroxycitric acid). Citric acid (found in diet sodas) kicks some people out of ketosis, but does not affect everybody. Aspartame also seems to affect some people but isn't consistent. The anti-oxidant n-acetyl-cysteine can give a false positive for ketosis, but that is all I can think of at the moment.


Basically, the only way to really negatively affect ketosis is by raising blood glucose, or affecting liver metabolism.


Oh yeah, and eating a bunch of carbs while in Ketosis will 100% kick you
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Sep-05-03, 23:01
senimoni's Avatar
senimoni senimoni is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 129
 
Plan: Atkins-CKD
Stats: 175/158.9/130 Female 5'2
BF:??/29.6/19
Progress: 36%
Default

Can someone tell me what a drop set is?


******************************
-(DAY 1-6) For each bodypart do 1-2 exercises with 12-10-18-6 -dropset-12 reps---


ex: bench-press 12/10/8/6 drop set 12 reps

**************************************
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Sep-06-03, 07:23
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

A drop set is where you basically are doing one long set.

You start with a weight you can only lift for a few reps - 10 or 12. Once you've gone until you can't lift another rep you change the weight, or pick up another set of dumbells and you lift again until you can't lift anymore - this is usually quite a few reps lower than you just did. You continue this as many times as the set requires (a 3 drop set requires you dropping the weight 3 times, etc).

HTH
-Nat
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Sep-19-03, 18:45
korry1977's Avatar
korry1977 korry1977 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,526
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 270/265/170 Male 68 inches
BF:43%/35%/10%
Progress: 5%
Location: Houston, TX
Default

OK

I understand that you can do CKD in about 12 week periods... what do you after those 12 weeks are over? and when can you start a new cycle after the 12 weeks?

thanks'
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Oct-17-03, 14:24
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
Posts: 2,518
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 255/242/230 Male 75 inches (6'3")
BF:21%/15%/8%
Progress: 52%
Location: Philly
Default

After 12 weeks, I usually ramp up carbs for 4 - 8 weeks and use those as an anabolic phase (heavy lifting, etc), and then go back to the CKD.
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Feb-22-04, 13:22
Janette360 Janette360 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 131
 
Plan: south beach
Stats: 138/130/120 Female 5 6
BF:
Progress: 44%
Default

Dan, question, I do low carb all week and have rigerous workouts for 4 days. I never go into ketosis! I check the strips and they never have a trace! I know that i don't need to lose a lot but i would like to know why i never go into it. Is it because i chew sugar free gum? let me know it's driving me crazy.
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Feb-22-04, 17:38
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
Posts: 2,518
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 255/242/230 Male 75 inches (6'3")
BF:21%/15%/8%
Progress: 52%
Location: Philly
Default

Ketostix measure excess ketones. You could be burning yours.

I know sugar free gum sometimes bumps people out, so you may want to tinker with that to check it.

When I used to always check sticks, I was never more than mild purple.

If the tape measure around your waist is going down, you are on the right track.

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