Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > General Health
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Mon, Sep-20-21, 12:05
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,500
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default Jr. Member of the Diabetes Club

My doctor has told me I have pre-diabetes. Yup, I have had a few years of not being strictly LC or Paleo. Usually good 6 days out of 7 with minor, and sometimes major, slip-ups. My A1c was 5.8 or an average of 120.

So, I started monitoring my BG and after I got my diet straightened out and consistent, it fell to around 105-110. Not bad, hope to see it get better. But suddenly it spiked to 140 in the morning and is averaging about 125. I can't figure out why. I've been exercising daily. Eating quite low carb. Even have lost a couple of pounds. My blood pressure is stellar at 125/75.

What the heck? Any ideas out there?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Mon, Sep-20-21, 12:41
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 16,017
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Hi, I'm in a similar track. Last year , spring 2020, a1c had slipped to 6.1, this year doc just said, blood tests looked good. No specifics.

I too started focusing on eating more low carb .....

The morning surge, according to one doc on YouTube, said the morning increase of cortisol to wake us up for the day has a compensatory increase in blood glucose.

20 years ago when I tracked big because of gestational diabetes, no one could explain my high morning bg.

I suspect it's a natural surge to get us up and going , to have the energy to track down food.


How high is the morning bg number relative to those with a "ideal" is your question.

I've been looking into a longer IF. Most days a 12 hr window is achievable, but the longer 16-18 hrs is more healing.

I'm curious to hear from others.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Mon, Sep-20-21, 12:51
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 16,017
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

https://youtu.be/Swg05Gv0wMU


This is a general explanation of blood sugar. Maybe a tidbit within that is helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Mon, Sep-20-21, 14:10
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,500
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

It isn't just the morning, it has been high all day for several days. I have been super, super good and still getting readings of 120+.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Tue, Sep-21-21, 03:54
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 12,001
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/27%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

There are many things that influence blood glucose besides food. Exercise! (Different reactions to slow cardio vs intense resistance) Sleep, stress, etc. https://optimisingnutrition.com/oth...ddf-faq-part-9/

But if being "super, super good" means eating high fat, low carb, your blood glucose may be higher because insulin has to hold back more energy. Marty Kendall and Dr Naiman have explained "Energy Toxicity" well in many of their articles, and in the Big, Fat Keto Lies book, but this was the article that convinced me that only cutting carbs and replacing with fat was not the answer to get as lean as I wanted. https://optimisingnutrition.com/wan...making-you-fat/

I increased protein, reduced fat, and increased high fiber vegetables. There are many more links with details how to reduce blood glucose in my success story: https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=484995

The beginning of this one hour video (or podcast) explains why the carb-insulin model does not account for energy toxicity, and includes two simple memes of insulin holding in energy and oxidative priority. The dam analogy at minute 12:45, and why CIM is not complete explanation at minute 42
https://optimisingnutrition.com/ted...ng-in-ketoland/. The entire one hour is worth your time.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Sep-21-21 at 05:36.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Tue, Sep-21-21, 08:19
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,035
 
Plan: DDF (2021 Q4)
Stats: 168/92/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 88%
Default

... I'm another big fan of Marty K for exploring the "whys" - There's a Data Driven Fasting course that's starting Oct 6th I think. You'll learn a lot and prick you fingers a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Tue, Sep-21-21, 09:30
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 12,001
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/27%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Thanks, Thud. Next challenge is Sat., October 9th. Even reading the manual will offer many answers to why some low carbers cannot get BG into "normal" range. https://www.datadrivenfasting.com/optin
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Wed, Sep-22-21, 09:18
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,756
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Another strong advocate for DDF. It's a way to expose what's going on with anyone who stalls and stays at a plateau despite eating very few carbs. Energy consumption in the form of carbs and most likely fat in a low carb WOE may undermine even the most consistent low carber's attempts to achieve an ideal weight. For us low carbers, fat is often emphasized in many approaches and consumption of fat over carbs has been recommended. However, there is an individual limit, and that's what DDF can help people discover. The answer is often replacing some of the fat with protein and low carb vegetables. Good stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Sat, Sep-25-21, 09:03
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,500
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

So I got back on my low-carb, semi-paleo way-of-life and started monitoring my blood glucose. I was averaging about 120 and I have already dropped that to 110 or less. I had a few days where it shot up to 145 and stayed up all day. Not sure what the heck that was about so I contacted the doctor and asked for metformin. She obliged, so I'm very slowly adding that. Carefully so I don't trigger that one very well-known stinky side-effect. Although I've had a feeling of bloatiness after eating, the other dreaded side-effect hasn't happened.

The last couple of morning I had readings below 100. Also, in mice metformin does some really good stuff to longevity and dementia prevention and so on. I'm not a mouse, but one can hope it translates to humans.

I'm hoping with good eating and metformin I can get the BG below 100 consistently and get back my glorious A1c's of not that long ago.

Meanwhile, I eat lots of chicken, some cheese, lots of veggies, and my favorite dessert right now are frozen raspberries (maybe partly thawed) with powdered Swerve.

I also found a pizza where the crust is made from chicken and cheese. Quite delicious!

(I was going to post this on Facebook, but thought better about that.)

Fasting for me is truly difficult and lead to binge eating. I'll take a look though. Maybe metformin will make it more possible.

I had also decided that high-fat low carb wasn't helping me so I really do try to cut the fat calories already. I'm not using full-fat yogurt any more when I have yogurt. I eat a ton of veggies most days.

I will watch the video. A lot of low carbing proponents started to turn me off because they all claim to have a solution and none of them ever did for me. Just like the vegan people, they insist you're doing something wrong if it doesn't work. Lol!

Last edited by Nancy LC : Sat, Sep-25-21 at 09:08.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Sun, Sep-26-21, 08:54
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,035
 
Plan: DDF (2021 Q4)
Stats: 168/92/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 88%
Default

"...Fasting for me is truly difficult and lead to binge eating. I'll take a look though"

The interesting part about DDF isn't at all about how "long" you can fast, it's purely centered around using your glucose meter to to a) check any feelings of hunger against an algorithm that's been determined by base lining at the start then adjusted by your input and b) if hunger and threshold BG are met you eat, if not, see if these two criteria are met again in a half hour and finally c) if you are still hungry, eat and carry on.

I didn't go 24 hrs without eating, ever! For me it was a lot of holding off to eat breakfast and lunch, then over time as I saw my morning readings elevated, I found that I was eating TOO MUCH, TOO LATE in the day and started to pull my last meal timing back and perhaps move protein from that meal (last meal) to first meal.

It's fun to do and insightful for 30 days. There really are no claims that this is the only way - it's more like an investigation with some tools and methods that are readily available.

If you don't have the money, DM me and I'll pay for your first course. If you don't have the time or interest - understood!
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Mon, Sep-27-21, 09:13
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,756
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I will watch the video. A lot of low carbing proponents started to turn me off because they all claim to have a solution and none of them ever did for me. Just like the vegan people, they insist you're doing something wrong if it doesn't work. Lol!

Unfortunately, I'm witnessing similar issues where when someone can market aspects of an "eating plan," the next step is to separate this plan as favored over others by discrediting the others in some way. Interesting world where over time, people who normally promoted the same principles of healthy eating start to feud over the details. While the details may be important for some, the bottom line is that the objective is to learn which plans and foods work best for the individual. One issue is that not everyone is willing to track cause & effect details and do self experimentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
The interesting part about DDF isn't at all about how "long" you can fast, it's purely centered around using your glucose meter to to a) check any feelings of hunger against an algorithm that's been determined by base lining at the start then adjusted by your input and b) if hunger and threshold BG are met you eat, if not, see if these two criteria are met again in a half hour and finally c) if you are still hungry, eat and carry on.

I didn't go 24 hrs without eating, ever! For me it was a lot of holding off to eat breakfast and lunch, then over time as I saw my morning readings elevated, I found that I was eating TOO MUCH, TOO LATE in the day and started to pull my last meal timing back and perhaps move protein from that meal (last meal) to first meal.

Important points here, as the term "fasting" is often used in different ways leading to confusion. I prefer using "meal timing" as while I'm not doing a lot different by eating in a 6-hour or less window during the day with an 18-hour window of not eating from 6pm one day to 12pm the following day, I don't consider it fasting, it's just two meals per day. This meal timing is what I arrived at (or reinforced, rather) after tracking my blood glucose as DDF recommends. It reinforced how I was eating previously with some additional adjustments where I learned to emphasize protein and limit (not eliminate) fat to adjust my energy requirements. When I used to experiment with IF, the "fasting" part was always 24 hours or more of not consuming anything other than water or plain tea. Good discussion.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Thu, Sep-30-21, 08:03
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,500
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I'm going to give the DDF challenge a try. I do find it interesting although I giggle over some of the terms like toxic-energy, instead of too many calories, or eating too much. Yes, I have been toxically energizing myself. Menopause made my appetite explode and getting it under control is such a struggle.

Skipping meals is something that engages gives rise to something of almost a panic at the thought of hunger and deprivation. I did way too much harsh dieting a while back and a primitive part of my brain reacts to that.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Fri, Oct-15-21, 08:10
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,500
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

It's working! I have lost about 6 pounds and my blood sugar is dropping fast. So far I haven't been inclined to binge at all. I'm always scared of waking up my binge-monster, but so far so good. The hunger training is exactly what I needed. I had a fasting BG of 100 this morning which is the lowest yet. I started at over 120.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Fri, Oct-15-21, 10:07
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,035
 
Plan: DDF (2021 Q4)
Stats: 168/92/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 88%
Default

That's terrific news Nancy - As the course progresses toward the end you'll learn a bunch of different strategies for long term. Also some short term ones like if you're really hungry and you've measured your BG twice (waiting a bit between pokes) You simple eat a "nutritious meal" and move on.

On this DDF experimenting i have not had a day where I missed a meal. I have, however, had quite a few that were one meal a day. Ideally I'd like to have 2 meals a day and this is helping my find out ways to make it happen.

Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Fri, Oct-15-21, 13:52
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,756
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
It's working! I have lost about 6 pounds and my blood sugar is dropping fast. So far I haven't been inclined to binge at all. I'm always scared of waking up my binge-monster, but so far so good. The hunger training is exactly what I needed. I had a fasting BG of 100 this morning which is the lowest yet. I started at over 120.

Excellent news and progress. It's a solid way to learn how to manage your eating based on whether you should be hungry. In addition, based on Naiman's P:E, you effectively manage your energy consumption as protein is a great and healthy substitute.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 17:04.


Copyright © 2000-2021 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.