Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Daily Low-Carb Support > General Low-Carb
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Wed, Dec-07-22, 17:32
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 363
 
Plan: Higher P/Moderate F + C
Stats: 152/146.6/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default Conventionally raised food, still better than nothing right?

Now that I'm a few days back into things I'm really feeling good and I'm enjoying the plan I chose to follow, (albeit I'm following it very loosely right now lol). One thing I'm struggling with though is that pretty much every 'expert' out there, regardless of where they fall on the diet spectrum, advocates for organic, grass fed, local, 'high' quality etc. And many of them make it sound like if you're not eating food in this vein it's a terrible thing. I would LOVE to buy all my food like this but I have to be realistic about my budget.

When I did low carb/carnivore before I went all in and ended up going into debt to pay for the 'good stuff' vs the conventional options. I cannot and will not do that this time around, but I'm feeling guilt about my factory farmed ground beef, even though I got it on an amazing sale for $1.99lb. And tonight I was so happy about my supper, a steak (that I did splurge on from my local butcher shop), with shrimp. The shrimp was a crazy deal, frozen bags are buy 1, get 1 free this week at my store! I've already bought 6 bags and was thinking of going back to get a few more. But, then I read the label as I was prepping my supper and realized the shrimp is 'responsibly' farmed from Thailand I'm actually feeling guilt over this, because this is probably the bottom of the barrel (or sea ha!), in terms of quality, ugh! Now I'm not sure if I should get more? Is farmed shrimp better than no shrimp?

How to do you reconcile reality with what most plans advocate for, in terms of quality of food? Or do you all eat the fancy stuff and just make it work? I'd rather not get a second job... I guess I need assurance that even eating factory farm raised low carb food is better than eating ultra processed foods/standard American crap diet. Some of the experts make it seem like they're both equal in terms of awfulness?

Last edited by DaisyDawn : Wed, Dec-07-22 at 19:15.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Thu, Dec-08-22, 04:24
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,371
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Right, no guilt here.

Dr. Atkins never wrote a word about food quality, except maybe avoid processed meats with nitrates. Dr Westman learned low carb from him, and continues to say in his clinic that the method of raising meat or fish does not matter to the success of the diet, or his patients' health. https://youtu.be/-upQl69xW9w

If you can afford pasture-raised whatever and buy from a local organic farmer, that's great, do what makes you are comfortable with. But he is OK with patients who drive through McDonalds and remove the bun from double cheeseburgers. Dr Mark Cuccuzella also wrote a LC budget guide for his food insecure patients in WV. Personally, if i hear a new "expert" make claims about meat or shrimp quality, I ignore it and don’t have an ounce of guilt. Btw, there are sustainably, cleanly raised farmed fish now, e.g. barramundi https://australianbarramundi.com.au

Dr Ted Naiman mentions buying grass-fed meat and wild caught seafood, etc. but when pressed on affordability, he also says if you can’t afford or don’t have access to grass-fed beef, whatever protein you can afford is fine. I buy more canned fish now rather than filets. An interesting point he made about the worries some have with conventionally raised poultry having a "bad" Omega 6:3 ratio…a skinless chicken breast has almost no fat to worry about. Same for cuts of lean beef or pork. If you eat the "fattiest rib-eyes" carnivore, you are getting more fat, maybe higher triglycerides. But a conventionally raised, top sirloin or round instead, % wise is less of a concern. The reason why both low carb and low fat diets work successfully for weight loss, they are both increasing the P:E ratio. Low fat meats and fish work well with a lowER carb diet.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Dec-08-22 at 10:33.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Thu, Dec-08-22, 09:48
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,284
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

There are lots of considerations that go into deciding what to eat. There are health and weight, ethics, and finances to name a few. We each get to decide our priorities. There is no perfect answer here. Do the best you can, making the best choices you can make, given your individual circumstances. That's all any of us can do.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Fri, Dec-09-22, 11:59
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

I follow Jean's and Janet's approaches in that I seek food that works best for my health and well being without an agenda for something unrelated. It serves one well over the long term. So, realizing that many consider different things when choosing food, I'm fine with that and succumb neither to ethical pressure nor over-the-top proselytizing by those with objectives beyond following a lifestyle that simply and practically promotes good health.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Fri, Dec-09-22, 18:19
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25,585
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default

Hi Daisy. I'm with the others that have replied. I'm already doing myself a huge favour by eliminating obvious SAD crap foods. By spending more to switch to organic/environmentally-friendly/local etc, I honestly don't picture myself being much healthier. Maybe 1% healthier, if I had to put a number on it? Would I live any longer? Who knows?

I do believe in voting with your wallet. But this usually applies to non-essential things we spend money on: I'm not subscribing to this magazine or newspaper, I refuse to stay at this hotel chain, I'm not eating at this restaurant, etc. Your food groceries, OTOH, are essential... and the price difference between conventional vs organic can be HUGE. Orders of magnitude huge here in Ontario, for most products, if they're not on sale. So if there's no tangible result from it healthwise, and I'd have to get a second job to afford it (like you said,) that's not an option for me. My health and quality of life would be worse.

Now that said, people with specific health issues might choose the highest quality/grass-fed/wild-caught/whatever in an effort to avoid polyunsaturated fats or pesticides, but I think in another thread you mentioned that you don't have any health issues.

I'd go get that extra shrimp.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Fri, Jan-13-23, 09:24
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

I'm in a unique position to determine food content, since I have wound up with a body that looks and works best with whole foods. And reacts violently to things I must avoid, because of my autoimmune illness. I can keep it in remission by realizing where I went wrong and eliminate a troublesome food. Or, I gain a new food.

It's been a health process since 2003, when I started on Atkins. Which is how it works for everyone, which isn't about some standard of quality imposed from outside.

If I listened to the regular protein calculators I'd eat only half of the amount of protein I turn out to need: at least now, while I'm healing. All of this advice is about averages, and none of us is average!

Right now, my priority is to avoid flare-ups. If I'm not spending $900 a month on the drug I'm trying to avoid, that leaves a bit of wiggle room for things I eat for my health.

I FEEL the grass-fed beef. Perhaps because here's a list I need to avoid:
  • gluten
  • lectins
  • artificial colors, flavors, and sweeteners
  • stabilizers and things to keep it from being lumpy and extra processing of anything

This is in order of how much my body will tolerate. With glutens, I'm not separate-cutting-board sensitive, but I still suffer. I've reacted to beef. Which makes no sense. Sometimes, I know I got a burger that was premade with some kind of tenderizer, or has breadcrumbs as a stretcher, and now I have to avoid all of that unless I know the chef.

But sometimes it's a mystery, which makes even labeled foods suspect. Grass-fed ground beef is not that much more expensive, and I've never reacted to it.

I still only spend more if I get more. I have noticed differences in produce where I think some kinds have more micro-nutrients in the organic version. It's dependent on the food and the region and the soil. If the organic consistently tastes better, that produce could be worth the extra money.

Part of my medical budget is about the food, and my own search for the cheapest forms that work for a couple who have different chronic illnesses

That's the kind of calculations to consider, for your individual needs and resources. Might be worth exploring, especially when we are new to eating this way.

Because I have a whole new outlook on food. It's also medicine.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Fri, Jan-13-23, 09:26
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

But to support the main contention: yes. Don't fuss about it if you can't or don't want to.

It will still work.

It's like my favorite vet on feeding my cats: the best canned food is better than the best dry food.

It is about the macros. That's what counts the most. I couldn't have gotten here if I hadn't figured that out, and that's enough for starting out.

Which I find reassuring.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Fri, Jan-13-23, 17:51
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

I agree with those above and also think that grains processed through animals into meat, fish & poultry are better for me than eating the grains myself! Around here most regular beef is pasture-raised but finished on grains, so the lower-fat cuts I eat are not purely grain-fed. Occasionally I get entirely grass-fed if the price is reasonable - typically frozen ground beef, bison & elk that were culled before winter set in.

~20 years ago I thought I'd improve my health with more expensive "Omega 3" eggs and burst out in hives. The poor chickens were fed almost entirely with flaxseeds, which I am allergic to. I have no problems eating regular, less expensive eggs. That's one of the problems with "healthy" foods; sellers may think if some flaxseed is good, more will be better. I once had some organic beef they proudly claimed was fed entirely on alfalfa and it tasted very odd & offputting, whereas free-grazing cattle tend to eat more variety and their meat is more palatable.

Last edited by deirdra : Fri, Jan-13-23 at 17:56.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Fri, Jan-13-23, 19:28
Gypsybyrd's Avatar
Gypsybyrd Gypsybyrd is offline
Posts: 7,035
 
Plan: Keto IMO Atkins 72 Induct
Stats: 283/229/180 Female 5'3"
BF:mini goal 250, 225
Progress: 52%
Location: St. Pete, Florida
Default

Eat the quality you can afford. And like. Personally, I cannot STAND grass-fed and grass-finished beef. It tastes nasty to me. I'm not paying extra for something I don't like.

There are several doctors out there promoting "eat the quality you can afford" - including hot dogs and bologna.

I recommend you not feel guilty or badly about eating the quality you can afford.

As a friend says: you don't need panda-massaged meat to be successful on low carb/keto.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Sun, Jan-15-23, 09:32
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsybyrd
Eat the quality you can afford. And like. Personally, I cannot STAND grass-fed and grass-finished beef. It tastes nasty to me. I'm not paying extra for something I don't like.


I also think what we like might be a clue to what our body is telling us. As a child, I refused to eat all the vegetables I now can’t eat because of their lectin content.

This isn’t always true, because I love bread and corn as much as anyone and they are very bad for me. Something can taste good to us for the wrong reasons like heavy sugar or MSG content.

Whatever our taste buds are telling us, I think the more we eat whole foods, the more our taste buds remember what they are for.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Sun, Jan-15-23, 22:29
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 1,852
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

Here's another vote for "eat the quality you can afford".

As long as you're not noticing some kind of physical problems from the affordable quality, it's not worth getting a 2nd job just to afford the highest quality.

One reason I say that is that one thing that I can almost guarantee you will happen if you get the 2nd job in order to afford the highest quality version of everything you eat: working more hours means you're going to be more worn out at the end of the day, and have less time and energy to cook, which means more temptation to eat out (usually an even more expensive option), or you'll be tempted to just give up and eat junk because you're too tired at the end of the day to cook that lovely panda massaged meat.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Mon, Jan-16-23, 00:55
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,179
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

I'm in the camp of: do the best you can.

Over the years, I've been learning to grow my own vegetables. And get veg from stores for chickens. One is a step better for me, the other a step better for the chickens.

I can't afford grassfed, but after some research that took me down a rabbit hole, the nutrients in grassfed surpasses conventional. The most important is the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. Meaning, meats have the biggest impact on getting enough Omega-3 which seems to be most limiting.

Given my family history , hotdogs are gone gone gone. And bacon is a rare thing. These days we make homemade bacon as often as purchased. Helps with eliminating nitrates. But smoked meats increase risks of colon cancers.

Just do the best you can. Eating keto is primarily for weight loss which decreases diseases like high blood pressure, diabetes and heart disease; eating better quality food is about reducing risk for other health issues like cancers.

Make small changes as you can. For example now that their is concern over beef and health risks tied to a specific biochemical in our bodies, I have been trying to exchange chicken , eggs and fish. Beef I can get free thru a food pantry so it's an expense to buy chicken. Growing my own chicken is expensive...cheaper to buy organic chicken at grocery.

One person's advice I thought very sound. Our bodies are always fighting cancers and winning. It's when there is a failure that the body needs a bit more help. Time for best quality grassfed and organic meats and veg. His advice was eat to beat the cancer, then go back to original foods.

Another's advice was check yearly for dirty dozen. Buy those organic. The list alters annually.

Grassfed is the best but doing the best we can is reality.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Mon, Jan-16-23 at 01:33.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Mon, Jan-16-23, 03:07
Ambulo's Avatar
Ambulo Ambulo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,171
 
Plan: LerC, TRE, IF
Stats: 150/120/120 Female 64 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: the North, England
Default

From another perspective, I am still buying organic when I can find it. I like to know that the meat I get conforms to the UK regulations about what can/cannot be fed to or injected into the organically raised animal. Not about weight loss for me.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Mon, Jan-16-23, 11:55
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Ran into a new wrinkle on the food wars recently when an online conversation revealed that a woman said she had been eating masses of plant-based and had not had a bit of animal content since 2010. Which healed a back injury and has been a way of life since. She was very nice, and we exchanged pleasant talk, so I have no real reason to not believe her. It could be working for her, just as people disbelieve the bizarre food plan I'm on for my autoimmune.

Thing is, I really appreciate the Rice Diet article:
https://deniseminger.com/2015/10/06...thought-part-1/

Which was about how some people responded to low fat/high carb well. (Though I think protein is inarguable and she was blithely downplaying it... which prompted our chat.) And we won't find such folks here And why we come at things from a diet viewpoint that we already know works for us.

I give full credit to the Wahls Protocol for explaining everything so well, but I went right into keto while -- over the years -- she's become more about the ketones and even points out certain kinds of autoimmune are about the lectin load, so I certainly want to keep up with her work.

But she was coming from vegetarianism (which is a whole other thing I see in illness memoirs -- so often) and she added seafood and volumes of fresh vegetables. Now she's more towards being in ketosis. Maybe a stage for some people? Which could be where she should have been all along.

While I started with meat and seafood, added dairy, and low sugar fruits. Not much else action on that front. I venture too far, I get reminded. Currently working with carrots and butternut squash for the vitamin A.

What if just eating real food, properly prepared*, which this nice vegan lady seemed to do from her descriptions of shopping and recipes, was so dramatically good for us?

At least, for people who could get enough protein that way. Combining protein is back -- apparently should never have gone away -- but I see vegans claiming there's more protein in broccoli than there is in beef.

That's when someone believes it and gets in trouble.

*For instance, she prepares her own beans with soaking and cooking, but I understand commercially prepared products are much higher in lectins because she skips steps. This can't compare with the "coke and potato chip" meal that many vegans grab and run with. Nobody is healing up on that kind of nutrition.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Wed, Jan-18-23, 11:25
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I think that including foods that have benefits is important too. Like fish with lots of omega-3's. I always feel best when I'm including fish in my diet. Salmon, yum! I do get the farm-raised though.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:01.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.