I'm curious how LC diet has affected any of you-all's (Yes I live in the south) ability to perform intense strength training workouts?

Of course it's getting to be more accepted that LC works well for aerobic/endurance type training - but it's not generally thought to be good for intense, anaerobic, "glycogen dependent" type workouts.

Just curious if any of you have some personal experience to the contrary?

well i've gone from 168 to 156 in about six weeks on a LC diet. Before that I had about 3 weeks LC with no calorie reduction and no weight change. In the same time my pullups have increased from 12 to 15, which implies that my strength is exactly unchanged over that time. A variety of other anaerobic excercises (4RM, 6RM, 8RM) have also shown no strength decrease. I would have to say I'm a believer

From my readings on the forum, it tends to be the opposite. I have a miserable time LCing and distance running, but when I've done other things, I've been fine. There is nothing more glycogen dependent than endurance activities.

i am not so sure that theory is so universally held. fast twitch muscles are known to be heavily glycogen dependent because of their poor blood supply, but they are the ones most critical for anaerobic bursts. slow twitch muscles have abundant blood supply to get a little better oxidative performance. It is quite true that the average person "hits a wall" in endurance running when he runs out of glycogen, but then again the average person is not keto-adapted. there is actually a bit of controversy over whether the keto-adapted individual can do as well on fatty acids the entire (lets say marathon?) way as the unadapted can do on glycogen. frankly i don't know how to begin to answer that question, short of asking people how they have fared when they made the switch.

SHORT term studies show that LC eaters do WORSE in endurance events. LONGER term studies show they do as well as high carb eaters, AFTER having long enough to adapt to LC diet.

Try Googling Stephen Phinney, who did one of the better studies, with elite bicyclists.

Also..."Ultramarathon Man," Dean Karnasas lives on a paleo diet during training. He eats no grains. His training diet is moderately low carb.

But for him, a "training run" is most folk's idea of a marathon. It's only when he's running one of 100 mile or more races that he eats lots of carbs, during the actual run itself.

Why don't you go ask the man himself? Charles Running Journal

I'm not in Dean's calibre but I've done marathons, 50 milers and 100 mile races. In his first book he lists all the foods consumed in a 200 mile relay run. Nearly all of it what this crowd would consider junk food: One pizza 4500 calories, one cheesecake 3000 calories, etc.

For a long time I followed the Atkins lowcarb doctrine and suffered poor outcomes in a lot of races. At his level, I would expect him to be burning a lot more fat calories on his long runs. I had a treadmill stress test in August. It showed that at a slow jog I was burning 25% carbs, 75% fat. The Krebs cycle requires a small input of sugar. When I was running 50 milers in ketosis, I was getting that sugar through gluconeogenesis, meaning I was breaking down muscle tissue.

The trainer who administered the treadmill test concluded that my 25% body fat is why I was still burning so much sugar in runs. Maybe because Dean is quite lean he burns a lot more fat calories than I do. But if that's the case, the high-sugar food he eats in races should dampen his ability to burn fat?

The trainer's recommendations included that I run fewer junk miles, add high-intensity runs, stretch a lot more (I never stretch) and include weight training. So far the weights have been difficult due to lateral epicondylitis in both elbows.

Have you ever read the "Paleo Diet for Athletes"? I thought it would be all about ketoadaption and eating organ meats. No, the whole first chapters recommend all the ways you can get carbs via sports beans, gels, Gatorade, etc. I don't eat grains, but I eat a relatively high amount of carbs compared to what I used to for my runs - my performance suffers alot if I don't. I tried adapting but I was getting injured...

I have read most of his stuff, but not that book. I can't quite decide if he's really smart or seriously misinformed on some issues.

I do great with the intense, anaerobic sessions, IF I allow enough time in between to replenish glycogen (from my carb allowance and from dietary protien).

I do whole-body higher intensity strength sessions and wait 3-4 days in between.

If I did lots of anaerobic strength training involving lots of muscles every single day, I would too quickly run out of the sugar I need.

I must say my overall energy is much, much better this way. Before I was as fat-adapted as I am, I would have energy dips and reactive hypoglycemia and bonks all over the place. Now I can skip meals and still be ready to go mostly all the time.

This is a book by Loren Cordain, not Karnazes himself. I was just trying to point out that his idea of Paleo might not be as low-carb or fuel carb exclusive as you might think just from understanding that he eats Paleo. I read Born To Run where Karnazes is trashed up and down and all over the place, portrayed as an egomaniacal running machine. Then I saw Ultramarathon Man and I was so taken with him and his attitude. I thought he was such a great guy. I am nowhere near running an ultra (just zoning in on my first marathon - longest run 17 miles so far), but I really admire those guys, including posters here. Someday I will run an ultra somewhere.

I find that my cycling endurance is excellent on a generally LC diet IF a.) I do not allow myself to become exhausted (like climb hills too aggressively) because recovery is difficult, and b.) if I eat carbs WHILE riding. No pre ride carb loading is needed, and I eat far fewer calories worth of carbs than I typically expend. As a profuse sweater (off the crown of my head usually) hydration and electrolyte balance is my bigger maint item on long rides.

For my calisthenic workouts, LC affects me not at all. I am making steady gains on sit, push, chin and pull ups. Almost back to where I was during high school or basic training PT test days in the early 70s.

I started working out once I was keto adapted. I cycle, lift, and swim without any problems.
I couldn't work out before as I had a hip replaced in 2002. Started lc in May 2004 and started working out Sept 2004.
I tried adding some carbs pre-event for a triathalon and I sucked. I do much better without the additional carbs.

Yeah I knew you were referring to Cordain's book. I was aware of the rather non-paleo foods he touts in Paleo-for-Athletes, and just never wanted to read it

I'm also very skeptical of his stance on the following issues:

- Saturated fat is "bad"
- You should eat lean meats only
- Throw away egg yolks
- Use canola oil
- Eat lots of fruit (Loaded with fructose)

But I like his take on proper sodium/potassium balance, as well as magnesium intake.