For many years now, I have been in the habit of getting my daily routine done, dinner, dishes, laundry, kids to bed (they are grown now)... Around 9pm each night I always had and still do, 2 or 3 glasses of dry red wine... I looked forward to this each evening, because it would totally relax me and help me unwind, and give me a little buzz, but most of all it would help me get my overactive worried mind and butt into bed, (made me sleepy)
Over the years I have continued this way of life. I still drink 2 or 3 glasses a night. I want to do the lo- carb diet, but the only reason I fail is because of the cravings for my habit. It is very difficult to give up this thing that I enjoy so much, I am now going through peri-menopause and have gained a lot of weight in the last few years, taking it off now is more difficult than ever!
I wish I could get past the desire and habit of having the wine! Any one have any inspiration? My resolve to just stop is strong all day, but as evening approaches I begin to look forward to the feeling of sitting down with a book and my wine, and relaxing after a long day of work. I really like it! Help!!

Yes, your mind and body start getting into a habit. And the habit becomes an addiction.

I had the same habit, and when I quit, my carb addiction kicked in big time. Here I am today. Recovery is something I explore and grow into on a daily basis. I really liked wine but it was slowly killing me. I really like carbs, but they were killing me too.

I will be bold and suggest that a bit of time for you, and only you in the form of excercise, relaxation techniques and some addiction counseling or self help group such as AA would do wonders. Your peace of mind and health is worth it.

Karen

I can only agree with Karen. And here's why. I have the same problem, although for me it's worse, because my children are grown up and I start my nightly 'ritual' with a couple of drinks while I'm making supper. THEN I move on to the wine.

I've been wrestling with it for years. Alcohol was part of the family culture I grew up in, although it never seemed to be a problem. And so far it hasn't been for me. I work out, walk my dog and work full time. Giving up something that, on the face fo it, doesn't seem to be doing any harm -- in fact seems to be a GOOD thing -- is very difficult. But I feel as if something's wrong, so that's probably a good indicator that something is.

I can recommend a very good book called "The Thinking Person's Guide to Sobriety" by Bert Pluyman (I'm not sure about the spelling of his last name). It's funny and written with a great deal of grace and intelligence. I know you're thinking: "I'm not an alcoholic! What's she on about??" I don't consider myself an alcoholic either, but I sure don't seem to be able to give up my 'habit'.

See if you can find that book. And don't be afraid to consider the possibility that you might be hooked on the stuff. Alcohol crosses all lines.

I'm currently attending an all-ladies AA group. I feel VERY out of place, but they're all kind and funny and not pushy at all. I haven't stopped drinking yet and I'm not sure how or if I will, but I figure I owe it to myself at least to understand what I'm dealing with and to make an intelligent choice.

Oh, and I've lost 12 pounds since January, so while it might slow the loss down, it doesn't seem to have stopped it -- at least for me.

e-mail me if you want to talk.

Take care,

Joanna

that alcohol is really insidious. Ii directly affects the brain, so when you find yourself beginning to look forward to your nightly wine, it is, in all probability, the first stage of withdrawal. I don't know how many times I've said to myself in the morning that I would only have one glass of wine with dinner, or I wouldn't have anything at all, and then when suppertime came around found myself with a drink in my hand, all the time telling myself it was all right.

I don't get drunk. I've never missed an hour of work because of a hangover. I've never been stopped by the cops or had (horrors) a 'pick-me-up' in the morning. I, like you, like the way it helps me to drop off to sleep quickly. Getting to sleep has been something of an issue with me since childhood. But ten years ago I was routinely having two drinks a night; now I have four or five (or sometimes six). What does that tell me?

It really bears thinking about.

Bye again,

Joanna

Hello Joanna, I really appreciate your input, and you wrote the things I think! I agree with what you have to say.
It is very difficult to go without having my usual glass of wine each night. I always tell myself during the day, that this is gonna be the night I just go without...... Sure! By 9pm I am beginning to argue with myself on why do I feel I can't get thru the night without it. I see you have trouble with sleep, as I do!
Wine definitely helps me with that. I grew up in a home where my stepfather was abusive to my mother...It always happened at night, and I was always the one who felt I had to rescue her and make it stop.... I was actually afraid to fall asleep for fear he would hurt her before I could get there to interrupt. I know it is years later and I have been in counseling because of it.... I also suffered for years from anxiety and panic attacks. They are much better due to counseling ( I don't know if I spelled that right) My stepfather was an alcoholic, and an abuser.
I am also a very sensitive person, I guess that is why I was so affected by what went on.
I never drank untill I was about 28 years old, I was in a band in NY and we would all have a few drinks to unwind after a long night., I have been drinking the same amount since then, some times a little more sometimes a little less, 2 to 3 glasses of red wine a night.
I am sure I have a problem because I don't want to give it up.
I am working on it though... For the last few nights, I hold off having my glass of wine untill around 10:30pm, I usually go to bed around 11:30 so it doesnt give me much time to drink more than 1 1/2 glasses... before I get real sleepy. So I'm going to keep at it, hopefully in time I won't need any wine to get sleepy, I'll just go to bed. I hope!
You sound like me when you write and I enjoy being in touch with someone who probably understands just how I am feeling. I hope to hear from you again, and Iwant youto know I appreciate your kind interest.... Thanks, Susann

You sound like you had a difficult childhood. I was lucky -- I didn't, but I guess we all have our hang-ups left over from earlier times.

I noticed in your note to Karen that you used the phrase "won't feel as if I'm missing something" and I thought that was really interesting, because I've felt that I've been missing something all my life, and last week at the AA meeting the women there talked about it as if that feeling were common to all of them. (Wow! that was a bit of a rambling sentence!!) For me, it's as if there's a piece missing, and I'm constantly aware of needing to find it. The lack of it doesn't cripple me or anything, but I wonder sometimes if I'm ever going to be truly happy without finding it.

Do you feel like this?

If I were you, I'd take it very slowly. What you're dealing with here is pretty complicated, and it needs to be handled carefully. I'd see if there's a women's AA you could try. I'm not a rabid feminist, but women hve different issues than men, and I know that you will get a different level of support from them than you will from a mixed group. The hardest thing for me about going to an AA meeting was admitting the possibility that I really might have a problem -- and I'm still wrestling with that. But it really is just another type of therapy -- a chance to get to know yourself better.

You could try it, and if you really HATE it you could not go back. No harm in that, right?

As for me, I'm making bargains with myself now. I've decided to cut out my pre-supper drinks and just have wine with my meal. I'm really going to try, because I guess I don't want to give up alcohol yet. But I may have to face the fact that I can't control it anymore, and if that's the case I will stop, because the alternative is too miserable to contemplate. What a waste of time.

I'll stop rambling now. I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

Take care,

Joanna

P.S. I'm not a religious person (becoming more spritual though), but I thought you'd like this quote from Isaiah:

"The Lord will guide you continually, and you shall be as a watered garden"

I just wanted to chime in and say that there is no shame in being an addict and that's why 12-Step groups can be such a positive experience. Everyone is in the same boat and there isn't- or shouldn't be - any judgment upon you. What is a shame though is hitting low points all alone.

It is a means of personal growth, and everyone works at their own growth, at their own pace. One of the familiar phrases in 12-Step groups is - take what you need and leave the rest and it works if you work it!

Karen

Susann,
I used to have a very dificult time falling asleep. Many, many nights for a period of about five years I only slept 3, 4, or on a good night maybe 5 hours. I have a wonderful library full of books that I read from that time in my life. I read many classics, hence the name Fifth Musketeer, the book The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas was one of my favorites and I read it several times. But, I am getting off the track.
I have read the discussion so far and I realize that you have other contributing factors to your sleep problems. From a physical standpoint I would like to tell you what worked for me.
Right about when I started Atkins for the first time several things fell into place. Giving up sugar and ALL caffiene as recommended in the Atkins book helped a lot, then I remembered, from one of my sleepless nights, I had read about something called MELATONIN. This is naturally produced in our bodies, but some people don't produce enough. The effects of MELATONIN on our body is to help us fall asleep. It is available as a supplement in vitamin stores and I have even seen it in the local drug store.
I believe for me the effects of these three factors, cutting out sugar, giving up ALL caffeine and the supplement MELATONIN allowed me to develope a regular sleep pattern of 7 hours a night.
MELATONIN does not work like a sleeping pill, it does not knock you out, it does not put you to sleep. It helps bring on a slight drowsy feeling but nothing overpowering, just enough so that I feel if I get into bed I will fall asleep instead of tossing and turning. MELATONIN is not addictive. I use it only occasionally now, once every couple weeks. Maybe this is something that could work for you, or at least something you may want to keep in mind for a later time.
In any event I wish you the best of luck!!

Thank all of you for sharing about this issue. I am completely surprized that so many of you have done the same thing I did. I quit smoking several years ago, was low carbing too. I really REALLY missed the way it calmed me down. I started having 2 really TALL mixed drinks, rum and diet coke, in the evening after chores done and baby to bed. I'd get on the computer and unwind. I looked SO forward to that that I often just skipped dinner. I started realizing it was a problem when 1. my doctor prescribed an anti-biotic that you couldnt drink with and I paniced (but didn't drink), 2. when I told myself "oh I'll just get a bubble bath tonight instead of drinking and I drank anyway.
My father was alcoholic and got sober in AA when I was 12. I know the signs and symptoms and I think I was heading in that direction. So I woke up the morning after the bubble bath didnt happen and told my husband I was drinking to much and wanted him to know I was throwing out the bottle. This was I was accountable. So far it's worked pretty well. I've not done as well on my diet though. If we're out somewhere I'll occasionally drink and this has worked ok. We'll see how it goes... Thanks again for having the courage to bring up this topic.. Lisa

Hi, Please pardon me for jumping in. I just finished reading this post and it hit so close to home that I couldn't stay quiet.

One of the biggest obstacles I had when starting Atkins was giving up the alcohol. I did cut waaaaaaaay back on beer (too high in carbs and don't care much for Miller Lite) but just consumed more wine. I even went out and bought a bottle of rum (which I use to drink once in a great while) and started drinking rum and cokes more often, guilt free? I guess I don't like how hard alcohol makes me feel, not the same as red wine! So, I've cut back to the "once in a great while" for that.

So, the hard stuff is basically out-don't like how it makes me feel.
Gave up the beer-too many carbs-can down a Miller lite once in awhile. But,....The Red Wine...............

I found for myself that I simply cannot have red wine in the house (DH doesn't like it anyway). If it is here, I drink it. I would buy one of the large bottles of Merlot from COSTCO and drink half the bottle in one evening, and finish it the next night. I am a Christian, so I struggle with issues of obedience here as well (not necessarily abstaining, but not getting drunk). I've often wondered if I am an alcoholic, because I don't like the idea of never enjoying another ice cold beer on a hot summer day, or a warm glass of red on a cold winter's night. The only real problem alcohol has caused in my life is being overweight and out of shape. I often relate my desire to not stop drinking, to the same desire to not stop overeating. For me, it seems to be a similar mindset. Since starting LC, I have felt so much better mentally! My desire to overeat is gone! My desire to consume alcohol has not dissappeared, but it has diminished some. I am hoping that as I continue this WOE, that my desire for alcohol consumption will settle into a "normalacy". When my DR. asks about how much alcohol do I drink, I would like to respond, "occaisionally"
Besides, I want to lose weight, and I have found myself at a stall for some time. Even figuring in the calories/carbs, I was staying under 20-30 and 2200 cal. no harm, right? Well, I guess not, because the weight would not go!

Though I haven't suffered insomnia since college, (stress) one thing I definately have noticed, when I DON"T drink, I sleep better! I sleep harder, and wake up more refreshed!

A few motivators that have worked for me:
-Practicing what I preach, especially for the sake of my children (I believe a big factor in my own drinking was/is my parents habits of overindulgence)
-Break this _____ stall!
-A commitment to rise early for intense physical training, which, BTW, helps in the ability to fall asleep naturally.

Thanks for the opportunity to share. It is always so good to know you're not the only one struggling.

I think what you said is really interesting. Since I've been lo-carbing I've noticed a real similarity in the way I approach alcohol and the way I used to approach carbs. I would eat too much at a time; I would eat until I was almost disgusted with myself. I'm not a binge drinker, but I will admit that sometimes I find I've drunk far more than I want to without thinking about it too much. My carb 'addiction' leaned toward things like potato chips and cheezies, and I could make a good dent in a large bag of Ruffles!

So I'm trying to approach the alcohol thing now in those terms. I know it alters your brain chemistry -- that's why that first drink is soooo good, but I wonder whether that can be controlled. If I make a concentrated effort, with the knowledge of how I relate and react to certain foods, can I control my alcohol intake in the same way that I've learned to control my carb intake?

Sure would like to.

All the best,

Joanna

I'll add a bit of my own history in here because I think it's relevant...

I used to be a heavy drinker. It was nothing to finish a bottle of red wine in an evening. I never wondered if I was an alcoholic because I only drank at night and had no problems - ha! - with my day to day life because of it.

Well, one day, I miraculously lost my taste for drinking. It just didn't fill the need anymore and it I was also starting to fear for my health. What I didn't notice was that lots of sugar was creeping back into my way of eating along with all the other carbs I was eating. I thought for sure weight loss with follow with the lack of drinking. With what I know now, it's a complete joke!

My drinking career was short. It only lasted for about 10 years. My sugar career has been with me for most of my life.

When I started LC, I thought I had found the miracle cure, and in a way I had. LC taught me that I was indeed an addict and I never would have found out otherwise. Maybe I would have found out, as I eventually kept growing desperately larger and larger with no end in sight.

LC is a perfect way of eating for me. It's given me great energy, stability, calmness, fat loss and very good health. And, it was extremely hard at first. Now, it's second nature to eat this way.

I focus more on recovery than fat loss now. I know what my triggers are and the whys, wheres and hows, but it didn't make a whit of difference until I started working on the spiritual aspect of recovery. I didn't want to white knuckle it. What I wanted was to be at peace.

Karen

Karen, thanks for sharing,

I agree wholeheartedly about the "white knuckle ride". I don't want to feel "deprived". Quite frankly, I don't tolerate that "feeling" too well at all. So I have to approach the situation from a different perspective.

- I DO like to feel good when I wake up, mentally and phsically. (drinking too much would leave more of a guilt trip than a hangover).

-I DO like having energy and motivation to exercise regularly.

-I DO like knowing I am being obedient to my creator. (again, not abstinence, just not abuse)

-I Do like making a positve influence on my children and the decisions they will have to make for themselves.

-I DO like losing weight. (That's what started all this )

I am sure there are a few more "I DO's" (I think I will post them in my journal as I think of them. ) This brings me to the thought that for the first time in longer than I can remember, I feel like I am breaking out of the visious (sp?) cycle of: - feeling bad-do something to feel better-overeat/overconsume (alcohol) (One of the great lies I allowed into my life )-feel better for awhile-feel bad again. The beginning of the "break" was getting off the sugar! Why don't Dr.s suggest that when treating mild depression? It has made a world of difference for me!

that despite my last post I really do think that when it comes to alcohol, we're dealing with a very difficult addiction. It probably IS connected with carb sensitivity, and as Kathleen Desmaisons says in 'Potatoes not Prozac', most alchoholics are sugar sensitive. (Probably why you started eating more sugar, Karen when you gave up your wine.)

But, once I got started low carbing, I really didn't crave carbs, but if I try to stop drinking (I know, I stopped for three months last year), I REALLY miss the drinks. I don't shake or anything, but I do have to make a conscious effort every time to not have one.

It reminds me more of smoking than anything else. But it's even more difficult in some ways because it's so much more socially acceptable.

Interesting you should talk about the spiritual side of things Karen. I think that's where my help will come from.

It's probably more about finding out who you are and where you fit in the universe than anything else.

Take care all,

Joanna

When I first decided to write about my problem I wasn't sure I really wanted to post it, I was a little embarassed. I am now so glad I did. Lately I have been taking myself apart mentally because I can't seem to just cast aside the one thing that makes me fat.....drinking wine.... I am really not a big eater, and definitely have never had an urge for sweets. But I am the carb addict who loves pasta, rice, bread, potatoes. We were raised on these types of foods, they were inexpensive. There were 5 kids in my family when I was growing up. And my parents didn't have a lot of money. So I know how I got started with my carb problem.
When I was pregnant with my first two children I was a gestational diabetic....so with my third pregnancy my doctor got smart and put me on my first lo carb... high protein diet. What a difference for me and the baby!
Now I am pre menopause, and losing weight is the battle of all battles.... Trying to not drink any wine has become another battle. Good Grief seems like a person can't have any fun!
It's not like the wine brings me down, or makes me misbehave, or makes me mean or a bad person..... darn it....it just makes me feel relaxed and a little mellow. So what is wrong with that?
I know ...I know... I'm just letting you all in on the arguments that go on in my head about my problem.
But I will continue on with my battle, and be thankful that I found this site, because at least I am now able to be in touch and openly discuss this issue with people who know about it because they are there, or have been there.
I am truly Thankful and Grateful for you all Osuzana