"Did you know... your body has its own built-in Ozempic that responds to the nutrients in your food?

But cheap ultra-processed foods are designed to override our natural satiety signals. So many are now paying for expensive drugs to try to regulate their appetite.

There will be an ongoing arms race between the food companies and the drug companies trying to create more addictive foods that require stronger drugs to resist, all while we're getting less of the nutrients we require.

Sounds like an ominous downward spiral to me.
What if we could shortcut the process and just focus on nutritious foods that create satiety."
Quote from Marty Kendall on X. Finding the nutrient dense foods that create satiety is a personal process. Are you a vegetarian or omnivore? If you don’t like the taste of onions and kale, but love blueberries and apples, make your own list of flavonoid favorites. A good first step is removing UPF foods in a box with a bar code and start making meals with whole food.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ilt-in-ozempic/

That was very interesting to read that fed properly, our bodies already have the GLP-1 and PYY processes that produce the chemicals found in the weight loss drugs.

But as I finished the article I was disappointed that there wasn't more detail about what constitutes a diet that creates the same effects as the diet drugs, basically only saying avoid anything other than minimally processed foods, eat lots of fiber, especially from fruits and veggies.

(For what it's worth, I googled to find out what foods have high levels of polyphenols like flavonoids and carotenoids - and found a few things high on the list that I try to avoid because for me they tend to trigger overeating, others because they produce a hyperinsulin reaction, and others that I already eat almost daily.)


The article seems to really only be aimed at those who do not already have a serious weight problem or diabetes - I was hoping it would have information about whether it's possible to sufficiently stimulate those appetite suppressing chemicals using diet alone to help the many who are obese, but for one reason or another don't qualify/insurance won't pay for/really don't want to take those drugs.


I also wonder about the fact that they never mentioned essential amino acids/proteins or essential fatty acids. Surely they are part of the overall equation in this, because if you don't have those in your minimally processed diet high in polyphenols, then you're still going to be nutrient deficient, and surely that will also affect your naturally occurring GLP-1 and PYY production abilities.

This is the first article I’ve read that talks about HOW these drugs work--the chemical key to mechanics of appetite regulation that seem to result in weight loss. I still have lots of questions.

Do these drugs change a metabolic process in the gut?

Do instructions for success with the drug require a prescribed diet? Do people using these drugs eat less food, and better food, than before they used the drug? If so, wouldn’t the “prescribed diet” alone produce good results for most people?

I don’t have the money for these drugs. I’ve never been hopelessly fat enough to consider surgical intervention. I’m stuck with a lifetime of nutritional experiments that work--when I use them!

I also believe that certain factors of contemporary Culture (American) have fostered the obesity epidemic: cheap/easy food products; work/family lives that create insurmountable time constraints (eg. for shopping and cooking); complete absence of nutritional education for children and medical providers alike; conflicting “expert" opinions; and (worst of all) advertising and marketing.

People are literally born with, or into, hopeless obesity. Where can they find a reason to care?

I continue to be astounded at the prevalence of obesity in our society. When I was growing up (I was born in 1948) obesity was relatively rare, or at least that is how I remember it. The change in the rate of obesity and its accompanying problems has to be environmentally/culturally determined. It is too fast a change to be primarily genetically based. There is so much misinformation out there, driven so often by the profit motive of the companies that manufacture and sell “food” and the drug companies that sell products to counter the effect of these so called food products. Stop the train I want to get off.

To me it sounds like from what the article is saying that the metabolic processes that are naturally occurring in your gut can get "broken" or become so inadequate because of obesity and diabetes that the drugs replace or supplement the missing or inadequate GLP-1 and GIP/PYY. It's not really clear though, so I don't know.

From what I've observed (based purely on the 2 I know using semaglutide), the diabetic on Ozempic seemed to be getting more in the way of blood sugar control than appetite control, while the one on Wegovy was getting more appetite control (and who knows how much lowering of blood sugar) but they both had to keep upping their dosages to maintain that effect.



What I read on the public FB Wegovy group sounds like the people on that group chose all different types of diets - some were even doing low carb. So I don't know - maybe some people have different tolerance levels for different macros and different types of foods on those drugs.

The official recommended diet advice with those drugs seems to be to eat low fat, mostly whole grains, fruit and veggies, with lean protein. I just don't know if that's officially the diet for those drugs because they've found that's what's most easily tolerated on those drugs, or if it's the official diet for those drugs because it's the officially recommended diet for everyone, everywhere... because LOW FAT, HIGH FIBER, LEAN PROTEIN!



I believe you are pretty much on the mark with that.

We did eat better in the 50's and 60's, but not really all that much better - the highly processed food industry was just getting started, so we had things like Tang and store bought white bread, but it was rare to have a canned soup or frozen dinner.

As an adult, I did eventually succumb to the ease of pre-fab foods, mostly at the peak of feeling so crummy because I'd gained so much weight, while trying to keep up with kid activities - those things combined meant just not feeling like cooking at all, which of course resulted in a cycle of eating badly, feeling bad, gaining weight, eating worse, feeling worse, gaining more weight. It's a difficult cycle to break. It is possible to do it - but I fully understand why people give up on it.

Dr Fung talks about this in a recent Ozempic discussion. What we eat triggers these natural biochemicals that triggers appetite control.

For example, meat like beef has a stop 🛑 button.

Huh... I wonder now if that's why Wegovy friend wasn't able to even stomach the idea of eating beef while on the drug? As if just cooking it while taking a GLP-1 med was enough to hit the "you've had enough, stop eating" button.

The whole hunger thing was really messed up though while taking it - this person would sometimes go most of the day not hungry not hungry not hungry not hungry until suddenly... desperately HUNGRY!!! (Then eat too much and end up feeling awful - not that it took much to feel overfull anyway, thanks to the drug.)

Watching this person go through that stuff has definitely make me realize I don't want that med. I may never be able to get back down to a "healthy" weight, but that's just entirely too erratic.

From Dr. Jack Kruse I learned that hormone resistance is the path to metabolic dysfunction. One resistance leads to the next, like this:

• Insulin
  
• Leptin
  
• Cortisol
  
• Death

Because lack of cortisol is serious business. The results are what I am calling faux-Addison's Crisis, but there's nothing fake about it. It's a stress thing, still unrecognized. Think of an out of control panic attack. In my case, chronic stress had and poor eating had so beaten down my receptors they started getting a shortage of all of these hormones. My diet changes worked on all the hormones -- and everything started working as it should.

But probably why my system is wildly overreactive.



Likewise! I got some relief by avoiding soy and lectins, but still had mysterious flareups. Oxalate turned out to be the missing element. Now I can enjoy certain plants. Being aware of anti-nutrients, the concept, was a big step forward. Before, I'd listen to Dr. Ede and keep my plant intake low, but was tormented by poor science and marketing into eating more plants than I actually should.

Still no evidence than anything in plants can't be gotten from animals. I even looked it up from Healthline, which is like WebMD and needs a lot of salt.

10 Nutrients That You Can't Get From Animal Foods

For instance, 2–5 are Flavonoids, but there's no scientific evidence that they are good for us. Check this quote for weasel words:



So how I can trust the article? Actually, I get all the vitamin C I need from lemon juice, which is part of my smoothie/pudding things I make with Greek yogurt and whey protein powder.

Selling produce when the Western world was raised with "eat your veggies, they are good for you!" has only created sweetened and processed forms people eat and feel virtuous about. "Plant-based" now has the same healthy aura as "granola" used to. They get to revive all their biggest sellers with a tweak to the formula and a new banner on the package.

AND 6–10: Dietary Fiber is an outright CHEAT!

One thing I can say for sure is that I do best on incredibly low fiber, which is another reason I started restricting my vegetable intake. I still have things like chocolate, only with portion control and milk chocolate to reduce the oxalate content. I can still flavor a whole smoothie or have chocolate chips over my homemade cheesecake.

I do eat romaine and spring mix without spinach, but not every day. It's a fine choice for going out. A recent lunch special was grilled salmon on a Caesar salad. Or the chopped salad at a favorite cafe, which uses local greens and I can get steak on top. I used to make this at home but discovered that, if I ate a salad every day, it would give me problems. Now, this an inexpensive meal I can choose when DH and I have a date, and feels like a treat.

I also enjoy coconut in its many forms, like wraps, oil in my coffee, and unsweetened shredded for a smoothie addition. So I'm not zero fiber, especially since I've added low oxalate fruit like blueberries and apples, clementines instead of oranges, and we both enjoy more melon. Which, I understand, is mostly soluble fiber. Unlike whole grains

I've discovered I can throw some raspberries into my French press and have raspberry coffee from the juice. (Those little seeds are full of oxalate.) If I use it on my flavored decafs (mocha that thing!) it makes the best flavors taste more natural.

Despite my high hopes, nothing can save the strawberry cheesecake flavor. My sharpened taste buds will only give points for effort.

Seemed like they all used the words "may" or "linked" when stating what the individual nutrients do, with no proof at all that they're necessary.

And even though the article title insists that you CAN'T get any of these nutrients from animal foods - they contradict themselves on the very first one: Vitamin C



But as you pointed out, you can still get plenty of vitamin C from lemons.

Or like me - I get most of my C from strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, and from things like peppers, broccoli, etc, as well as lemon juice like you use.


********

As far as the naturally occurring GLP-1/GPT and appetite control, in most cases (at least the way my body experiences it), the carb content of the foods they listed as being so necessary because of the flavanol content - if I consumed enough of those to satisfy the sheer number of servings THEY say we need daily, that would result in a hyperinsulin response, which inevitably results in uncontrolled hunger - which obviously negates any potential GLP-1/GPT effect.

Articles like this one reassured me:

"So even though the amount of dietary vitamin C consumed on a meat-based diet may be lower compared to that of a plant-based diets with fruits and vegetables, the former has a lower need for vitamin C with higher bioavailability." Do Humans Need Vitamin C?

Part of the reasoning behind that paragraph is how carbs need Vitamin C to be processed. Not eating carbs lowers a person's need for C. That certainly wasn't known when the RDAs got drawn up. Sailors and arctic explorers who had access to fresh meat and -- had run out of the tinned biscuits from their food stores -- did not get scurvy.



Going gluten free was only a first step in looking skeptically at the plant kingdom. But I am certain you and I are hardly the only ones who have these reactions when eating in the way you describe.

We are some of the few who have figured out what is causing them. When I look back now:

• the after-meal stomach bloat was from GLUTEN
• the terrible cramps were from FIBER
• that nausea was from LECTINS
• my immune system can be overactive from all those plant chemicals
• anxiety can be a non-digestive symptom from anti-nutrient stress

That's what really struck me as I explored my limits. So many allergens have brain symptoms, too. Or, instead of digestive ones.

According to Cronometer, Poultry eggs have no vitamin C, maybe that is fish eggs? And liver…two popular items in the US diet
1 whole lemon has 18 mg of Vit C, the RDA is 75 mg or optimised to 160 mg. Easier to reach with citrus fruits and a stealth source…Brussels sprouts. Supposedly high supplement doses do not improve satiety, and may even make you eat more. It's all so confusing.

We know supplementation works. At least, at a public health level, staving off serious disease in vast numbers. Goiter and pellagra are two diseases we don't see much of compared to a century ago. Scurvy was for sailors and polar explorers, and only appears with disordered eating.

Getting enough in food seems like the ideal. I'm a huge fan of supplements but they have also been a guide to how I should be eating. I've cut way down on the supplemental neurotransmitters because I eat plenty of meat. Never took a multi because look at the stats on meat! When I started emphasizing animal foods without the wheat, all my numbers showed I was within the RDA except for D. Another item in dairy, often fortified, but now people are told stay away from dairy! Where are they going to get their calcium?

There are now forms of thiamine which are fat-soluble, which seems to be able to address chronic fatigue issues. That's amazing, and shows that we might not have to resort to IVs of high dose to help people.

We just have to feed them right.

Because I can say with some confidence that had I stayed on the SAD and accepted then-conventional medical advice and treatment, it would not have gone well. As much as I struggle with now, I know I'd be much worse off had I not changed MY FOOD as much as I did.