I was kind of curious - do those of you who eat mostly meat or a very low-carb diet think that the people who eat vegetables are eating a poor diet?

I know how easy it is to get into the "Oh, I wouldn't eat that" kind of thinking and so on -and I'm certainly guilty of this kind of thing myself - but do you really see vegetables as a 'bad thing'? I mean, in the same way that I am thinking of artificial sweeteners as being a poor choice and that one shouldn't eat soy and so on?

I'm wondering what you think when you see someone *purposely* trying to increase their vegetable intake - if you see this as 'bad food' ?

Speaking personally, I don't see the all meat or very low-carb eating plan as a bad choice, just that it's not my choice. I don't think it's unhealthy and I think it works quite well for a lot of people.

At the same time though, I'm kind of curious if those of you who are mostly meat eaters feel the same way about people who eat meat/eggs/fish/vegetables? Or, do you actually think anything other than meat is a bad idea?

The way you feel about meat-only or vlc, is how I feel about veggies. I don't see veggies as "bad" or "unhealthy" but it's not my choice of plan. Although I don't go out of my way to avoid veggies, I just don't care to eat them every day and they don't do much for me.

This cheered me immensely - I was kind of worried that maybe the people who don't want to or don't like to eat vegetables were looking at those who do eat vegetables as ....well, as if they were eating marshmallow puffs or something.

I don't see it as "bad" food (depending on the vegetable) but I see the act of purposely trying to increase vegetable intake to be kind of silly......

Kind of like tight corsets and powdered wigs? More a preference based on fashion of 'how it's supposed to be' than a nutritional requirement? :-)

To answer this question we need to look at the facts. We cannot live without protein and fat. We will die. We can survive completely without carbohydrate. So, my hypothesis is that if our bodies can survive without carbohydrate, then why would we need veggies or fruits? It would then be purely a choice thing. However, when we look at what fiber does to the intestines, we may reconsider the "benefit" of veggies. Fruits contain sugar, so then again, do we want to take a chance with it? Decisions, decisions.

NO..........

I recently went from VLC ( < 10 carb grams/day) to ZC, but it's not for me to stand in judgment of others. I'm from the Church of what works. Dieting is very hard. If you can find a regimen which CONSISTENTLY works for you, then I'm all for it. Some folks do well with Weight Watcher's. Others with OA. Others with FA. Other with SB.

VLC and ZC has worked for ME because they have markedly diminished my appetite. YMMV.

Good Luck,

I like how you've said this - from the Church of What Works. That's exactly why I follow the plan I do, it seems to work for me. Plus, it's taken me a long time to even get to a plan that consistently works for me. Lots of tweaking, changing and trying out stuff to get here.

And I agree about the marked appetite suppression on ZC or VLC. I tried 'meat and eggs' for a short time, and lost weight quite quickly. It worked very well, and I wasn't hungry or worrying about what to eat.

Later on though (and a lot more weight lost), I somehow came up against some sort of line - it was like I was overeating on the meats/fats. That's just me though - maybe I just eat too much.

Meanwhile, I have a lot of admiration for those who do ZC or VLC and am quite happy to encourage and support these plans. Likewise, I am happy to support those who follow South Beach or DANDR or Paleo or ...well, you get the idea. I can see that each one of these plans works very well. I've seen amazing transformations from all of these different plans.

I guess I was wondering if it's necessary to feel that other plans are 'bad' in order to stick to one's own plan.

As an example - a couple of years ago, I might have thought, "Oh, you shouldn't ever eat beans or peanut butter - those aren't Paleo and they're unhealthy". These days, I'm much more inclined to see that if something's working for someone, then that's just fabulous. I used to think that South Beach wasn't that great a plan, and yet - months/years later - I see lots of people who've succeeded beautifully on it.

When almost ZC or VLC stopped working for me, I thought, 'this is a bad plan'. But, that isn't true - it's still a great choice for lots of people.

In hindsight, I can see my own judgements ...and I guess I was wondering if ZC'ers and VLC'ers see plans different than their own as somehow 'less than'. If eating vegetables is perceived as a real 'no no' or something.

From the looks of the responses so far, it seems that most of you view it as mainly a matter of personal choice.

Yes, I do. At least, I wouldn't eat that diet again. The flip side is that many who eat veggies believe an all meat diet is incomplete. The major difference between my view and theirs is knowledge. I have it, they don't. Arrogant? Maybe. I did read the books though.

I don't think that an all-meat diet is incomplete.

And by books, which ones are you referring to? I've read a lot of books, including Good Calories, Bad Calories - but have not read some of the other more Paleo style books.

i am on meat & egg to break a stall, and its working. I'm so happy to see some gains on the scale! I have been on and off low carbs diets for years, I can honestly say vegetables(approved vegetables) have never stalled me. I have never gained a lb from too much spinach or salad. Its the foods like nuts, cheese, splenda and the " a bite of this potato won't hurt" mentality that slow me down. I chose meat & egg as a stall breaker & I plan on using it everytime I stall bc its like a carb rehab for me, it gets me into deep ketosis, kills the cravings brought on by carb creep & allows me to get past my weight set points. Now that I can't have vegetables for a few days, I really miss them & appreciate the regulating affect they have on my digestion, the phytonutrients & antioxidants. I can't wait to have a nice salad topped w/ steak and a bit of Italian dressing! I have a feeling some of the vegetable naysayers may have been the ones who had to stay at the table 2 hrs past dinner time bc they refused to eat their broccoli. I absolutely detest shrimp, lobster etc. If I found a bandwagon of ppl denouncing those disgusting cockroaches of the sea, I would totally jump on it too.

This is exactly my experience too. I don't find the vegetables causing a stall, and in fact, at this point in the game - they help me. But, I still see going to 'zero' as very useful in the short term for some people, and useful in the long term for others.

I agree with you that it's the "other" stuff that stalls.

In the meantime though, I was just kind of curious if there were some zero carbers or very low carbers who felt that anything less than 'all meat all the time' was somehow inferior or unhealthy. Even if a standard low-carb or moderate carb plan worked really well for someone.

editing to add: this bit in particular made me smile :



Yep - and I've probably done the very same thing with my 'no dairy, no gluten' stuff. I'm trying not to do that quite as much.

isn't it funny how after a few days of meat & egg only, I am craving some sauteed spinach or some raw broccoli so badly. Lol that's way better than craving ice-cream and cheetos.

My experience LCing over the past 2-1/2 or so years--after experimenting with various approaches from Protein Power to Dr. K to almost ZC--is that the fewer carbs of any kind I eat, the better I feel. I did a 2-3 month stretch last year of just meat, dairy & AS, no veggies at all (to the horror of my friends and family), and felt better than I ever had in my adult life.

I would never presume to tell anyone else that their diet is crap (although I might think it ). We all make our own choices. That said, after my own experience, and after reading more extensively about the diets of hunter-gatherers and paleolithic man (not just the Inuit, either), I'm convinced nobody NEEDS any vegetable. Wants, sure. Needs--meh.

And yes, I'm back on the ZC bandwagon. Ironically, the Eadeses' new Middle-Aged Middle book arrived in the mail yesterday, and after anxiously awaiting its arrival for so long, on the day it came, I flipped through it, saw all the shakes and Enova oil stuff, and decided to do ZC instead. Life's funny that way.

Yes, and if I start eating too many vegetables, I crave bacon or roast beef. I get very tired of chicken and vegetables, so like to make sure I have some variety - some chicken, some beef, some bison, some ...gasp...seafood.