Hi Sol,
I reacted very badly to the pork AND beef gelatin at first. As I said in my long "Peat journey" post above, when I started, my thyroid and adrenals were so screwed up that I was reacting to practically everything I ate! (nuts, eggs, all dairy, chocolate, citrus, grains, and, as I discovered, gelatin!) I discovered I was able to tolerate the broths I made when I cooked a boneless shoulder roast (pot roast) and bone broths with no problem, so that was the source of my gelatin for the first few months.

As the health improvements started and the rashes and itching began to subside, the food sensitivities all disappeared as well. I was sooo happy to discover I could eat dairy again! And this happened fairly quickly, like within a few days. It took longer for the gelatin, a couple of months.

The longer I am "doing Peat" and the healthier I am getting, the more I realize how terribly unhealthy I was! And I realize what a looong way I still have to go. We know we are overweight or have high blood sugar, we can measure those numbers each day. But now I realize those problems are caused by things we can't see, like problems with our thyroid and stress hormones, and I realize it is going to take a LONG time to heal those. And for some people, probably me, it may require thyroid supplements. But I want to see how far my body can go on its own before I try that.

Yesterday I had to run some errands and was not able to eat when I got hungry. I could FEEL the stress hormones building inside of me, I felt "wired" and on edge. And then I had to rush around when I got home, fixing dinner and what not and got more tired and stressed. Sure enough, last night I was not able to get to sleep until 2:00 A.M. and today I feel like I got run over by a train. I have lots of edema too. So that tells me that my health is very fragile and it takes VERY little to elevate my stress hormones and wreak lots of havoc with my body. (I told my husband I am going to have to start driving around with an emergency chunk of pot roast and potatoes in my car trunk!) :-)

But the good news is that at least now, for the first time in memory, I know what it feels like to feel GOOD, and when I don't, I really am aware of how miserable I have felt for a very long time. And I am happy to know that I am slowly but surely crawling my way out of that black hole!

After giving you all my history in the above posts, here is a little update. I mentioned above that yesterday was a very rushed and hectic day for me and I could tell the old stress hormones were flooding my body. Consequently, I wasn't able to get to sleep until 2 A.M.. (Of course, until recently, I would have considered that very early since I have been going to bed at 4 or 5 A.M. for the past decade or more.)

I slept later than usual, which meant my eating schedule was thrown off, which means the release of MORE stress hormones, so I expected my fasting blood sugar to be somewhat elevated. It was 125, higher than my usual 110 to 115.

For breakfast, I had a leftover piece of chicken (no skin!), mashed potatoes with cheese, some oj/guava juice combo, and a cup of Haagen Dazs ice cream. My post meal blood sugar reading was 125. Yep, exactly the same as the pre-meal reading. That happens quite often, eating the Peat way. On those occasions when the fasting blood sugar is elevated from the stress hormones, the food provides the body with what it needs to bring down the stress hormones and regulates the blood sugar, so I end up with a normal post meal reading which is the same as the fasting number. On some occasions, the post meal reading is even LOWER than the pre meal reading, which never fails to amuse me.

And as I said earlier, the Haagen Dazs seems to be very helpful in controlling the blood sugar. Peat said that milk with some sugar in it would also work. (And cost a lot less!) :-)

What stress hormones is he referring to? What do they do?

Hi Lynn,
The stress hormones I am referring to are cortisol and adrenalin. I guess sometimes they are referred to as anti-stress hormones, since they are released as a response to stress of all kinds, mental, emotional, and physical.

What do they do? Gee, what don't they do? :-) In terms of the impact on blood sugar and sleep, here is an explanation of what I am referring to from Peat's article, "TSH, temperature, pulse rate, and other indicators in hypothyroidism."


"Blood sugar falls at night, and the body relies on the glucose stored in the liver as glycogen for energy, and hypothyroid people store very little sugar. As a result, adrenalin and cortisol begin to rise almost as soon as a person goes to bed, and in hypothyroid people, they rise very high, with the adrenalin usually peaking around 1 or 2 A.M., and the cortisol peaking around dawn; the high cortisol raises blood sugar as morning approaches, and allows adrenalin to decline. Some people wake up during the adrenalin peak with a pounding heart, and have trouble getting back to sleep unless they eat something.

If the night-time stress is very high, the adrenalin will still be high until breakfast, increasing both temperature and pulse rate. The cortisol stimulates the breakdown of muscle tissue and its conversion to energy, so it is thermogenic, for some of the same reasons that food is thermogenic.

After eating breakfast, the cortisol (and adrenalin, if it stayed high despite the increased cortisol) will start returning to a more normal, lower level, as the blood sugar is sustained by food, instead of by the stress hormones. In some hypothyroid people, this is a good time to measure the temperature and pulse rate. In a normal person, both temperature and pulse rate rise after breakfast, but in very hypothyroid people either, or both, might fall."

I checked and I am "one of those people" who has a lower temperature and pulse after eating breakfast, indicating high levels of stress hormones and being very hypothyroid. But hopefully that is going to change!

Cathy

Yeah, I know some people react that way. I suffer from knee pain on and off, and decided to try an experiment a few months ago of eliminating nightshades from my diet. But the knew problems came and went randomly without the nightshades, and when I added some back in the knee problems still came and went randomly, but with no particular correlation to the nightshades, so I suspect they are not my problem. The only issue I have with potatoes is that I don't really *like* them very much and have never craved potatoes in any way. I guess I'm betraying my Irish heritage, . Especially mashed potatoes. I'd just as soon eat wallpaper paste. Wow, those are excellent numbers! I just tested mine and got a reading of 192. I have not seen a number that high in 4 years. But I did have some ice cream after lunch <sob>.

I met a friend for lunch and we ate at a local place called Holsten's - somewhat famous these days as the place where the last scene of the last episode of "The Sopranos" was filmed, but long famous in the area for their homemade ice cream and chocolate candy. So in a fit of Peatian insanity I ordered some ice cream for dessert after my cheeseburger deluxe, and now I'm paying the price.

Cathy, thanks for your testimonial here. Clearly everyone is unique, but your above experience could almost have been written by me. Lots of similarities. We are close in age. I just turned 59 a week ago on March 30. Also menopausal, also still morbidly obese despite having lost 110 pounds - but stalled now for 18 months or so. Lot of sleep and insomnia issues. I was diagnosed as T2 in early 2006. I don't recall what my FBG was at the time but I remember my A1C was 11! I was 375 pounds at the time at the doctor's office (and totally unable to even weigh myself at home as my own scale didn't go up that high). I began trying to lose weight on a more relaxed and modified LC diet and got down to about 312 by the beginning of 2009, but still no good blood sugar controls. I'm on metformin and have had my dosages increased twice. I got super-strict in January 2009 after reading Taubes's "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and lost 40 pounds that year, down to 272 by that fall. Early in 2010 I had a drop down to 262, flirted with the high 250's for a couple days - but since the beginning of 2010 I have mostly just constantly bounced up and down in the 260-270 range no matter what I eat.

I did get my best BG numbers on the Kwasniewski plan, but did find it hard to keep trying to balance my fats/carbs/proteins to stay in the fairly narrow range for his plan. But also since I got *strict* in 2009 seem to be when my thyroid went totally bonkers. I think I've been borderline hypothryoid for at least 10 years or more. I remember being sent by a previous doctor for extended thyroid tests back in the late 90s after getting abnormal readings - but the extended tests came back showing me *just* a tenth of a precentage point or so within the high end of normal. There was not such an extensive online network for support back then- but I did find a thyroid usenet group, and members there told me that no one really began to feel "normal" until their readings were at the very low end of the normal range or even below and that my reading *definitely* indicated I needed thyroid meds. But since I was "normal" my doctor insisted she could give me nothing - so I just kept on my way. Didn't really feel *bad* - just a hair less energy than I would have liked, and no course struggles losing weight.

But things have gotten a bit worse since going very low carb - my hair has thinned considerably. I also used to be complimented by hairdressers for how amazingly thick and glossy my hair was - but no one has said that for a few years anymore, and my hair feels so thin when I brush it!

Well, I guess I could go on and on - my classic hypothyroid symptom is that since 2009 my total cholesterol has skyrocketed through the roof, from about a 210 total up to nearly 300! Everything I read seems to indicate this is impaired T4=>T3 conversion in the thyroid - but the fancy Endo I was sent to see is a rabid Big Pharma T4 synthetic only who will not even CONSIDER any other thyroid treatment options, and wants to put my on statins (NOT!) for the high cholesterol.

I currently have an appointment to see the woman on May 16, and I know she does prescribe natural thyroid hormones. But I do want to try to address what I can through diet. I think my 3 top concerns right now are:
1) thyroid function
2) blood sugar control
3) weight

I truly hope if I can address 1) then maybe 3) will start to resolve also, and possibly 2) as well.
I do worry about thyroid and adrenal damage and want to be *healed*, not to mask the symptoms. It's like the huge fight I had with the Endo about the statins. I told her they were useless for women of any age or physical condition, and merely masked the true reason for the high cholesterol, which I believe to be a badly functioning thyroid.

And heck, if I can help heal myself with ice cream I'm all for it. I know fizes are never instant. One issue is that I still have a lot of non-Peatian food in the house too - stuff like wild-caught salmon in the freezer. But being unemployed I can't afford to throw it all out and start fresh, so I'll have to try to transition into it as I buy new stuff. Interesting about the personal consult with Ray Peat. I may have to look into that.

have you considered using high oleic sunflower oil for your mayo?

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fats-and-oils/623/2

As you can see from the data it's mostly monounsaturated fat instead of being mostly PUFA like normal sunflower oil is. It has no taste. You can find it and your health food shop and is usually pretty cheap- cheaper than macadamia nut oil at least (unless your lucky like me and live in a mac nut producing country!)

I'm not sure where Peat stands on it, there might be something else about this particular type of sunflower oil that procludes it from being considered a worthy addition to your diet. It would be worth asking if he knows anything about it.

I am not sure where Peat stands, but a friend of mine emailed Lita Lee about it, and she generally reflects Peat's opinions in her information. My friend asked her if 100% expeller pressed naturally refined high oleic sunflower oil would be okay to use and Lita Lee said no, it was "too processed to use."

Cathy

Hi Jem

According to Jenny Ruhl's and Chris Kresser's heavily referenced work, my BGs were not optimal at all. Several studies have shown that a FBG of above 90 increases your chances of having diabetes within the next ten years: http://thehealthyskeptic.org/when-y...t-normal-part-2. Plus, my 2hr PPs were also only barely in the acceptable 120 range. Also, last time I had bloods tested, my insulin was crazy high. The range was (3-22) and my result was 33. All the studies suggest that a person should have fasting insulin below 10. Finally, I have PCOS and women with this have a 40% of being diabetic by the time they are 40. So I really wanted to avoid all of that.

I am not happy with the Peat induced weight gain, but increasing my carbs via gluten free starches (potato, popcorn, rice, bananas) had the same positive effect on my blood glucose without causing weight gain.

Matt regularly tests blood sugars at home, but he doesn't test insulin via a lab or anything.

This is what I mean about each of us being unique. I gained 10 pounds of fat weight in one month eating starch from grains, but I only gained about 3 or 4 pounds of muscle (I assume it was muscle, due to smaller measurements) by eating the Peat way.

The only way to find out how these plans will affect YOUR body is to try them and see how they impact your weight, body measurements, blood sugar, temperature, pulse, sleep, skin, and general sense of energy and well being, bearing in mind that it may take a few weeks of adjusting to the plan to give it a fair test.

Cathy

I love potatoes mashed potatoes are my least favorite though. Most favorite is baked with the skin, and tons of butter, real sour cream, and chives or scallions...........given what Cathy has reported about her experience with reduction/elimantion of sensitivities as she has stayed with the Peat plan of eating, I'd love to try them again someday.



I think my recent numbers may be acceptable/tolerable for me, but everything is relative.............those really aren't fabulous numbers for ME. My neuropathy gets worse at anything much over 120, and over 130 to 150 or so it really is a very noticeable pain increase. I'd really prefer to stay in the 80s, but it looks like that won't happen with the Peat food guidelines. I was there on Bernstein, but again the really awful insomnia kicked up. It seems to me that sleep is more important than BGs under 90. This is all experimental for me at this point, as Cathy and Scarlet have shown/said, I expect I won't be certain of anything much unless I pursue this way of eating for a few months.



Do you know if it was really full fat "real" ice cream, with more cream than skim milk, and without gums and corn syrups? The only ice cream I can have, both for the Peat plan, and because of my allergies is the plain Haagen Dazs flavors. Unfortunately I suspect that since the company was sold a while back, and they've now come out with "Five" which is a perversion of their regular plain ice cream, that they may be heading toward eliminating or adulterating those regular flavors.

What I'm getting at is a tiny low fat McDonald's fudge sundae spiked my BG over 150. It was an experiment for me, and I had to dose extra antihistamine for it, so that it isn't a completely pure trial of low fat chemical fake "ice cream" and real ice cream. But it looks like I can eat a cup or more of real ice cream without a spike that high. I'd be really interested if you could obtain the ingredients to that restaurant ice cream.
sol

I just posted that my neuropathy gets worse over 120, but checking back in my journal, that isn't true. The increased pain can start more like just over 100.

I seem to be REALLY sensitive to "relatively" low blood glucose levels, but in checking back, this is complicated by WHAT raised my numbers.The same number caused by grain/starch carbs increase pain more than if caused by actual sugar.

It seems very weird to me that this should be so.
sol

Hey Sol,
There is a strong connection between neuropathy and gluten sensitivity. Have you ever been tested for that? The blood sugar numbers of 100 or 120 are not high at all for a post meal reading, so it would seem that your neuropathy would more likely be related to gluten sensitivity. You have observed that the pain is more severe when the numbers are related to consumption of grains than sugar, which also leads me to suspect gluten sensitivity.

Do you have any family members who are sensitive to gluten? Parents? Siblings?

Gluten sensitivity has a strong neurological component. It can affect your balance, can cause dizziness, neuropathy, etc. It can also cause extreme joint pain and stiffness and edema. And it can also result in abnormally high blood sugar readings if you are sensitive to it.

Cathy

Cathy,
I apologize for not being clearer. I was referring to non-gluten grain products such as rice flour bread, almond bread with arrowroot flour, and such.
I've been gluten free for quite a while now. I actually went gluten free first, before going very strict low carb ala Bernstein, having read about the gluten/neruopathy connection. Since the grains that really spike my BG are non-gluten ones, as well as gluten ones, I do still have doubts that I am gluten sensitive.
In years past I did two separate gluten free diet (very strict) trials with no improvement or change in my then-symptoms. However, I did not have the neuropathy then, so who knows? At one time dermatitis herpetiformis ((?)seemed to be likely, but that did not prove out either. It was just my decades longstanding allergy kicking up severely.
Since my PN improved tremendously after just 2-3 days gluten free, it would seem to point more to carb intake in general, because I've been told gluten sensitivity doesn't react that fast to stopping gluten. That may not be true in all cases?
thanks,
sol

Yeah, I tried to look it up online, as they brag about their "all natural" ingredients - but they don't list them.

But they are in competition with Applegate Farm - another local ice cream place that makes their own ice cream on the premises. And I just looked them up and they *do* post nutritional data. Ingredients for their Vanilla Ice Cream reads: Yum, I guess Applegate Farm is now off my list too. But if they are Holsten's big competition then perhaps Holsten's ingredients are just as nasty. Time to go to the grocery store to give ice cream a try