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  #301   ^
Old Tue, Jan-09-18, 13:01
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
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Plan: LC--Atkins
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Wow I am surprised at how much hate for Opra and ww is on this thread
Madeyna, I think you're reading a bit too much into these comments. Nobody "hates" Oprah, let alone Weight Watchers.

Plenty of people have succeeded on WW, including Oprah. Some of us just have our doubts that WW is a "sustainable" eating plan--just as many MORE people out there in the world doubt the "sustainability" of low-carb, or any other "diet" for that matter.

We all recognize that celebrity endorsement is a powerful marketing strategy. And I personally believe that Oprah--at least from one moment to the next--sincerely believes in the products and people she endorses. As with the rest of us, sometimes it doesn't work out as well as we hoped.

This thread is in the "war zone" because we all have strong opinions about these things--in line with our dismay that people are being duped or fleeced or, worse, harmed by dieting strategies or drugs or products that don't work--or don't work forever anyway.

One criticism of WW is that it transforms itself over time, and seems to adhere to no fixed principle of weight management. "Anything that works for you, we'll help you do it--and you can pay us!!" Hmmmm. Marketing.

Let's all keep our sense of humor about ourselves and our struggles. Even celebrities are human--and tend to look just like US on their days off screen.
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  #302   ^
Old Tue, Jan-09-18, 15:16
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
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Originally Posted by madeyna
Wow I am surprised at how much hate for Opra and ww is on this thread. The program works I have used it in the past and didn,t get a huge repound regain . I did it with friends who also didn,t get fast rebound regain. Unlike atkins where almost everybody I know that goes on it sees a regain of more than they lost much faster than they lost it. Opra may not want to see but she is a carb addict just like a lot of us here. I see her justifying her carbs just like a drug or alcoholic does. Reality is if your any kind of addict that's a process you will probly spend much of your life doing over and over and you convince your self its okay. Hopefully at some point everybody will break that cycle and find something that works for them, all diets work they just don,t all work for everybody. I applaud anyone finding a plan that works for them at their current stage of life. There is nothing wrong that she will make money pushing some thing she believes in. That's what America is all about, if you don,t like it don,t buy it .Pretty simple.

Any derision (I wouldn't call it hate - that's far too strong of a word) I have for WW and Oprah's involvement in it stems purely from the way that they present it as if theirs is really the only logical and lasting way to lose weight: count an assigned number of points (based on their inconsistent way of assigning vastly different amounts of points to an equal number of calories, depending on whether the food contains fat, saturated fat, or no fat at all), then frequently change how many points you're allowed, whether any foods are point-free, and which foods are point-free, so that you're essentially constantly changing diets, even though it's still considered to be the same diet.

One of the things that gets to me is that for all intents and purposes, they're saying "last year we said this is THE BEST DIET EVER, and now we've decided it's not, so we've changed it it, and now it really is THE BEST DIET EVER!" Of course that was the message the year before when they changed the diet, and the year before that when they changed the diet again, and will be the next year, when they will (most likely) change it yet again. I have a problem with how lucrative it is for a company to admit that they were wrong so many times in as many years, simply because they've come up with something new each year, something that ends up not being the best diet ever for so many people. (To put that in perspective, I also have a problem with how meteorologists can still be paid to be wrong in their weather forecasts so much of the time.)

Being so carb sensitive, I know for sure that past versions of WW wouldn't have worked well for me, because there was far too much emphasis on carbs to fill you up, and pressure to reduce fat cals to the point where I would have felt no satiation at all (due to the way that fat cals are assigned a higher point count than carb cals). Sure, for whatever amount of time I could have white knuckled my way through it, I would have lost, but as often as I've tried to cut cals and fats in the past, I know that I always reach a breaking point, and when I do, the rebound weight gain is very fast, and usually far more than I initially lost. A lot of people are like that, and it's not a lack of willpower - it takes extreme willpower to make it through even a few months feeling like that before you reach a breaking point.

As I said before though, I think at least in this newest incarnation, it would be possible to do a LC version of WW, now that they have so many free protein sources, as long as you spent every one of your points for fats. For those who are like me (very carb sensitive), they'd still need to keep track of their carbs though, to make sure they stayed LC - the truly carb sensitive couldn't just eat freely from the entire free food list and expect it to work, because the more corn, beans, and legumes, the more insulin reaction they would have, and the more carby free foods they'd want to eat, to the point that they could end up gaining weight instead of losing.

Honestly, if LC was set up in such a way that everyone was expected to eat one specific level of carb consumption, or if my carb allowance was based purely on my weight/age/activity level, I would rebel at that too.

I've seen people do OK on WW, but the vast majority of them seem to give up on it after a couple of months (if they last that long). Those are the ones who white knuckled it through their time on the diet, mainly because with the diet being geared towards LF they were eating far more carbs than their specific body could handle, since the diet says that no food is off limits, just stay within your points... but they couldn't stay within their points, because eating the way the diet allows set off such intense cravings that they couldn't control them, so they reached a breaking point, and went off the rails. When people who don't have problems with carbs, and are doing fine with the point limits reiterate that no food is off limits, just stay within your points, then all the blame lands on you for not being able to stick to the diet. More shame, guilt and diet failure for people who don't understand that for them, it's not all about the calories - there's intense cravings and hunger set off by your body's insulin reaction to the LF diet that's higher in carbs than your body can handle.

I fully acknowledge that it's not like that for everyone, but I hate that so much of what is considered gospel in the diet and nutrition world declares that it's always all about cutting fat and calories to lose weight - it simply doesn't work like that for some of us. It just becomes a prescription for being miserable for a few months with very little weight loss to show for it, before you finally reach your breaking point, go off the rails, and regain twice what little you lost during those few months.

Of course, people who go off their diet regain, including in the LC world. No matter how you lost the weight, you can't expect to go off your diet, return to your old eating habits, and somehow magically maintain your weight loss. It isn't going to happen. If you want to maintain your losses, you need to find a diet you can stick with for life - The question is which way can you sustain eating for life? For those of us who are long time LCers, the answer is going to be LC. For those who don't have the metabolic problems related to a LFHC diet, it might be sticking to a WW style diet based purely on calories and keeping fat intake low.
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  #303   ^
Old Tue, Jan-09-18, 18:24
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JLx JLx is offline
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Plan: High protein, lower fat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barb712

I can't stand Oprah Winfrey but must say she's the perfect Pied Piper of yo-yo dieting. I secretly wish for her to blow up like a balloon while pu$hing product. The infuriating thing is people won't care.


Don't you mean not so secretly?

There are plenty of lc-followers guilty of losing/gaining/losing.

I suspect Oprah has found something that works for her and I'm happy to see her keep the pounds off as we all know how she's struggled through the years.

Quote:
I blurted out, “she’s fatter than I am! Why is she selling a weight loss product?”


I thought she looked great at the Golden Globes. She strikes me as a person who is maybe meant to have a body type some pounds over the Hollywood ideal. I know at one time she was following the ideas of Geneen Roth about making peace with food, not necessarily being as thin as possible. I wish her all the best and for people following the SAD enough to keep gaining weight, as many do, WW is a better, healthier alternative, imo.
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  #304   ^
Old Mon, Jan-29-18, 15:01
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLx
I thought she looked great at the Golden Globes. She strikes me as a person who is maybe meant to have a body type some pounds over the Hollywood ideal. I know at one time she was following the ideas of Geneen Roth about making peace with food, not necessarily being as thin as possible.
I didn't see the Golden Globes, nor have a seen any photos of Oprah lately. Well I think I saw a copy of O magazine in the supermarket checkout line lately and thinking that Oprah looked quite good on the cover. But of course can one trust any magazine cover with all their airbrushing and Photoshop manipulation? And don't forget that they say photos and TV/movies add pounds to how you actually look. If we happened to meet Oprah IRL she might look pretty good. And don't forget that we have our own LC "gurus" who are hardly skinny either. Can I say Jimmy Moore? Or can I say ME? Not that I'm a "guru" but despite keeping 100 pounds off for many years on LC I'm still stalled at the same heavy weight I've always stalled at over the last 25 years or more.
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  #305   ^
Old Fri, Mar-02-18, 11:00
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
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So, now WW will try a "Summer of Impact".
Healthy is the new skinny (can’t you have both?)
It will include efforts to replace the crap in their foods (like the three boxes of frozen desserts pictured..try to find any real food there) with a fresh meal kit delivery.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...inny-2018-02-28
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  #306   ^
Old Fri, Mar-02-18, 19:27
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
So, now WW will try a "Summer of Impact".
Healthy is the new skinny (can’t you have both?)
It will include efforts to replace the crap in their foods (like the three boxes of frozen desserts pictured..try to find any real food there) with a fresh meal kit delivery.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...inny-2018-02-28
I guess that they are giving up on weight loss as a goal as many never have it. Healthy is a nice goal, but not easily measured. I'm sure that WW will convince their new members that they are healthier by just buying WW products.
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  #307   ^
Old Fri, Mar-02-18, 22:23
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
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Rerun of The Emperor's New Clothes. Yeah, you're not losing weight, but, wow, you're now healthy!!!
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  #308   ^
Old Sat, Mar-03-18, 07:03
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Is 13 too young for a diet? Weight Watchers doesn't think so

#WakeUpWeightWatchers campaign responds to offer of free memberships for overweight teens


By Vik Adhopia, CBC News, Last Updated: Mar 02, 2018 6:43 AM ET

link to article

link to video, CBC's "The National" news clip

Quote:
Weight Watchers is facing a mounting backlash for opening its doors to teenagers.

In February, the world's oldest and largest weight-loss company announced it will offer children ages 13 to 17 free summer memberships as part of its strategy to more than double revenue and memberships by the end of 2020.

"They will have free access to Weight Watchers when they join with an adult, helping them develop healthy habits at a critical life stage," new CEO Mindy Grossman said during an employee event in New York on Feb. 7.

She told the audience she accompanied her mother to Weight Watchers meetings when she was 14.

"I was feeling very insecure. I had this desperate desire to be a cheerleader. I did it with my mom. I lost weight. I felt better."

Both the National Eating Disorder Information Centre of Canada (NEDIC) and the National Eating Disorders Association in the U.S. have condemned the offer.

NEDIC spokesperson Kelsey Johnston said dieting is a significant risk factor in young people for developing eating disorders. The organization said approximately one in five Canadian teenagers is already dieting.

​"[Weight Watchers] stated that it is not a diet program, but with a name like Weight Watchers ... we think that preoccupation with body image is problematic for young people," she said.

The social media campaign #WakeUpWeightWatchers and a petition on Change.org call on the company to rescind its offer to teens.

In response to the pressure, Weight Watchers offered assurances that its teen weight-loss program will be responsible.

"We know that the teenage years are in a critical life stage for developing healthy habits, and opening WW to teens with consent from a parent/guardian is about families getting healthier," the company said in a statement. "We have and will continue to talk with health-care professionals about the criteria and guidelines as we get ready to launch this program."


'That's not their place'

Toronto dietitian Rosie Schwartz is not persuaded.

"But the kids are still coming in, and the first thing that would happen is that they would be weighed on the scale. And that's the issue — weighing kids at that point is not what should be happening."

Schwartz's clients include young people who are overweight or living with obesity. She said the child obesity epidemic is a symptom of a deeper problem that is often not addressed by dieting.

"We need to change the food environment for kids," she said. "Families need to be eating better together. Families need to know how to cook. Parents need to know how to cook and kids should get into the kitchen, prepare food."

Toronto university student Katelynne Edmonds, who is recovering from an eating disorder that began in her teens, agrees that minors joining Weight Watchers is not a good idea.

"Introducing young teens to a diet culture is such a slippery slope."

The 25-year-old said there definitely needs to be a place where teens can get help if their weight is affecting their health.

"I don't think it's a diet company like Weight Watchers, that's not their place."

Dr. Tom Warshawski, chair of the B.C.-based Childhood Obesity Foundation, said he had mixed feelings when he heard about the Weight Watchers offer.

"Well, my first thought was that it could be a benefit or it could potentially cause harm. You really have to know what the curriculum is like," he said.

Warshawski acknowledged dieting can lead to eating disorders, but he said "the magnitude of the problem doesn't quite compare to the epidemic of overweight and obesity."

The Kelowna pediatrician said when he treats young patients for obesity he considers a variety of risk factors such as body mass index, family history, ethnicity and their stage of adolescence.

The goal, he said, is a healthy rate of weight gain.

"As you grow taller you've got to put on some more muscle mass. You have to get heavier," he said. "So weight loss is sometimes not even what we're looking for in teens. We're looking for weight maintenance and have the body grow into the weight."

Since former TV talk show host Oprah Winfrey became a major shareholder of Weight Watchers in 2015, the company has boosted revenues and memberships, while trying to rebrand itself as a partner in promoting healthy lifestyles.

The company recently recruited American music producer DJ Khaled as a brand ambassador.

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  #309   ^
Old Sat, Mar-03-18, 07:48
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
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The bottom line for Weight Watchers is their bottom line. They will market themselves in almost any way so that they can continue making a profit. Losing weight isn't making a profit then we'll change it to wellness. Marketing to adults isn't making a profit then we'll market ourselves to teen agers. Of course it will always be dressed up as something good for people but really what matters is whether it is good for weight watcher's shareholders.

Jean
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  #310   ^
Old Sat, Mar-03-18, 12:42
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deirdra deirdra is offline
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WW might as well start selling participation trophies to make money.
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  #311   ^
Old Sun, Mar-04-18, 10:18
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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WW is an insidious organization that simply and only sells people the perception that they are eating and getting healthy. Unfortunately, people are only too willing to pay for a perception.
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  #312   ^
Old Sun, Mar-04-18, 11:02
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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There are many people who know absolutely nothing about food so any type of education in that area is probably better than nothing.
Even though a lot of it is misguided it does help people focus on what they're eating as well as portion sizes.
Although I did find 30g of fiber to be absolutely insane in that we are not cows.
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  #313   ^
Old Mon, Mar-05-18, 07:40
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
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Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
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Quote:
Weight Watchers is facing a mounting backlash for opening its doors to teenagers.

In February, the world's oldest and largest weight-loss company announced it will offer children ages 13 to 17 free summer memberships as part of its strategy to more than double revenue and memberships by the end of 2020.

"They will have free access to Weight Watchers when they join with an adult, helping them develop healthy habits at a critical life stage," new CEO Mindy Grossman said during an employee event in New York on Feb. 7.

~snip~

Both the National Eating Disorder Information Centre of Canada (NEDIC) and the National Eating Disorders Association in the U.S. have condemned the offer.

NEDIC spokesperson Kelsey Johnston said dieting is a significant risk factor in young people for developing eating disorders. The organization said approximately one in five Canadian teenagers is already dieting.

​"[Weight Watchers] stated that it is not a diet program, but with a name like Weight Watchers ... we think that preoccupation with body image is problematic for young people," she said.

The social media campaign #WakeUpWeightWatchers and a petition on Change.org call on the company to rescind its offer to teens.

In response to the pressure, Weight Watchers offered assurances that its teen weight-loss program will be responsible.

~snip~

Toronto university student Katelynne Edmonds, who is recovering from an eating disorder that began in her teens, agrees that minors joining Weight Watchers is not a good idea.

"Introducing young teens to a diet culture is such a slippery slope."




I don't know if they're planning to give 13-17 year olds a daily points allowance, but that's what they do for all the adults, so why wouldn't they do the same for underage members? And even if they don't give them a point allowance, since they need to join with an adult, I'm sure that even if the company itself doesn't give them a point allowance, the adult member with whom they join WW will gladly figure out their point allowance for them.

Granted, with the extensive free list they now have, they could still put together a very decent eating plan - eggs, chicken, seafood, lots of veggies, some fruit, and use all their points for added fats, so that total calorie intake is only limited by how many foods from the free list they want to eat on any given day.

But how many teenagers are going to do that? I'm thinking none of them would want to eat mostly from the free list. (just like most adults are not going to want to eat primarily from the free food list - if they liked that WOE to begin with, they wouldn't have needed to join WW to learn about it) I'm thinking the teens would see oprah eating tacos in the WW ads, decide that's the way to do it because of the freedom to eat that way, so they'd skimp on the real food, and decide to use all their points for tacos, pizza, chips, and donuts.
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  #314   ^
Old Mon, Mar-05-18, 08:14
bluej bluej is offline
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Plan: LCHF / IF
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I'm so glad there's no trace of Oprah in my country. WW ads included
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  #315   ^
Old Mon, Mar-05-18, 08:20
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
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Plan: LC--Atkins
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I'm so glad there's no trace of Oprah in my country. WW ads included
Wow. Which country IS that--a moon of Jupiter??
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