Some blowback on this interview and an apology from Dr Scher. Like him, I was listening to the new science on fasting, and accepted at the outset Dr Antoun is CEO of a company promoting a processed diet. For some in cancer treatment it may be useful and the only practical option. His describing the FMD didn’t bother me, but did others. https://www.dietdoctor.com/apology-...r-joseph-antoun
Adding here to be clear..Dr Fung doesn’t promote a fasting diet food beyond tea.

Personally I don't have a problem with "processed" food. It's too vague a term. Am I okay with ground up hamburger? Bouillion cubes? Pepperoni?



I think this is a question for science. Should a water fast be the first choice, an FMD reserved for people who have trouble with that? Maybe we'll know when they're tested against each other. We can't make the assumption that nothing is better than a little bit until the study is done. Going in, we know some of the likely differences. An FMD will probably result in a reduced loss of body protein vs. a water fast. Maybe you could look at it as a "weaker" dose of fasting--but is the best dose of a medicine always the strongest dose?

Wow. A case study submitted by Dr Fung has been published in The BMJ. http://casereports.bmj.com/content/...017-221854.full

Lead is Myth Exploded and title is: Therapeutic use of intermittent fasting for people with type 2 diabetes as an alternative to insulin

The protocol in Ref 7 is his book, The Complete Guide to Fasting.

Can we foresee a future where the AMA publishes such a paper? Not until Big Pharma loosens its grip on our necks. In the United States it's not about the Science or our health, but about milking every cent out of the pockets of the sick.

Huzzah BMJ!

After listening to the podcast earlier this week, I wondered whether there would be repercussions from Scher's hosting a CEO of a processed food manufacturer. In discussing fasting and maximizing autophagy, Antoun expressed a preference for a 5-day period. Hmmmm, that's the same period of time for his FMD "foods." Unfortunately, I like to IF periodically and when I do, I like to maximize autophagy. Therefore, I'd like Scher to perform a "do over" and get someone without conflicts who has current research about the optimum length of time when one can benefit from IF and autophagy. It may be 5 days, but the credibility of this "expert" vanished early on in the podcast.

Ditto on the BMJ.

Hi! Does anyone know why Dr. Fung doesn’t recommend supplementing with Potassium? I suffered with severe swelling that progressively got worse until I read about adding potassium to my supplements. It took away my pitted edema overnight! I add 1/4 tsp to my water once a day, before bed. When I sweat a lot or exercise hard, I do another dose. The relief was almost instantaneous. But if I go to my doctor here to be tested, she’d probably freak out. Japan is ultra conservative about medication, in general. I trust Dr. Fung, but I wonder what this is about. Does anyone following this thread know?

There are dangers from excessive potassium. Adele Davis, a nutrition guru from the 30s to 70s, advocated potassium versus colic for infants, to be given in gram amounts. One two month old baby actually died from this.

As far as Dr. Fung goes, he's probably biased versus potassium in part because he's a kidney doctor, excess potassium is a burden on the kidney.

I find I do better if I take in some potassium as half salt. But I also find it doesn't take much. If you look up how they arrived at potassium requirements, it's fairly loopy, I think it's got more to do with keeping requirements high enough that people feel that they'd better eat high potassium fruits and vegetables than anything else. If I don't use half-salt, sometimes I'll get stomach muscle cramps, but only when I'm actually using my stomach muscles.

The World Health Organization on potassium;



http://www.who.int/nutrition/public...rintversion.pdf

Blah blah blah fruits and vegetables. Blah blah blah association. I do think there's decent anecdotal evidence for a bit of supplemental potassium on a ketogenic diet (mine, ) but I don't try to get anywhere near the totally made-up recommendation of 4.7 grams a day.

An example of the strength of potassium versus blood pressure;


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9168293

Pretty weak stuff. By comparison, low carb reduced both numbers for me by about 20 points.

Thank you for that, Teaser. I buy the NuSalt from Amazon because I can’t find LoSalt or NuSalt or any of the other half salts. I can’t beleive the improvement it’s made in what was chronic swelling. It’s gone. Completely gone after several years of struggles. It started when I developed thyroid issues and I wonder if that makes me more likely to be deficient in minerals?

Brandy,

Direct quote from the FB page moderators.

"IDM does not support the use of potassium unless supervised by your doctor. We will delete these posts.


Potassium is not needed by most. We can get plenty from our food. IDM does not support supplementation as stated above.

Potassium can be lethal if too much is taken. The only sure way to know if you are low is by lab work.

Because there’s a danger if it’s overused: It can be fatal. Cardiac arrest.

I cringe when I see what seems to be cavalier use of potassium. Too much or too little can kill. It should never be supplemented without a doctor’s advice.
Especially if you have heart issues


Can add Potassium from:

Spinach
Avocados
Mushrooms
Meat"

Dr Westman is equally cautious about supplements. You can take a generic multi, no iron and does suggest salt for the transistion to Keto...if you really want. But no high dose of anything unless you have symptoms and your doctor is monitoring. You can get mineral levels tested.

Delete whatever I wrote about taking a ketoaide during fasting before
My first post on this was in August. http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...6&postcount=977

That’s really depressing. I guess what I’ll do is just use it for my cooking. I don’t get any other salt, really. So, I’ll substitute it and stop using my sea salt. If I start swelling again, I’ll consider a sprinkle of it in my water, as opposed to drinking 1/4 tsp in one sitting.

If you have pitting edema, you may have an electrolyte imbalance that does need to be treated. There's a mineral panel of about 6 that can be tested. There are other serious health concerns that can cause edema, and moderators need to be cautious readers think if some is good, more is better, and don’t double up on potassium with ketoaide drinks, plus using nu-salt.

Janet, you are wise to remind the need for balance. Meeting daily needs for all major minerals is often forgotten. My impression is that we don't get enough salt and that starts the cascade. A little of all the major minerals everyday, using RDA as a basis, seems prudent.

I haven’t had the edema since I started using the LoSalt about a year and a half ago. I never used ketoaides and I’m not exactly sure what those are. I just know 1/4 tsp of potassium salt cured several years of freakish edema. I went to the doctor multiple times about it and was put on thyroid medication, which lessened the symptoms greatly, except in my the summer. That’s when I stumbled onto some Keto sites that said it was necessary and often lacking in people who followed a ketogenic lifestyle. I took it and was cured, literally after one dose.

Interestingly enough, when I flew back to America in May, I sat on a plane around three different doctors who were coming back from a medical conference in Dallas. Somehow the conversation went to thyroid issues and such and I explained my “cure” and they all seemed to think it was related to the high sodium diet here and how I needed more potassium to balance the high sodium here. They believed it had nothing to do with the Keto diet. They think my balance is just way off because of all the soy sauce and miso and soups and pickles that we eat here. Since 95% of my cooking is Japanese food, they might have a point... At any rate, they all three agreed 1/4 tsp one or two times a day was a safe amount to take. Now, I’m not so sure... I’m just going to lay off of supplementing with it and just cook with it, I think.

While I'm very skeptical about the recommendations for overal potassium intake--barring some sort of kidney issue, that really isn't that much potassium for a grown woman to be supplementing. If you're concerned with overload, maybe you could spread it out over the day. That quarter teaspoon of LoSalt has the same potassium as half a potato or a medium banana. It's an amount that might be dangerous for a small baby, but I don't hesitate to take that much myself.