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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Sep-05-07, 10:22
YogaDude YogaDude is offline
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Posts: 45
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 225/177/180 Male 71 inches
BF:14.5%
Progress: 107%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doreen T
quote: "... "carbs" are really good for your brain functions"

This is not accurate. The brain cannot use "carbohydrates" for energy. Like every other cell in the body, the brain uses glucose derived from carbohydrates in the digestive tract. Glucose is also readily made in the liver from proteins and fats, during times when carbohydrate intake is reduced ... which includes the overnight "fast" for most peoople.


Doreen


Actually the brain is somewhat unique in that I believe it is the only organ in the body that exclusively uses glucose for fuel. I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't consume glucose by itself. (And as the reference value for most GI testing, with a GI of 100, it is not a good idea to do so either.) Of the three major macronutrients, fats, proteins and carbohydrates, carbohydrates are the "closest" to being converted to glucose to fuel body and brain cells.

Here is what the Univ. of Pennsylvania Health System has to say of the function of carbohydrates: (emphasis my own)

Quote:
Function:
The primary function of carbohydrates is to provide energy for the body, especially the brain and the nervous system. Your liver breaks down carbohydrates into glucose (blood sugar), which is used for energy by the body.


source: http://pennhealth.com/ency/article/002469.htm

The Partnership for Essential Nutrition also has this to say: (again my emphasis)

Quote:
For too many Americans, carbohydrates -- or carbs -- have become something to avoid in the daily diet. But as nutrition experts know, carbohydrate is an essential macronutrient that provides fuel for the brain and muscles and contains the fiber needed for proper gut function.


source: http://www.essentialnutrition.org/carbs.php

If I was not "accurate" then I guess a lot of other experts in the field are confused as well.

The Partnership goes on to say:

Quote:
Carbohydrates are in a wide variety of foods and are one of the three major macronutrients that supply the body with energy, fat and protein being the others. But unlike fat and protein, carbohydrates are efficiently converted into glucose, which is used directly by the muscles and brain. That is why the Institute of Medicine (IOM), part of the National Academy of Sciences, recently issued a recommendation that children and adults get a minimum of 130 grams of carbohydrate a day to maintain maximum brain function.1 This amount is more than six times more than what the initial phase of the Atkins Diet allows (20 grams of carbohydrate a day).


I have seen different estimates on that minimum level but nothing below 100 gms per day in total. I have run a number of scenarios of how to get to 100 gms a day on P1, but usually end up around 80-90 if you are using all of your dairy, veggies and legumes and most people do not do that much. Usually that one extra fruit or grain to start P2 gets you into the actual adequate range for carbohydrate consumption. So my simple point which seems to have gotten lost in all this was simply that if you haven been artificially depressing the amount of carbohydrate intake for a period of time by following Atkins induction, then why not make a healthy choice and try to get above that 100 gm. total carbohydrate intake level that is recommended by most nutrionists as a bare minimum? I'm following the same program everyone else is here, but I just want to help and provide good info and support where possible. I had no idea that my suggestion would prove to be so controversial. I still think genjo should acclimate at whatever level she is comfortable with. I think that should be with the very first baby step of P2, but others here disagree. That's fine. I'm all good with that. If we all thought exactly the same, the world would be a very boring place.

The good news is that P2, and SBD in general, with it's emphasis on complex and lower to moderate GI carbohydrate sources and frequent meals and snacks is pretty much ideal for optimizing brain function. For a variety of reasons, simple sugars and higher GI carbohydrate sources actually work against brain functions. I found this a really interesting page to read as well if anyone is still reading. http://www.fi.edu/brain/carbs.htm

Best wishes to all on their journey!
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Sep-05-07, 11:01
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
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Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Actually the brain is somewhat unique in that I believe it is the only organ in the body that exclusively uses glucose for fuel.


Actually, this is incorrect. Only a portion of the brain must have glucose for fuel and cannot use ketone bodies instead; the brain stem, along with the medulla of the kidney and the few cells of the body that have no mitochondria. All other cells of the body can and do use ketone bodies in place of glucose for fuel. The body is also quite capable of converting protein to glucose for those cells that require it.
If this were not true, I would have been brain damaged/brain dead several years ago as my plan limits total carbohydrate intake to 30-40 grams per day and I have been at this level for over 6 years.

See this link and this link
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Sep-05-07, 12:27
CVH's Avatar
CVH CVH is offline
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Posts: 299
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 000/200/000 Male 6'2"
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Location: FL, USA
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Quote:
carbohydrate is an essential macronutrient that provides fuel for the brain and muscles and contains the fiber needed for proper gut function.




Quote:
I guess a lot of other experts in the field are confused as well.


Agreed.

Quote:
was simply that if you haven been artificially depressing the amount of carbohydrate intake for a period of time by following Atkins induction, then why not make a healthy choice and try to get above that 100 gm ?.


Too low, atleast 60% of your intake should come from carbs, especially from grains, don't think otherwise, it's artificial and bad for you......

Quote:
total carbohydrate intake level that is recommended by most nutrionists as a bare minimum? I'm following the same program everyone else is here, but I just want to help and provide good info and support where possible.




1-) The goverment supported along of wrong things from nutrition and other things that I will not get into here because of forum rules, just because the food pyramid of death suggests something, does not mean automatically it's right, you have a brain, use it.

2-)You are not following the same program as everyone else here, I have no idea what souch beach is, probably another reduced calorie, eat like you used to before! program or something like that, I eat nothing but animals, flesh and organs, and alot of people don't do south beath as well.

3-)Reading info from the surface without scratching deeply and looking at everything connected to it, is the start of many fallacies.

Since I stopped eating carbohydrates, my mind and body are functioning alot better, there is no use for them, the only thing good about carbohydrates is that things like pop tarts, spaghetti& meatballs, pizza, Mcdonalds, etc.... taste great, but so do 3 packs of cigarettes a day, a 12 pack of beer, 1/2 a bottle of Chivas and some other things..., get my point?
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Sep-05-07, 12:30
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,764
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Ketones are good for the brain.
Quote:
CONCLUSION. These data show that a calorie-restricted KD enhances brain metabolism.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Sep-05-07, 16:03
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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Location: Ontario
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http://www.essentialnutrition.org/carbs.php

I'm repeating yoga's link, in case anyone failed to click on it. Check out the Mission statement; it's sort of a Nicean Creed of government and education establishment carbohydrate supporters. Science by consensus. Yeuch!

The only time I feel stupid is when I eat too many carbs, but that's only because I know better.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Sep-16-07, 08:55
googoo's Avatar
googoo googoo is offline
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Posts: 455
 
Plan: first Atkins plan
Stats: 270/232/154 Female 66 inches
BF:sz 24-26 /22/ 12
Progress: 33%
Location: Central Indiana, USA
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Most of us in this forum must be blithering idiots because we use one form or another of a low carb diet and obviously our brains are being deprived of food. (Never mind the fact that we feel better, we look better, we think more clearly and our families tell us we're far easier to get along with)

but

Because of what the "experts" say, I guess I should probably get my affairs in order because I can see the lights of the nursing home on the horizon.


What a crock!
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Sep-16-07, 09:35
manger manger is offline
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Posts: 71
 
Plan: carnivore
Stats: 240/180/180 Male 6'2"
BF:9.5%
Progress: 100%
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Here is one more reference debunking the glucose myths.

http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.o...1-2-7-11-04.pdf
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Sep-16-07, 10:39
KvonM's Avatar
KvonM KvonM is offline
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Posts: 5,323
 
Plan: food? what's food?
Stats: 234/185/165 Female 62 inches
BF:nothin' but wobble
Progress: 71%
Location: YAY! trees and grass!
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one thing that always struck me was the fact that the liver is capable of manufacturing glucose from ingested fats and proteins. however, the body is NOT capable of manufacturing certain fatty acids (i think it's the omega-3's, not sure though) in sufficient quantities from ingested carbohydrate. just because evolution works by jury-rigging the system together doesn't mean that the system doesn't work, and just because science says "oh wow, the brain works on glucose, i guess that means we have to eat lots of carbohydrates to make the brain work!" doesn't mean that the brain didn't work just fine before that discovery.

i love science, i really do, but i hate it when one answer or one fact gets extrapolated into covering 17,997 different questions.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Sep-16-07, 13:41
ojoj's Avatar
ojoj ojoj is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 210/126/127 Female 5ft 7in
BF:
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Location: South of England
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I sometimes wonder how the human race ever survivived. It was only relatively recently that we started eating carbs on a mass scale - prior to aggriculture the only way we would have got hold of any significant high carb products would have been fruit and the occasional hive of wild honey!

My brain has worked ok since I started low carbing 4 years ago and I still stick with around 30 carbs a day. I'm blonde and scatty anyway, but I was no better when I had carbs - in fact in those days I was always tired and lethargic.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Sep-16-07, 14:42
Rachel1 Rachel1 is offline
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Posts: 1,418
 
Plan: Atkins/IF
Stats: 12/06/04 Female 5' 1.5
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
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I've been lowcarbing for six years, averaging about 40 net carbs a day, most days. Obviously I have not died yet.

While I sometimes get tired and scatterbrained, especially when stressed or after a long day - doesn't everyone? - my brain functions well enough to get me through my job as a full-time college instructor, with a part-time job teaching an online writing course on the side. To relax, I do puzzles (I specialize in cryptic crosswords and "Evil" Sudokus) and read - sometimes on line, but I also read 3-4 books a week.

I will be 52 in a few weeks. I think my brain's functioning just fine!

Rachel
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Sep-16-07, 23:16
GlendaRC's Avatar
GlendaRC GlendaRC is offline
Posts: 8,787
 
Plan: Atkins maintenance
Stats: 170/120/130 Female 65 inches & shrinking
BF:
Progress: 125%
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
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Further to Rachel's post, I'm 70 - I was in the menopausal "brain-fog" stage for a number of years until, about 10 years ago, I got back on Atkins. Guess what? Brain fog lifted and I'm able to function normally again and no, I don't think finishing meno has caused this - I'm one of those people who seem to keep the symptoms forever! You can't believe how ready I am to see the end of hot flushes!!!

Glenda
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Sep-17-07, 06:39
ReginaW's Avatar
ReginaW ReginaW is offline
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Posts: 2,759
 
Plan: Atkins/Controlled Carb
Stats: 275/190/190 Female 72
BF:Not a clue!
Progress: 100%
Location: Missouri
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Quote:
But as nutrition experts know, carbohydrate is an essential macronutrient that provides fuel for the brain and muscles


The one question, which proves carbohydrate is not an essential nutrient is this - "what deficiency disease is caused by inadequate carbohydrate consumption?"
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Sep-17-07, 08:30
Judynyc's Avatar
Judynyc Judynyc is offline
Attitude is a Choice
Posts: 30,111
 
Plan: No sugar, flour, wheat
Stats: 228.4/209.0/170 Female 5'6"
BF:stl/too/mch
Progress: 33%
Location: NYC
Default Is dietary carbohydrate essential for human nutrition?

Is dietary carbohydrate essential for human nutrition?

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/5/951-a

Is dietary carbohydrate essential for human nutrition?
Eric C Westman
Department of Medicine Duke University Medical Center Suite 200-B Wing Box 50, 2200 West Main Street Durham, NC 27705 Email: ewestman~duke.edu

Quote:
Dear Sir:

I read with interest the article by Dewailly et al (1) regarding diet and cardiovascular disease in the Inuit of Nunavik, but I was disappointed that no information regarding macronutrient intake was presented or considered in the estimation of cardiovascular risk. The traditional Inuit diet consists primarily of protein and fat, somewhat similar to the low-carbohydrate diets promoted in popular weight-reducing diets (2). These diets have caused concern among nutritionists because of the metabolic changes and health risks associated with limited carbohydrate consumption (3). However, in exploring the risks and benefits of carbohydrate restriction, I was surprised to find little evidence that exogenous carbohydrate is needed for human function.

The currently established human essential nutrients are water, energy, amino acids (histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine), essential fatty acids (linoleic and -linolenic acids), vitamins (ascorbic acid, vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin E, vitamin K, thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, vitamin B-6, pantothenic acid, folic acid, biotin, and vitamin B-12), minerals (calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, and iron), trace minerals (zinc, copper, manganese, iodine, selenium, molybdenum, and chromium), electrolytes (sodium, potassium, and chloride), and ultratrace minerals (4). (Note the absence of specific carbohydrates from this list.)

Although one current recommended dietary carbohydrate intake for adults is 150 g/d, it is interesting to examine how this recommendation was determined at a recent international conference (5):

"The theoretical minimal level of carbohydrate (CHO) intake is zero, but CHO is a universal fuel for all cells, the cheapest source of dietary energy, and also the source of plant fiber. In addition, the complete absence of dietary CHO entails the breakdown of fat to supply energy [glycerol as a gluconeogenic substrate, and ketone bodies as an alternative fuel for the central nervous system (CNS)], resulting in symptomatic ketosis. Data in childhood are unavailable, but ketosis in adults can be prevented by a daily CHO intake of about 50 g. This value appears to approximate the quantity of glucose required to satisfy minimal glucose needs of the CNS and during starvation. The Group therefore concluded that the theoretical minimum intake of zero should not be recommended as a practical minimum....about 100 g of glucose/d are irreversibly oxidized by the brain from the age of 3–4 y onward. However, this excludes recycled carbon, gluconeogenic carbon, for example from glycerol, and it does not account for glucose used by other non-CNS tissues. For example, in the adult, muscle and other non-CNS account for an additional 20–30 g of glucose daily. For this reason a safety margin of 50 g/d is arbitrarily added to the value of 100 g/d and the practical minimal CHO intake set at 150 g/d beyond the ages of 3–4 y."

Thus, although carbohydrate could theoretically be eliminated from the diet, the recommended intake of 150 g/d ensures an adequate supply of glucose for the CNS. However, it appears that during starvation (a condition in which the intakes of carbohydrate, protein, and fat are eliminated), an adequate amount of substrate for the CNS is provided through gluconeogenesis and ketogenesis (6). The elimination of dietary carbohydrate did not diminish the energy supply to the CNS under the conditions of these experiments. Second, carbohydrate is recommended to avert symptomatic ketosis. In the largest published series on carbohydrate-restricted diets, ketosis was not typically symptomatic (7).

The most direct way to determine whether carbohydrate is an essential nutrient is to eliminate it from the diet in controlled laboratory studies. In studies involving rats and chicks, the elimination of dietary carbohydrate caused no obvious problems (8–12). It was only when carbohydrate restriction was combined with glycerol restriction (by substituting fatty acids for triacylglycerol) that chicks did not develop normally (13). Thus, it appears that some minimum amount of a gluconeogenic precursor is essential—for example, glycerol obtained from fat (triacylglycerol) consumption. More subtle abnormalities from carbohydrate elimination might not have been observed in these studies. In addition, the essentiality of some nutrients is species-specific; therefore, these studies do not provide convincing evidence that elimination of dietary carbohydrate is safe in humans (4).

The usual way to discover the essentiality of nutrients is through the identification of specific deficiency syndromes (4). I found no evidence of a carbohydrate deficiency syndrome in humans. Protein deprivation leads to kwashiorkor, and energy deprivation leads to marasmus; however, there is no specific carbohydrate deficiency syndrome. Few contemporary human cultures eat low-carbohydrate diets, but the traditional Eskimo diet is very low (50 g/d) in carbohydrate (2). It is possible that if more humans consumed diets severely restricted in carbohydrate, a carbohydrate deficiency syndrome might become apparent.

When carbohydrates are eliminated from the diet, there is a risk that intakes of vitamins, minerals, and perhaps yet unidentified beneficial nutrients provided by carbohydrate-rich foodstuffs (eg, fiber) will be inadequate. There are case reports of extreme dieters who probably developed deficiencies. One dieter who only ate cheese, meat, and eggs (no vegetables) was reported to have developed thiamine-deficient optic neuropathy (14). Another dieter may have developed a relapse of acute variegate porphyria (15). However, most of the current low-carbohydrate, weight-reducing diets advocate the consumption of low-carbohydrate vegetables and vitamin supplements.

Although there is certainly no evidence from which to conclude that extreme restriction of dietary carbohydrate is harmless, I was surprised to find that there is similarly little evidence to conclude that extreme restriction of carbohydrate is harmful. In fact, the consequential breakdown of fat as a result of carbohydrate restriction may be beneficial in the treatment of obesity (7). Perhaps it is time to carefully examine the issue of whether carbohydrate is an essential component of human nutrition.

REFERENCES


Dewailly E, Blanchet C, Lemieux S, et al. n-3 Fatty acids and cardiovascular disease risk factors among the Inuit of Nunavik. Am J Clin Nutr 2001;74:464–73.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
Shaffer PA. Antiketogenesis. II. The ketogenic antiketogenic balance in man. J Biol Chem 1921;47:463–73.
Westman EC. A review of very low carbohydrate diets for weight loss. J Clin Outcomes Manage 1999;6:36–40.
Harper AE. Defining the essentiality of nutrients. In: Shils MD, Olson JA, Shihe M, Ross AC, eds. Modern nutrition in health and disease. 9th ed. Boston: William and Wilkins, 1999:3–10.
Bier DM, Brosnan JT, Flatt JP, et al. Report of the IDECG Working Group on lower and upper limits of carbohydrate and fat intake. Eur J Clin Nutr 1999;53(suppl):S177–8.
Cahill GF. Starvation in man. N Engl J Med 1970;282:668–75.
Palgi A, Read JL, Greenberg I, Hoefer MA, Bistrian BR, Blackburn GL. Multidisciplinary treatment of obesity with a protein-sparing modified fast: results in 668 outpatients. Am J Public Health 1985;75:1190–4.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
Follis RH, Straight WM. The effect of a purified diet deficient in carbohydrate on the rat. Bull Johns Hopkins Hosp 1943;72:39–41.
Renner R, Elcombe AM. Metabolic effects of feeding "carbohydrate-free" diets to chicks. J Nutr 1967;93:31–6.
Renner R, Elcombe AM. Protein as a carbohydrate precursor in the chick. J Nutr 1967;93:25–30.
Renner R. Effectiveness of various sources of nonessential nitrogen in promoting growth of chicks fed carbohydrate-containing and "carbohydrate-free" diets. J Nutr 1968;98:297–302.
Renner R. Factors affecting the utilization of "carbohydrate-free" diets by the chick. I. Level of protein. J Nutr 1964;84:322–6.[Medline]
Renner R, Elcombe AM. Factors affecting the utilization of "carbohydrate-free" diets by the chick. II. Level of glycerol. J Nutr 1964;84:327–30.[Medline]
Hoyt CS, Billson FA. Low-carbohydrate diet optic neuropathy. Med J Aust 1977;1:65–6.[Medline]
Quiroz-Kendall E, Wilson FA, King LE Jr. Acute variegate porphyria following a Scarsdale Gourmet Diet. J Am Acad Dermatol 1983;8:46–9.[Medline]
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Sep-17-07, 20:23
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
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Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judynyc
the practical minimal CHO intake set at 150 g/d beyond the ages of 3–4 y.
So a 5 yr old and a 50 yr old should both have the same amount of carbohydrate? Hmmmm....does that make sense to anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judynyc
One dieter who only ate cheese, meat, and eggs (no vegetables) was reported to have developed thiamine-deficient optic neuropathy
Huh...a good source of thiamin is beef...pork too, so maybe by "meat" they meant chicken? or chicken and fish?
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Sep-18-07, 07:10
ReginaW's Avatar
ReginaW ReginaW is offline
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Posts: 2,759
 
Plan: Atkins/Controlled Carb
Stats: 275/190/190 Female 72
BF:Not a clue!
Progress: 100%
Location: Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CindySue48
Huh...a good source of thiamin is beef...pork too, so maybe by "meat" they meant chicken? or chicken and fish?


Nuts and seeds (allowed on low-carb diets) are an even better source!
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