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  #16   ^
Old Fri, Jan-12-24, 09:35
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Hmmmmm. I know I have some of those Ketostix around here somewhere. Maybe I should check up on myself?

Yeah, Keto was a pretty good ride for me for a while. Or a kick in the pants. Anything that refocuses my attention on mindful eating (and no cheating) is good. For a while.

The minute some corporate entity starts selling KETO "food" it's probably time to reconsider.

As most veterans here might affirm, N=1 is the essential study.
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  #17   ^
Old Fri, Jan-12-24, 16:28
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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I used one to get DH into it. But I can tell when I'm there, and when I'm not, by now.
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  #18   ^
Old Sat, Jan-13-24, 09:58
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
As most veterans here might affirm, N=1 is the essential study.

So true. I like to be in fat-burning mode on a regular basis, but keto has become such a lightning rod, that I'm reluctant to use the term at times. For those who are very low carb, it's possible to produce endogenous ketones (very healthy) without consuming the amount of fat typically found in a traditional ketogenic approach. To me, being able to adapt between the energy sources enables flexibility. If I have to delay a meal, my body can readily use its fat stores until I can eat. This is a healthy freedom to develop, and it takes a bit of time to condition oneself to being able to easily switch between both forms of energy.
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Jan-22-24, 19:09
Gypsybyrd's Avatar
Gypsybyrd Gypsybyrd is offline
Posts: 7,035
 
Plan: Keto IMO Atkins 72 Induct
Stats: 283/229/180 Female 5'3"
BF:mini goal 250, 225
Progress: 52%
Location: St. Pete, Florida
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I view "keto" as Atkins Induction. And that level of carbs, or lower, works best for me. I agree that "keto" and "Atkins" have negative connotations. I think I like Dr. Ken Berry's "Proper Human Diet" that encompasses, lion carnivore, ketovore, keto, and low carb levels of nutrition. That said, I recognize that Dr. Berry is or can be a polarizing personality. He and his wife thought are huge proponents of N=1.
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  #20   ^
Old Tue, Jan-23-24, 04:39
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Welcome back, Gypsybyrd! Keto gained negative connotations because adding fat rarely works to lose weight, and that's what 99% of its followers wanted. It's good as a therapeutic diet, but a fatty rib eye may be problematic unless you lower energy…. somehow. Dr Naiman recently wrote:
"Sure, ignore calories—they are an arbitrary human-made construct. But then I suggest you write your own diet book entitled ’Satiety Per Ingested Carbon Atom’. Because those suckers are only leaving your body when you oxidize them in your mitochondria and exhale them as CO2. 😁"

It was the one year anniversary of Big Fat Keto Lies on Kindle and it’s Amazon ranking is still around #37 for both a weight maintenance and weight loss diet, even though there is no "diet" in the book. "Keto" is only mentioned in four other best selling titles. Like Google trends, Amazon kindle books are an interesting chart of diet fads. As Carnivore doctors now eat fruit and honey I predict that will be the next fad to go. I certainly would have been better off sticking with Atkins at a high enough Carb level to include enough nutrients from vegetables and fruit.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Jan-23-24 at 06:08.
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  #21   ^
Old Tue, Jan-23-24, 08:16
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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After all these years, I tend to forget that "Keto" means "high fat" along with very low carb. Nope. That's not going to work for me, for any number of reasons. But it was fun while it lasted. I'll change my Plan in UserCP.

I haven't followed the fads for quite awhile. What it comes down to for me is kicking the bad habits that accumulate gradually, and going back to basics: No sugar. No starch. No alcohol. Good fats (in moderation). Green veggies (plenty). Fiber (using avocado for now in place of the flaxseed I've enjoyed for many years.) Quality protein.

For the time being, I'm trying out 16:8 fast. It's convenient. But for how long before I get tired of it?

I know it's extremely unrealistic to expect more than 1/2 to 1 lb of actual fat loss per week. But hope springs eternal, right? Patience is the final ingredient in a successful weight loss strategy.

Another ingredient? Good conversation with supportive friends.

Last edited by bkloots : Tue, Jan-23-24 at 08:22.
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  #22   ^
Old Tue, Jan-23-24, 08:36
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,608
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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I think of keto as simply being in ketosis, and I find I can vary my carb levels while still staying there in that state, burning fat for fuel. It's so good for my brain.

The power I feel with my decaf coffee with heavy cream and coconut oil is about running on fat. I keep my carb intake late in the day if I'm going to have some. And I get up fearsome early, so really don't get hungry until 7 AM or so. If anything, my version of bulletproof coffee wakes up only my brain, not my appetite.

But, obeying my melatonin this way gets me 9-10 hours of sleep. Fortunately, I'm in a position that I can change my schedule. Healing up IS my job now.

But like so much else, keto is a good idea which fake foods and marketing ran into the ground. It does work! If we think of the science. Every system I try improves matters at this point, because I've come so far. It's maybe "luck" that classic keto works so well for me, but I'm still adjusting everything I come across.

It's also that the ketones in my brain makes my whole body run better. Care of my digestive system soothes this "second brain," and a big player in the immune system.

Now, I look for bio-available sources I know will work for me. Haven't found a nutrient yet that I can't track down in sufficient quantity. And still enjoy my food.

For instance, when I run out of the coconut wraps I use sushi wraps made of seaweed. They are great for salmon salad wraps, too. This is lots of micronutrient and a natural source of iodine. I sometimes feel like an Asian-Midwest fusion
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  #23   ^
Old Tue, Jan-23-24, 17:08
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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For me the diet is simple, but restrictive.

Fewer than 20 net carbs per day, and twice as much fat as protein. I've kept that 65 pounds off, and my circulatory system is that of a healthy person 25 years younger than myself (says a heart doc).

I'm glad they make keto foods, but I always read the labels. Some people just use it as a buzz word.
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  #24   ^
Old Tue, Feb-06-24, 17:12
Gypsybyrd's Avatar
Gypsybyrd Gypsybyrd is offline
Posts: 7,035
 
Plan: Keto IMO Atkins 72 Induct
Stats: 283/229/180 Female 5'3"
BF:mini goal 250, 225
Progress: 52%
Location: St. Pete, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I think of keto as simply being in ketosis, and I find I can vary my carb levels while still staying there in that state, burning fat for fuel. It's so good for my brain.

The power I feel with my decaf coffee with heavy cream and coconut oil is about running on fat. I keep my carb intake late in the day if I'm going to have some. And I get up fearsome early, so really don't get hungry until 7 AM or so. If anything, my version of bulletproof coffee wakes up only my brain, not my appetite.



But like so much else, keto is a good idea which fake foods and marketing ran into the ground. It does work! If we think of the science. Every system I try improves matters at this point, because I've come so far. It's maybe "luck" that classic keto works so well for me, but I'm still adjusting everything I come across.

It's also that the ketones in my brain makes my whole body run better. Care of my digestive system soothes this "second brain," and a big player in the immune system.



I think of keto the same way you do.

For me, adding fat does work for me to lose weight. For me, I’m not going for any particular percentage of fat. I’m going for about 150 g of protein, up to 20 g of carbs, and filling the rest in with fat to get me over 2000 cal for the day. But mostly I eat until I’m full. And I eat when I’m hungry. At least this is what I do when I actually stick to my plan. My problem is that I will emotionally eat sugar and that derails me. And I end up decreasing the fat, decreasing protein, and increasing carbs. Which is a recipe for disaster.
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  #25   ^
Old Tue, Feb-06-24, 17:53
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I think of keto as simply being in ketosis, and I find I can vary my carb levels while still staying there in that state, burning fat for fuel. It's so good for my brain.

The power I feel with my decaf coffee with heavy cream and coconut oil is about running on fat. I keep my carb intake late in the day if I'm going to have some. And I get up fearsome early, so really don't get hungry until 7 AM or so. If anything, my version of bulletproof coffee wakes up only my brain, not my appetite.


But like so much else, keto is a good idea which fake foods and marketing ran into the ground. It does work! If we think of the science. Every system I try improves matters at this point, because I've come so far. It's maybe "luck" that classic keto works so well for me, but I'm still adjusting everything I come across.

It's also that the ketones in my brain makes my whole body run better. Care of my digestive system soothes this "second brain," and a big player in the immune system.

For instance, when I run out of the coconut wraps I use sushi wraps made of seaweed. They are great for salmon salad wraps, too. This is lots of micronutrient and a natural source of iodine. I sometimes feel like an Asian-Midwest fusion

I wholeheartedly agree with you, WB. We adapt intelligently, so when I hear people marketing their ways-of-eating methods by claiming "keto lies," I'm disappointed, as I, too, have made it work. I am like many others who regularly benefit from producing endogenous ketones. I have reduced the fat component of my WOE to ensure I"m emphasizing protein and not fat energy, and guess what? Emphasizing protein and managing fat doesn't limit my ketone production because I do limit my carbs. As a low (not no) carber, if you consistently restrict your carbs, you experience no dynamic like the feared "kicking you out of ketosis" due to gluconeogenesis. Like you, Bob, and many, many others, I've found a way to be a healthy fat burner without over-consuming fat. I confirmed this a few years ago by verifying with a blood ketone meter. Despite all this, I still enjoy a cup of coffee with HWC every morning.

On a related note, I just listened to the following STEM Talk Podcast the other day with Mark Mattson. He starts by discussing Glutamate (topic of his new book), but his long discussion has many pearls of wisdom including the advantages bestowed on our brains from ketones, and how as we age, our metabolisms may lose efficiency at converting glucose to ATP, but not ketones, especially in the brain. Good stuff, hope you and others enjoy:

https://www.ihmc.us/stemtalk/episode-163/
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