There's an accompanying graph that shows blood glucose at 600 mg/dl at the beginning of the trial, so there's a reason why I'm stuck on the number, it's because it's the number.

And yeah, that's getting into coma territory. That's a let's get checked into hospital number, not a let's try some alternative medicine number.

Whether I trust Jon Barron or not--making claims of reversing a blood glucose that could be immediately life threatening, and not pointing out that that blood glucose level is immediately life threatening, and that you oughta go down to emergency with a blood glucose like that--is irresponsible.

If that's his claim, and not that of an ignorant 3rd party, then yes, irresponsible. Even criminal. Why hasn't the FDA paid him a visit? Or closed down his operation? There are strict laws against such claims, and the FDA are not generally known for slacking in their enforcement.

I'm still inclined to think that this is an oversight rather than deliberate deception, and an innocent explanation most likely exists. I might find it when I have more time to investigate it myself. Watch this space.

For gosh sakes, I've linked the site where he made the claims.

http://jonbarron.org/article/diabet...on#.Viq8mH6rTIV

If it's an ignorant third party, the fact that they're both named Jon Barron is an awful coincidence.

And despite the caveat included about the total program being necessary for best results;




which might give deniability, except that in the paragraph previous, it says;



600 down to 100 with bitter melon, cinnamon, fiber, and whatever the rest was would certainly count as nothing short of miraculous.

loquat1 said;



Aren't they?

here's one for you:

http://www.naturalnews.com/019405_d...on_Barron.html#

I believe it answers most, if not all, of your objections. Interesting also that Barron himself cites an average 54.48 point drop in BG, which ties in precisely with my own experiences based on your own conversion from mmols/ltr, and bears absolutely no relation to the outlandish claims to which you have (rightly) taken such great exception.

No doubt you will still maintain your skeptical stance. But if that's in relation to the 500 point claim, you are pushing on an open door. Either change your tune, or let's call it an honorable draw.

It answers none of my objections. Why would I consider Jon Barron a credible witness-especially considering the stuff I posted yesterday? Nothing in that article explains why, on his own site, he claims a drop of blood glucose of 500 points as "typical." Even aside from that--he's hardly a neutral party.

No draw here. A stranger's n=1 in defense of a man who's making unlikely claims in order to make a buck off of sick people doesn't get you a draw. This isn't about riposte, it's not about me wanting to be right, it's about right and wrong.

Boy, you sure are one tough nut to crack.

Really? That's pretty rich considering the obscene profits made by big pharma at the expense of those same ppl, but I don't hear you raising your hackles about that. Ever heard of Martin Shkreli? And he's just the public face that briefly peered over the parapet before scurrying back into his self-made hole. Argue your case on any point you like, but please don't whinge about the modest returns made by the alternative community. They hafta make a living and pay the bills too, but they usually do it without bankrupting the sick.

My 'honorable draw' suggestion was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek. A joke; a jape to lighten the mood. It was not intended to be taken seriously. Having said that, I'm not at all certain there is much more mileage to be gained from this interesting exchange. We've reached a point where we seem to be generating more heat than light, and I accept the blame for most of that. My intention was simply and honestly to recount my own experience of glucotor, not to engage in a protracted debate about claims made on the owner's site.

On a different (but related) note, has anybody tried raw sesame seed for BG? It has to be raw - cooked (tho more palatable) doesn't work. I've found one level tbl spoon reduces BG by approx. 0.5 mmols/ltr (teaser might oblige us with a conversion for our New World cousins). I've heard that guava does the same, but not proved it for myself - yet.

9 mg/dl. 1 mmol/l is 18 mg/dl. Is that postprandial or fasting?

For whatever it is worth...I did the sesame seed experiment this am after reading the thread. Blood glucose 97, ate 1 tablespoon of raw sesame seeds, then retested in one hour and blood glucose 92. Not impressive as a drop, but useful to know sesame seeds probably safe in diet. Only problem is that they are not too appealing flavor wise in that quantity.

~ Irishred - Yeah, that is disappointing. Shame, & sorry it didn't do more for you. Agreed re. taste. Toasted, roasted, pan-fried etc is much more palatable, but unfortunately completely ineffective for BG control. Whatever is the active ingredient that helps to control BG, it appears to be destroyed by the cooking process. The other problem I found with sesame seed (if taken too early in the day) is that it creates a very powerful craving for carbs. If you succumb, it's kinda self-defeating.


You've given me an idea that might make a difference to Irishred. If taken, say, 1 hr before bed (rather than for b/fast), it should reduce overnight BG, and therefore have a bigger impact on fasting BG. Night time was suggested to me as the best time by my uncle, so there may well be something in what he says.

Folks, please stick to the original topic about glucotor ... minus the accusations and thinly veiled insults.


Doreen

Yeah, abject apologies doreenT. I did go OT and OTT as well, tho no insults intended. I tend to get just a little too passionate when I 'stray' into this area.

~teaser - If I offended, please forgive.

Yeah, me too, sorry. I guess it's easy for things to get out of hand when strangers disagree on something, since the disagreement is pretty much the sum total of their relationship to one another.

That's very big of you teaser, but I'm not aware of anything for which you need to apologize. Accepted all the same.

As a postscript to this debate, the following might be of interest to readers of and contributors to this thread. It's a comment I left on the June 2006 NaturalNews report on Glucotor. The comment is awaiting approval by NN, so has not yet appeared on their site. It will be interesting to see if it ever does. But there is no reason I know of why it can't be posted here in the meantime. I reproduce it below in the interests of full disclosure and transparency.

Thanks for the heads up on Fenestra labs. Looks like I missed a trick, and a big one. And of course I disagree that Jon Barron is a likely innocent in this, I guess that won't surprise you.