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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Mar-04-21, 18:29
CallmeAnn's Avatar
CallmeAnn CallmeAnn is offline
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Posts: 1,728
 
Plan: HFLC/IF
Stats: 218/176/140 Female 5'4"
BF:27%
Progress: 54%
Location: Houston area
Default Please set me straight

I know that fat, on its own, doesn't make us fat. However, I've been watching a lot of YouTubes about insulin, and the concept that you can't store fat w/o insulin raises a question for me. If you ate more fat than you burned (or wasted, according to the research of Ben Bikman, PhD), what happens to it without the insulin spike that would result if you ate carby foods along with it?
This is absolutely not a nudge toward avoiding fat, and it isn't in the context of the question of whether you'll burn dietary fat vs stored fat. I'm talking about massive fat intake, which may be hypothetical, but I still wonder. Call it a thought experiment.
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Mar-04-21, 19:54
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Hi Ann,

Some are rethinking the claims that fat is a "free" food that when eaten doesn't stimulate insulin, directly increases satiety, or doesn't add to your fat stores. Eating too much fat does in fact increase energy consumed similar to eating too many carbs, which if not burned soon, can stall weight loss or even cause weight gain in certain conditions.

Here's an excerpt from Marty Kendall's recent book, "Big Fat Keto Lies." See Keto Lie #3:

Quote:
Summary
"Reducing carbs and eating ‘fat to satiety’ is a simple way for many people to initially move away from the fat+carb danger zone. But once your progress stalls, it’s time to look to reduce dietary fat as well if you want to increase satiety further, manage your appetite, and continue to burn the fat on your body. ‘Eat fat to burn fat’ is poor advice that rarely leads to more optimal body composition in the long term."


It's a well-rounded eBook that tackles many of the keto myths that have been discussed over the past few years.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Mar-05-21, 03:58
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Dr. Atkins had a Fat Fast which was restricted to small portions of high fat foods. It was satiating and designed to help with insulin resistance, but it wasn't "unlimited."

When I fast or want to skip a meal, green tea with coconut oil works great. Because MCT kinds of fat doesn't have to be digested, and is good for the brain.

I remember reading Dr. Bernstein, who had a patient still having problems controlling her blood sugar. It turns out, she had a daily snack, which was an entire head of iceberg lettuce. She thought it was low calorie with no fat/protein/carbs to speak of. Which was true. But it was full of fiber, and there were stress receptors in the small intestine which certainly detected it. And released insulin as a result.

So there's tricks with fat, but the Myth of the Free Food is only a myth.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Mar-06-21, 07:30
CallmeAnn's Avatar
CallmeAnn CallmeAnn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,728
 
Plan: HFLC/IF
Stats: 218/176/140 Female 5'4"
BF:27%
Progress: 54%
Location: Houston area
Default

I'm sure I am in the camp of needing to burn my fat stores and therefore, I don't just graze on fats. I honestly couldn't say, though, that I eat a diet that's very lean. Even so, I'm steadily losing again.
Mostly, though, my question was more about the biochemistry of what actually happens to excessive fat IN the body, as opposed to what we know happens to excess carbs. Maybe we make some insulin, even if we ingest pure fat. Or, maybe if was really more than we could metabolize, we'd just get very unpleasant diarrhea and throw off the excess. The doctors and biochemists on YT just make it sound like we have no bodily processes to deal with more fat than what we can burn or have insulin to store.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Mar-06-21, 08:08
Gypsybyrd's Avatar
Gypsybyrd Gypsybyrd is offline
Posts: 7,035
 
Plan: Keto IMO Atkins 72 Induct
Stats: 283/229/180 Female 5'3"
BF:mini goal 250, 225
Progress: 52%
Location: St. Pete, Florida
Default

Good morning. I am not up on the science. But, from an anecdotal perspective, if I eat too much fat, it slides right through me. In a very unpleasant way.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Mar-06-21, 09:08
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Fat raises insulin too, it just takes longer, and lasts longer as well.

"While your insulin levels will increase over the short term in response to food, the insulin produced across the rest of the day is proportional to the amount of body fat you currently hold in storage. The more body fat you have the higher your insulin levels will be across the day."

Dr. Ted Naiman's graphic of Hyperinsulinemia as a dam was helpful for me to understand this function:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/ted...phic-explained/

Quote:
Insulin is the hormonal signal that raises the dam wall to slow the flow from stored energy via our liver while the energy in our bloodstream is being used up.

The more fat you have to hold back in storage, the higher your insulin levels need to be.

This helps us to understand why many people low carbers who are obese have high fasting insulin levels. Even though they may be eating minimal amounts of carbs and protein in an effort to keep their insulin levels low, their body is keeping insulin high in an effort to hold their energy in storage until the energy in their bloodstream is used up.


Keto Lie #8: Insulin toxicity is enemy #1

https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...ity-is-enemy-1/

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Mar-07-21 at 05:02.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Mar-13-21, 07:32
CallmeAnn's Avatar
CallmeAnn CallmeAnn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,728
 
Plan: HFLC/IF
Stats: 218/176/140 Female 5'4"
BF:27%
Progress: 54%
Location: Houston area
Default

So there is some validity to my final idea of what might result. The diarrhea thing.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Mar-13-21, 07:35
CallmeAnn's Avatar
CallmeAnn CallmeAnn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,728
 
Plan: HFLC/IF
Stats: 218/176/140 Female 5'4"
BF:27%
Progress: 54%
Location: Houston area
Default

Just when I think I'm actually growing my understanding of this whole thing. So, I wonder why people who with more to lose seem to lose more quickly. If you have a lot of body fat to burn, this shows. you would produce more insulin. Wouldn't that extra insulin cause you to respond more slowly to the diet?
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Mar-13-21, 14:37
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wbahn wbahn is offline
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Posts: 8,651
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 408.0/288.0/168.0 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Southern Colorado, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CallmeAnn
Just when I think I'm actually growing my understanding of this whole thing. So, I wonder why people who with more to lose seem to lose more quickly. If you have a lot of body fat to burn, this shows. you would produce more insulin. Wouldn't that extra insulin cause you to respond more slowly to the diet?


Your resting metabolic rate goes up with body weight. Fat is not completely metabolically inactive. Plus, just walking, let alone climbing stairs, requires more energy the more that you weigh. So, all else equal, a heavier person will have a higher calorie deficit than a lighter person if they are both consuming the same food and doing the same things (and, of course, all else is never equal).
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Mar-13-21, 19:27
Gypsybyrd's Avatar
Gypsybyrd Gypsybyrd is offline
Posts: 7,035
 
Plan: Keto IMO Atkins 72 Induct
Stats: 283/229/180 Female 5'3"
BF:mini goal 250, 225
Progress: 52%
Location: St. Pete, Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CallmeAnn
So there is some validity to my final idea of what might result. The diarrhea thing.


I think you need to experiment. No two people are gonna react the same. I didn’t used to have this reaction when I excess fat. Now I do. So I would recommend that you take a time when you can be at home and experiment with how much fat you can eat.
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