I have mixed views on using AS. I think initially it can be a great help for people to stay on plan. I certainly used sweeteners when I first came back to low carb. I dropped almost all usage after a couple of years though. I didn't have cravings for real sugary stuff but then I wasn't eating SAD before LC - I had an eating disorder related to wheat.

The AS didn't push me back into bad carbs or anything. I do think though, that it isn't very healthy to be consuming them, and I would guess that they might be seriously affecting JM's insulin levels if he has gained back so much weight whilst staying low carb.

If he is still ingesting gluten and soy that might also be a huge problem. Most people I know lose weight simply dropping those two things.

He does seem to be incredibly addicted to AS, and it is a tough one to break for some people. I personally did notice less belly fat after dropping AS - specifically aspartame and ace-k. Saccharin I kept for awhile, then dropped that as well. I still occasionally use some AS but it is very infrequent. I am pretty sure though that saccharin didn't affect anything, but after I gave it up it tasted really disgusting when I tried it again.

So yeah, I think his problem is he has to drop the AS and start eating real food all the time.

I haven't found that non-caloric sweeteners is a gateway drug to caloric sweeteners. I enjoy the occasional goody made with them and it helps to have such things around on feasting days where I will be sorely tempted by things made with real sweetener (and gluten, which I can't have).

At those times when I don't have a low carb alternative on hand I'm able to get through by promising myself something as a treat later on, which I often forget to act on. But knowing I have that option available is really useful. As is having the good cooking skills necessary to use that option!

I think I'm in your camp Nancy.

I find if I stay away from most of the frankenfoods (although I cannot tell a lie there is one I eat regulary) particularly the bread-type products an occassional sweet made from AS does not put me in a tailspin.

BUT....

Unlike JM I'm not eating them daily and I'm not fooling myself that they can be a part of a "regular" LC diet.

I laughed at the AS is a gateway drug. I haven't had sugar since May. I have had the "gateway" AS. I haven't started on heroine yet

Lisa

Carbs or sweet in any form is a gateway for cravings and feeling out of control for me.

I cannot do 'just a bite' whether it be LC or the real deal. I cannot be in a situation where I am 'sorely tempted', because for me that is no way to live. Craving and being miserable was ruining my life.

If I remove the sweet and the carbs, I am no longer 'sorely tempted'.. I am just happily carnivorous and satisfied and able to enjoy life in all situations.

I may be extreme, but a bite of LC cheesecake will end up eating the entire cheesecake before the night is through. Heck, a cup of broccoli will find me face down in a bag of cookies later.

People who can eat that stuff and not end up craving or gaining or miserable are out there... I am not one of them, and I do not think JM is either. I had to go ZC to figure it out and it was a blessing in disguise. He is not willing to do that, although he had initial success when he tried it.

Margot---I hear ya!!

I know there is a lot of disagreement in different carbohydrate controlled factions--ZC Vs LC Vs VLC etc.

I found that following the Atkins carb ladder what types of things triggered cravings, weight loss etc.

Vegetables, dairy, fruits such as blue/black/rasp, nuts in limited quantities, even wine does not illicit cravings. I also have a protein shake that is sweetened with Splenda that does not cause problems.

Wheat, SF candies, Nectar protein powder (which is sweetened with Splenda that sets me off) franken-bread products, pasta are worse for me than sucrose. Strawberries are a huge trigger.


South Beach didn't work so well for me. I was just never able to get rid of cravings. But it works beautifully for others--Judy is in the forefront of my mind when I think SB poster child.

ZC/VLC works for others with amazing results as the pictures on the forum show.

For me, I like the variety of my foods. It works for me. When it stops working I'll have to re-evaluate.

It's just too bad that when JM re-evaluates the light doesn't go on and he says hmmmmmm.....when I cut out the frankenfoods for (how long did he last 17 days???) my weight decreases--it was funny to see that when he did cut out the crap he was on almost a ZC or at least a VLC diet. Somehow that would make a believer out of me.

Lisa

How do you deal with the feelings of resentment of NOT being able to occasionally have cheesecake (or whatever carby foods you enjoy)?

I was far more resentful not losing weight when I followed Atkins by the book. Every time I tried to climb that carb ladder, it brought me teetering over the edge of insanity.

I was even more resentful when I was gaining weight, while keeping my carbs under 20/day last winter. The feelings of despair and feeling destined to be at the edge of obesity for the rest of my life was not doing me any good.

I am fine now, it did not take me long to 'get over it'... but there are times when I do wish I could eat something. I know I have a choice.. eat it and suffer the consequences (which are many: feeling hungover, weight gain and insane cravings to name a few), or get through the moment and wait until my insulin levels are back to normal.

It is a lot like quitting smoking. You go from not being able to sit in a room with a smoker to being able to hang out with a group of them all day long and feel empowered that the urge to smoke is no longer there.

When I crave... I know I have eaten something I shouldn't. Too much cheese perhaps, or a few months ago it was too much HWC in my coffee. The cravings are not worth it to me so I work on being more aware the next day when I eat.

I no longer envy thin people who can eat whatever they want and not get fat. One of the 'mantras' of ZCers is 'only the lucky ones get fat'. There is no better truth out there for me.

My 36 year old brother (who was not fat) suffered from so much. Depression, anxiety, ankylosing spondylitis, psoriases, cataracts, brain fog.. to the point he missed 18 months of work while having a family to feed and provide for. We talked a bit before Xmas about my 'diet' and he was at the point that he would try anything.

He has been ZC for 2.5 weeks now, and he has never felt better in his adult life. He emails me regularly.. the one I got the other day brought tears to my eyes. it was short and sweet:

"Still going freakin awsome... Thank you....Thank You......Thank you......I mean it with all my life!"

It's shocking, isn't it, that one can GAIN weight at eating only 20 carbs per day? I have chosen to be on 10 carbs per day... fortunately, I like my first week's results (lost 10 lbs), but to be technically accurate, I had lost 12 as of yesterday morning, then had a salad at Claim Jumper (36 carbs)... when I weighed myself this morning, found I had gained 2 lbs.

Lastly, glad your brother is feeling better!

I generally can gain if I eat too much protein, even if carbs are very low. However, with too much AS in conjunction with VLC, I noticed I gained bellyfat, which came off once I dropped it all - so for me there was a connection even without eating lots of carbs. Another thing I noticed, was that as as long as my fat intake is quite high in relation to both protein and carbs, I can eat more of them (read meat/veggies) both without getting hungry. I have noticed in the past if fat intake is not at least 75%, I tend to feel unsatisfied, even if a meal is a large steak etc.

Back to the AS - I lost weight drinking diet soda - but after awhile it did increase belly fat slightly. That was without cravings etc. I wish JM would give it another go to give it up. It is not so bad - just takes a bit of getting used to.

Yes! I am jumping up and down (figuratively!), as I "get" the importance of having lots of fat--- not protein specifically.

The more I read about the "French Paradox" phenomenon, the more it makes sense; specifically, eating fat does NOT make you fat. So, having a high-fat/low-carb diet seems optimal for weight (fat) loss.

This is just great to hear (read).

A bit off topic, but one of the things I made myself promise to on this WOE is that there would be little if NO frankenfoods.

Any diet, be it low fat or low carb can be done with whole foods. I think the problems occur when frankenfoods are brought into the picture. Personally, I can't do low fat for several reasons (satiety and hypoglycemia being the big ones). However, for low carb to really work, I think frankenfoods need to be kept minimal/non-existant.

Why? Because our bodies don't really know what to do with those foods. I think a lot of the energy people who start out LC get is because, for once, their bodies are ONLY getting real foods. It's like suddenly our bodies say "hey, we know what to do with this, and we're not backlogged trying to deal with those weird things--cool!"

I don't think it's coincidence that our bodies process different forms of vitamins/minerals differently. Take iron. Most of the iron in supplements is useless. The best uptake? Heme iron. You know, the stuff in blood. So eating lots of stuff that contains blood (hence red meat, things like blood sausage, liver) is better for iron absorption than is spinach.

Not all sources of food are equal. Grains 'can' be okay to eat, if properly processed (google Traditional Foods for more info). Even then, only during times of famine or the really, really, really poor did grains make up the bulk of the diet. That says something.

Ami

I don't think you are extreme in your triggers/cravings at all. I think that is why a lot of us are here on this forum.

I can think of a handful of things right off the bat where if I had just one-I would want to keep eating them until my belly was distended (LC or not): Pizza, pasta, cookies, cashews, ice cream, Atkins bars, Russel Stover Sugar-Free turtles. I used to take a lot of Tums.

But there are also things I am fine with. The very rare bit of 85% dark chocolate and the daily liquid stevia in my coffee. The stevia doesn't seem to be affecting my weight loss so far or cause any cravings-so I am fine to keep it in for now.



When you have been eating mainly meat (or 100% meat) for awhile, you just don't have the craving for dessert or anything sweet. You also do not have cravings in between meals, and you are not hungry again for 6-8 hours or more. Any feelings of deprivation are quickly replaced by a feeling of liberation- that is similar to how some people feel on induction but much more powerful.

Edit: I just had an 8 oz. porterhouse steak that was beyond delicious!

Yes! Read my siggy.

When my son wants a cookie, I bake him a cookie. All natural ingrediants, milk , sugar, the works. I do not believe in fake LC food, only real food for my family. Do I think the cookies are healthy? Nope, but I do think they are better than some chemical crap called LC ice cream.

Mark, come join us in eating the ZC WOE. You seem like you have your head in place for it.