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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Sep-03-07, 10:47
Juvenille Juvenille is offline
New Member
Posts: 2
 
Plan: Custom low-carb plan
Stats: 187/177/172 Male 6'1
BF:
Progress:
Default Need low carb workout guidance and tips

I'm low-carbing for a few weeks now and actively excersizing.
I'm doing cardio 7 days a week, 30-40 minutes on the bike with moderate intensity , and hitting the weights in the gym 5 times a week. Because I'm following a strict diet, and taking this whole thing seriously, I saw immediate results even after only few weeks which is a fairly short amount of time.

The thing is, I don't want to get any skinnier, don't wanna be too skinny, I reached my goal weight, and I'm afraid that by continuing my low carb diet I might loose muscle mass in the process of losing weight. Is there any need to be concerned about this?
What do I need to add to my nutrition in order to maintain my current weight, and still be able to add some muscle mass to my body, while dropping the body fat % in the process.

I read something about Amino Acids, supplements like Amino 2000, do you things those would help in maintaing my muscle mass. What kind of supplements should I take?

Any kind of help and/or advice is appreciated.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Sep-03-07, 15:36
Kisal's Avatar
Kisal Kisal is offline
Never Give Up!
Posts: 14,482
 
Plan: It's anybody's guess!
Stats: 350/250/160 Female 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 53%
Location: Oregon
Default

If your custom low carb plan provides you with plenty of protein to build and repair your muscles, then you should not lose muscle mass.

Perhaps the folks that post on the Advanced/High Intensity Exercise forum could give you some specific advice.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=114
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Sep-03-07, 18:29
diemde's Avatar
diemde diemde is offline
Posts: 7,547
 
Plan: lower carb
Stats: 333/199.8/172 Female 5'8"
BF:??/39.0/25
Progress: 83%
Location: Central Ohio
Default

What are your macronutrients averaging per day (protein/carbs/fat) now? And are you now eating at maintenance level on calories?

Many of us have extra carbs pre and post exercise, so they are targeted around the WOs. Then the rest of the day is the more traditional lowered carb routine.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Sep-03-07, 19:48
Juvenille Juvenille is offline
New Member
Posts: 2
 
Plan: Custom low-carb plan
Stats: 187/177/172 Male 6'1
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diemde
What are your macronutrients averaging per day (protein/carbs/fat) now? And are you now eating at maintenance level on calories?

Many of us have extra carbs pre and post exercise, so they are targeted around the WOs. Then the rest of the day is the more traditional lowered carb routine.


My carb intake is low, I would say not more than 20g, mostly veggies and sometimes some swiss cheese. Most of my daily food intake consists of protein.
Eggs, Chicken, tuna, salmon, sardines, lean beef are the most common foods I eat.
I started taking amino acids today, the supplement I'm taking is Amino 2000, I'm taking it because it's ought to aid muscle growth (correct if I'm wrong about this).

However since I'm fairly new to low-carbing and working out, I'm not quite sure if I'm doing everything right. Nonetheless, I'm making a good progress thus far, and I'd like some advice from the more experienced low-carbers which work out in order to get into the right track.
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Sep-03-07, 23:09
Gostrydr Gostrydr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,175
 
Plan: close to zero carbs
Stats: 225/206/210 Male 73
BF:
Progress:
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I would drop the cardio to 2-3 days a week and workout with weights 3 days a week if not 4.

If you want more muscle, you have to lift weights...doing all that cardio will impede muscle building..Weight training should be the core of your routine if you do not want to get too skinny.

Me I'm from the old school like of low carbing. I feel pre workout carbs can impede perfromance and if one is over 12-15% bodyfat then post workout carbs are not ideal either.

It is up to you to findout works best for you. If you are doing well and excercising and feeling ok with your current plan, stick to it.

I can go almost zero carbs and do fine and I have seen countless others do the same. But there are those who do need more, so if you feel you do, try 50 grams a day and see how that works. Then try more if you feel you are not laying down bodyfat and you don't experience any blood sugar disturbances.

Ideally you should take in 1 gram of protein per lean bodyweight..then if you are 20 grams of carbs the rest should be good old fat..

I like Branch chain amino acids before,during and after a workout..

My brother Muata uses BCAA's quite succesfully in his program and has made amazing improvements in weight loss AND muscle gain.

Check out his log or PM him at this forum and ask him for his dose suggestions.

a nice post workout shake is 25-30grams of whey isolate, 15 grams of glutamine mixed in water with no fat, immediately after you workout..or if you feel you do need some carbs there is a nice Yam/Sweet potatoe carb complex that you can use instead of glutamine.. I think Jay Robb has this product.



You seem to be on your way, but you are excercising way too much IMO. Workout less, but make it brief and intense..then go home and rest.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Sep-04-07, 05:14
dane's Avatar
dane dane is offline
muscle bound
Posts: 3,535
 
Plan: Lyle's PSMF
Stats: 226/150/135 Female 5'7.5"
BF:46/20/sliced
Progress: 84%
Location: near Budapest, Hungary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gost
I would drop the cardio to 2-3 days a week and workout with weights 3 days a week if not 4.

If you want more muscle, you have to lift weights...doing all that cardio will impede muscle building..Weight training should be the core of your routine if you do not want to get too skinny. <snip> Workout less, but make it brief and intense..then go home and rest.
^^^ As long as you are getting enough protein and weight training heavy, you will maintain your muscle. To actually grow more muscle, though, requires you eat above your maintenance needs, so make sure you're eating enough!

If you're getting plenty of protein, then no need to supplement with anything other than the usual multi vit and fish oils. Protein IS amino acids. However, some like the BCAA's as Gost mentioned, and it won't hurt to try.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Sep-04-07, 06:56
Muata's Avatar
Muata Muata is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 277
 
Plan: Ketogenic/Paleolithic
Stats: 310/179/175 Male 71
BF:44%/6%/5%
Progress: 97%
Location: Irvine, CA
Default

Juvenille, I also suggest that you check out the lowcarbmuscle forum, google it, for more ideas. Remember, it's the amount of calories that will cause you to gain weight, not the carb count. So, determine exactly what your goals are and adjust your calories accordingly. Gost is right on about the BCAAs (which are the amino acids that have been shown that feed the skeletal muscles directly) and the post WO whey shake, which is essential.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Sep-05-07, 23:26
Gostrydr Gostrydr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,175
 
Plan: close to zero carbs
Stats: 225/206/210 Male 73
BF:
Progress:
Default

Ahhh my brother Muata..
Give me your thoughts on this..

If someone were trying to lose weight and let's say they are ingesting 1,700 calories a day.

Let's say scenario one..

65% carbs
25% protein
10% fat

Scenario 2

25%carbs
45% protein
30% fat..

Ok, knowing that insulin plays a HUGE role in lypolisis..wouldn't it seem to reason that someone taking in 25% of his daily calories in carbs would lose more weight..and faster..

I know Mr.Colpo does not by into the metabolic advantages of Low Carb diets, but this is something I completely disagree about with him.

Ok brother ..the floor is now yours..
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-07, 04:50
diemde's Avatar
diemde diemde is offline
Posts: 7,547
 
Plan: lower carb
Stats: 333/199.8/172 Female 5'8"
BF:??/39.0/25
Progress: 83%
Location: Central Ohio
Default

Well, I know you asked Muata about this, but I just have to comment. On 65% carbs and 10% fat, I would feel like I was hungry all the time... Fat is just so much more satiating than carbs. I don't think I could stick to the first scenario long enough to make it work. It really is all about calories based on my analysis, so if these are both 1700, then from that perspective, either would work. But boy, the first scenario be hard to do!
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-07, 06:31
Muata's Avatar
Muata Muata is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 277
 
Plan: Ketogenic/Paleolithic
Stats: 310/179/175 Male 71
BF:44%/6%/5%
Progress: 97%
Location: Irvine, CA
Default

Bro, I tend to agree with Colpo's arrogant ass, but there are some things that I'm still trying to figure out. I'd need to know what the person's TDEE, weight, height, and their body fat %. If they have a good amount of body fat or is skinny fat, then I think that the whole calories in vs. calories out will apply; however, if they are already lean and are trying to reduce their body fat % even more, then I think this will be a different scenerio. Ellis writes about metabolic adaptations that take place when a lean person tries to lower his/her body fat; he says that the body adapts to performing its daily duties on the reduced caloric intake. He cites research done on war ravished countries during World War II and places where people were forced to reduce their calories because of the war. He also talks about the Minnesota Experiment.

I'm still looking for other authors who talk about this because I feel that I'm experiencing metabolic adaptions right now, as I'm finding it even harder to get leaner. So, I'll let you know about the whole notion of metabolic adaptation; nevertheless, I can say that if the person does lose weight, s/he will lose more LBM on the high carb diet than high protein diet because of its composition. I hope this helps and I'd like to hear what other folks have to say too.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-07, 08:33
dane's Avatar
dane dane is offline
muscle bound
Posts: 3,535
 
Plan: Lyle's PSMF
Stats: 226/150/135 Female 5'7.5"
BF:46/20/sliced
Progress: 84%
Location: near Budapest, Hungary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemde
Fat is just so much more satiating than carbs. I don't think I could stick to the first scenario long enough to make it work.
Me neither!

I agree that both schemes will produce weight loss, but the second one (hi P) will probably provide more of that loss as FAT. It depends on the person in question's personal stats, as Muata pointed out. For a smaller person, the low protein one may be ok--you're looking at 106gP (hi C) vs 191gP (lo C). If the dieter was a 4'9" 100# female, then it would be plenty. If the dieter is a 5'9" 160# female, then she would lose muscle on the high carb one.

This is why telling someone to set up their diet based on percentages is not very wise--it should be based on their LBM (or else body weight).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gost
Ok, knowing that insulin plays a HUGE role in lypolisis..
If equal calories are being consumed, and it is providing a deficit, then it won't matter, assuming adequate protein and EFA's are being consumed. If someone eats a bunch of carbs, yeah, it will temporarily halt lypolysis, not permanently. The dieting person is still going to have to dip into their fat stores to provide energy--it's all about creating and keeping a caloric deficit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muata
I'm still looking for other authors who talk about this because I feel that I'm experiencing metabolic adaptions right now, as I'm finding it even harder to get leaner.

An interesting article about how much of a deficit a person can withstand based on their fat mass:
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindan...ew.php?artID=35

From the article:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Now, empirically and based on research, it’s well established that…

a. fatter individuals lose more fat and less lean body mass (LBM) than leaner individuals; and
b. bigger individuals lose weight more quickly

By corollary, smaller/leaner individuals not only lose total weight/fat at a slower rate, they lose a greater proportion of LBM. The whole issue of calorie partitioning has been discussed to death in my various books, especially The Ultimate Diet 2.0.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-07, 09:22
Gostrydr Gostrydr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,175
 
Plan: close to zero carbs
Stats: 225/206/210 Male 73
BF:
Progress:
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Well I'm not so sure calories are the issue in a lot of ways.

I know the basis of any weight loss plan is to obtain a calorie deficit..but why is it that I have witnessed people eat over 3,000 calories and still lose weight?? I am not talking elite athletes or overly active people, but these people who adhere to a low/zero carb diet..

For instance. I had a customer who took in well over 4,000 calories..yes he was active and lifted weights, but his diet consisted of full fat hamburger with mayo mixed in!! He would just spoon feed that in..6 times a day and he did this for months.

I do very well on a meal of whole cream, raw egg yolks,coconut oil and some soaked nuts..all mixed in a bowl and spoon fed..I will occasionally mix in some room temp butter.

Jeff on this forum takes in a lot of calories and has lost a good deal of weight..yes he does excercise alot, but he did a little experiment and really upped the fat and still lost weight.

I am still convinced of insulins role in weight loss...calorie deficit or not.

Now if someone does reach a low bodyfat%, then yes I do believe calories do become an issue then..to further weight loss if one has reached a plateau..
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-07, 09:48
dane's Avatar
dane dane is offline
muscle bound
Posts: 3,535
 
Plan: Lyle's PSMF
Stats: 226/150/135 Female 5'7.5"
BF:46/20/sliced
Progress: 84%
Location: near Budapest, Hungary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gost
why is it that I have witnessed people eat over 3,000 calories and still lose weight??
Because obviously their maintenance calorie level is over 3,000. That's not impossible or unusual. One of the ways we burn calories is through a process called NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis), aka the fidget factor. Some people just naturally burn lots of calories through fidgeting and all-around more movement, giving themselves a higher maintenance cal requirement. Doesn't change the law of energy conservation at all.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-07, 10:35
Gostrydr Gostrydr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,175
 
Plan: close to zero carbs
Stats: 225/206/210 Male 73
BF:
Progress:
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Well I understand the theory of NEAT, but we're talking about where the calories are derived and if calorie reduction is paramount and the only factor when it comes to dietary needs for weight loss..excluding excercise.

My point about this gentlemen that ate all that ground beef with mayo, is that he was able to lose weight with pure fat and protein and at a hypercaloric intake..he was a pretty mellow,laid back man...

So would he of been able to lose weight eating a predominately carb diet at this caloric level??

His answer after experimenting with both high carb,med protein,low fat..then going high fat,high protein,very low carb/zero carb approach.

His answer..NO WAY
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-07, 11:35
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,209
 
Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
BF:?/?/8.6%
Progress: 133%
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Quote:
Jeff on this forum takes in a lot of calories and has lost a good deal of weight..yes he does excercise alot, but he did a little experiment and really upped the fat and still lost weight
.
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