Originally Posted by inflammabl
I hate to do this but I must.
Has there been any study whatsoever showing that higher ketones leads to more weight loss?
Offered in a helpful spirit, here is a link to the P&V study, https://www.dropbox.com/s/ozbkbj6j3...sponse.pdf?dl=0
AFAIK, there is no mention the cyclists lost any weight let alone a correlation between blood ketones and weight loss.
I have a repeatable n=1 of a diet with a more ketogenic ratio stopping binging in its tracks that I keep going on and on about, and it does agree with some of what Dr. Atkins said about benign dietary ketosis vs. cravings and appetite. There probably haven't been enough studies. I think some people's weight problems might come down almost entirely to binges, rather than to day-to-day homeostatic appetite. Although obviously there's a connection, if I allow myself to be slightly overweight, binges are only occasional. Right now I'm in the middle of the first attempt to lose weight at strictly ketogenic ratios, and it seems to be as good as anything else I've ever done to lose weight, in spite (because of)? lower protein than I've usually eaten during weight loss in the past.
The first time I really figured this out, I'd gotten down around 155 pounds, I think it was when I was doing a dozen eggs a day plus some protein powder, at least it started that way, but continued low carb with higher protein (for me, at least). Towards the end, I got to where I was binging very frequently. Some friends were keeping various pantry goods at our house, they snowbird to Indonesia, so a lot of it would have frozen. I ended up binging on honey, maple syrup, macaroni and cheese, corn syrup, ramen noodles. Had to plug my nose and replace these toxic foods for my friends just before they got back. Flax seed with a bit of cream and artificial sweetener.
Jimmy Moore was doing his 85 percent fat, measure everything year of nutritional ketosis then. Reading a lot about the keto diet for epilepsy, I wanted to see what a 4:1 ratio diet was like, that's a diet with 90 percent fat, maybe 8 percent protein, 2 percent carbs. I didn't really think it was sustainable necessarily, but I didn't figure it could hurt for a few months. I went from a full-on binge disorder to total control pretty much immediately.
As far as a relationship between ketones and weight loss goes--I wouldn't expect one, though. If you look at stuff like the A to Z diet--people with insulin resistance seem to do better on a low carb diet. People with insulin resistance defend against low blood glucose a bit easier, for a lot of them it will be hard to get into ketosis. Even for me--weight loss on a less ketogenic diet goes just fine. A low fat diet went just fine for that matter, it's just I'd rebound and then end up higher than I started. Standard low carb, if I went under 170, I'd eventually rebound to 170, it seems like a fairly hard set point, but at least it wasn't 190, barely overweight instead of nearly obese (or obese, depending on what height I'm willing to admit to).
So on the one hand, it seems like I can use any old diet to lose weight, but the set point that's defended really does seem to be lower the less insulinogenic my diet, the most effective seems to be ketogenic, but should I blame the ketones or the insulin? A lot of people don't want to admit either into evidence.
Take a type II diabetic with extreme insulin resistance--they may get to the point where they're insulin deficient, and ketones go up. Short of this--a very frugal glucose metabolism can make it hard to get into ketosis, without necessarily reducing fat loss, free fatty acids might be high enough to provide most of the body's energy needs, but glucose high enough to prevent ketosis.