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  #61   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-17, 07:00
kirkor kirkor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 188
 
Plan: IF dairy-free keto ish
Stats: 175/175/170 Male 71
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: San Diego, CA
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I don't think so ~inflammabl

Being _in_ ketosis is all that's needed, there's no need to be "more" keto.

Keep carbs down and the rest stems from there.
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  #62   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-17, 10:44
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,210
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Has there been any study whatsoever showing that higher ketones leads to more weigh loss?


According to Dr. Westman, no. Nor with exogenous ketones either.
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  #63   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-17, 11:45
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,756
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflammabl
I hate to do this but I must.

Has there been any study whatsoever showing that higher ketones leads to more weight loss?

Offered in a helpful spirit, here is a link to the P&V study, https://www.dropbox.com/s/ozbkbj6j3...sponse.pdf?dl=0 AFAIK, there is no mention the cyclists lost any weight let alone a correlation between blood ketones and weight loss.


I have a repeatable n=1 of a diet with a more ketogenic ratio stopping binging in its tracks that I keep going on and on about, and it does agree with some of what Dr. Atkins said about benign dietary ketosis vs. cravings and appetite. There probably haven't been enough studies. I think some people's weight problems might come down almost entirely to binges, rather than to day-to-day homeostatic appetite. Although obviously there's a connection, if I allow myself to be slightly overweight, binges are only occasional. Right now I'm in the middle of the first attempt to lose weight at strictly ketogenic ratios, and it seems to be as good as anything else I've ever done to lose weight, in spite (because of)? lower protein than I've usually eaten during weight loss in the past.

The first time I really figured this out, I'd gotten down around 155 pounds, I think it was when I was doing a dozen eggs a day plus some protein powder, at least it started that way, but continued low carb with higher protein (for me, at least). Towards the end, I got to where I was binging very frequently. Some friends were keeping various pantry goods at our house, they snowbird to Indonesia, so a lot of it would have frozen. I ended up binging on honey, maple syrup, macaroni and cheese, corn syrup, ramen noodles. Had to plug my nose and replace these toxic foods for my friends just before they got back. Flax seed with a bit of cream and artificial sweetener.

Jimmy Moore was doing his 85 percent fat, measure everything year of nutritional ketosis then. Reading a lot about the keto diet for epilepsy, I wanted to see what a 4:1 ratio diet was like, that's a diet with 90 percent fat, maybe 8 percent protein, 2 percent carbs. I didn't really think it was sustainable necessarily, but I didn't figure it could hurt for a few months. I went from a full-on binge disorder to total control pretty much immediately.

As far as a relationship between ketones and weight loss goes--I wouldn't expect one, though. If you look at stuff like the A to Z diet--people with insulin resistance seem to do better on a low carb diet. People with insulin resistance defend against low blood glucose a bit easier, for a lot of them it will be hard to get into ketosis. Even for me--weight loss on a less ketogenic diet goes just fine. A low fat diet went just fine for that matter, it's just I'd rebound and then end up higher than I started. Standard low carb, if I went under 170, I'd eventually rebound to 170, it seems like a fairly hard set point, but at least it wasn't 190, barely overweight instead of nearly obese (or obese, depending on what height I'm willing to admit to). So on the one hand, it seems like I can use any old diet to lose weight, but the set point that's defended really does seem to be lower the less insulinogenic my diet, the most effective seems to be ketogenic, but should I blame the ketones or the insulin? A lot of people don't want to admit either into evidence.

Take a type II diabetic with extreme insulin resistance--they may get to the point where they're insulin deficient, and ketones go up. Short of this--a very frugal glucose metabolism can make it hard to get into ketosis, without necessarily reducing fat loss, free fatty acids might be high enough to provide most of the body's energy needs, but glucose high enough to prevent ketosis.
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  #64   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-17, 16:34
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,092
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: GSP and FLL
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Quote:
the set point that's defended really does seem to be lower the less insulinogenic my diet

That's been my experience.
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  #65   ^
Old Tue, Jul-04-17, 06:56
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,275
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/226/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 34%
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for any Ketonix users, some new software is available, I'm down loading it now and will review and post back here...

cool! love new software

This is 2.4.4 version of Ketonix Software.

This version contains another important update to the calibration function. (yes again ... )
I highly recommend upgrade to this version.

Click here to view the manual http://www.ketonix.com/images/PDF/K...-Manual-2.1.pdf

It's compatible with Ketonix Red/Blue (the 2015 version) and the new Ketonix USB (2017 version).

The new Ketonix USB displays values as PPM Acetone (parts per million). The Ketonix Red/Blue (2015) displays
values as Ketonix Units (percentage of sensor measure). The PPM value is a exponential function of the old units.

The manual pages are work in progress and will improve over time. They are accessible from the software (the little (i) icon).

This version also allows to import data from the previous Java version .csv file.

Below is a video of how to download, install, setup and take a measure (MacOS)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaQjZzn1lJY

Last edited by thud123 : Tue, Jul-04-17 at 08:53.
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  #66   ^
Old Tue, Jul-04-17, 09:41
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,092
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: GSP and FLL
Default

The PPM value is a exponential function of the old units.

Careful here because A) that's a better way of reporting the data and B) it's harder to interpret as the error will also increase exponentially also, assuming the sense itself provides a linear reading. A better indication with worse error could lead to over interpretation of marginal changes.

ETA - Acetone is also the most variable of the ketones, iirc.
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  #67   ^
Old Tue, Jul-04-17, 18:26
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,275
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/226/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 34%
Default

I will be careful, Thank You!
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  #68   ^
Old Fri, Jul-07-17, 15:15
TrappaOne's Avatar
TrappaOne TrappaOne is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 217
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 205.5/171.0/155 Female 5 5
BF:
Progress: 68%
Location: Northern Maine, USA
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I gave up on the strips but never heard of this Breathalyzer...I'll keep my eyes open for it.
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  #69   ^
Old Thu, Jul-20-17, 12:53
Faydra's Avatar
Faydra Faydra is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 53
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/203/150 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress:
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Sorry I didn't read through the hundreds of posts here - but I bought one of these things and it's not working. Do you need to also buy a raspberry pi?
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  #70   ^
Old Thu, Jul-20-17, 13:05
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,275
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/226/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 34%
Default

describe not working. When I first got it I didn't realize there was 2 little holes to line up on the mouthpiece and tube. First page of this thread.

Specifically what do you mean by "it's not working" - No lights? Can't connect to computer, etc...
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  #71   ^
Old Thu, Jul-20-17, 13:23
Faydra's Avatar
Faydra Faydra is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 53
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/203/150 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress:
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Sorry - It connects, but doesn't record anything. I didn't know about lining up the holes, so I'll try that when I get home.

Didn't see anything in the manual about that.

It did tell me to calibrate, but the "settings" icon it showed me didn't exist on the app - so I don't see how to do this calibration.
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  #72   ^
Old Thu, Jul-20-17, 13:27
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,275
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/226/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 34%
Default

start with the latest software I can help, screen shots on this thread from earlier version. Here the post where you can get the new software and some setup videos..

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...89&postcount=65
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  #73   ^
Old Thu, Jul-20-17, 13:45
Faydra's Avatar
Faydra Faydra is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 53
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/203/150 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress:
Default

That's very helpful, thank you Thud123.

Wonder why they don't put the latest version on the play store..
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  #74   ^
Old Thu, Jul-20-17, 13:56
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,275
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/226/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 34%
Default

because they are Swedish. They make you work for it

PS, the price has come down on these, good on them!
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  #75   ^
Old Thu, Jul-20-17, 19:29
Faydra's Avatar
Faydra Faydra is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 53
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/203/150 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Ugh - this is a very frustrating device.

I got the new app downloaded, but now my computer just doesn't see it. I've tried restarting the app, my computer, and every usb port I have - nothing.

Sent their tech support an email.

I really just want to toss it out the window, stomp on it and set it on fire.
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