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  #121   ^
Old Sat, Jan-28-06, 08:39
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duparc
PD that's an interesting observation of the broilers but, what's more fascinating is that in almost all public institutions where there is a number sleeping in the one space, large hospital wards being the obvious example, there is always a nightlight and the irony is that this is where patients require a sound immune system for recovery purposes. The reason probably revolves around expediency, like what's more important; the nurses being able to see the patients or the patients' recovery? Another consideration could be, does the hospital exist for the benefit of the staff or the patients?
Duparc, IMHO, "the reason probably revolves around" the hospital (being an extension of the modern "health care" system) having no interest in implementing anything as radical as what is suggested in this book. They know the drug companies will keep them fat and happy. They will use this as their one and only modality to treat the symptoms of diseases caused by our modern "civilization". The profits are enormous. Let's not bury our heads any deeper in the sand!
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  #122   ^
Old Tue, Feb-07-06, 11:25
Monique723's Avatar
Monique723 Monique723 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 89
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 158/129/114 Female 60 inches
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kallyn
I had a bit of a heart issue about 2 years ago, and they ran all sorts of tests. At that time, according to the work I got done, my thyroid was well within the normal range.

Also, like I said, I've had this sleep problem since I was a baby. (apparently I always slept through the night and it was really hard to wake me up)

I guess these things don't completely rule out subclinical thyroid problems, but they make me suspect narcolepsy instead.

EDIT: case in point, last night I slept from 11:45PM to 11:30AM, with a brief 30-min period of waking in which I drove my fiance to work. ;(


I don't see how it can be narcolepsy, are you falling asleep during the day while wide awake?

As far as thyroid, the ranges have changed in the last few years. It used to be anything over a TSH of 5 was abnormal. The AACE changed the range to anything over 2 as abnormal.

It is also possible to have a normal TSH and still have hypothyroidism. Its based on your symptoms, not a lab number.
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  #123   ^
Old Tue, Feb-07-06, 13:36
kallyn's Avatar
kallyn kallyn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,998
 
Plan: life without bread
Stats: 150/130/130 Female 5 feet 7 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monique723
I don't see how it can be narcolepsy, are you falling asleep during the day while wide awake?


I've done a lot of reading on narcolepsy. While randomly falling asleep during the day for no reason is the narcolepsy stereotype, it's not a symptom of everyone that has it.

The 4 major symptoms are:
excessive daytime sleepiness
temporary loss of muscle control while fully conscious, called cataplexy
vivid dream-like images when drifting off to sleep or waking up, called hypnagogic hallucination
sleep paralysis, where upon waking all your muscles are paralyzed and you can't move for a brief period of time

There are also other indicators of narcolepsy, such as going into REM sleep 5 minutes after you fall asleep (in normal people it takes 90 minutes to go into REM). This is usually one of the tests they use in sleep centers to diagnose narcolepsy because it's measurable (unlike the arbitrary "I feel tired").

Not every narcoleptic has every symptom, or to the same degree. I have daytime sleepiness (no matter how much sleep I get, if you give me 5 minutes of nothing to do I will fall asleep again...that was fun in college trying to pay attention to lectures ;P), hypnagogic hallucination, and the REM thing (I haven't been tested, but I know that I have dreams during a 15-minute nap). Once I had sleep paralysis, but it hasn't occured again.

I've never had any degree of cataplexy, thank goodness. That's the dangerous one, where if you get excited or mad or something your muscles just all stop working and you collapse; you can die if you're walking down stairs or driving a car.
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  #124   ^
Old Tue, Feb-07-06, 14:27
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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I've had sleep paralysis happen a few times as I was waking up, a couple of times with the most amazing OOB/lucid dream experiences and others just a feeling of deep relaxation in a semi-trance feeling the "buzz". I wish I knew how to induce it.

Wyv
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  #125   ^
Old Tue, Feb-07-06, 15:16
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Wyv, you can do self-hypnosis, which is very easy... that will relax you totally and give you a real good "buzz" to boot!

I think I have had all of these symptoms that kallyn describes (except cataplexy, thank god here to!). But, these were all when I was on the SAD super sugar diet for self-medicating depression, et. al.!

It IS possible that sleep disorders exist, but there are also possible problems created by our "wonderful world of white" (sugar, flour, EVERYTHING!).
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  #126   ^
Old Wed, Feb-15-06, 15:06
TwilightZ's Avatar
TwilightZ TwilightZ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 359
 
Plan: meat and meat by-products
Stats: 270/191/150 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: TwilightZone (Phila, PA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyvrn
I've had sleep paralysis happen a few times as I was waking up, a couple of times with the most amazing OOB/lucid dream experiences and others just a feeling of deep relaxation in a semi-trance feeling the "buzz". I wish I knew how to induce it.

Wyv


Yes, I've had those same experiences. They mostly occur when I'm sleeping later than usual into the morning.
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  #127   ^
Old Wed, Feb-15-06, 15:10
TwilightZ's Avatar
TwilightZ TwilightZ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 359
 
Plan: meat and meat by-products
Stats: 270/191/150 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: TwilightZone (Phila, PA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kallyn
and the REM thing (I haven't been tested, but I know that I have dreams during a 15-minute nap).


I always dream vividly as soon as I nod off during the day, even for 5 minutes. I know I'm not narcoleptic. Is dreaming absolute proof of REM sleep?

Howard
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  #128   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-06, 15:08
Wyvrn's Avatar
Wyvrn Wyvrn is offline
Dog is my copilot
Posts: 1,448
 
Plan: paleo/lowcarb
Stats: 210/162/145 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Olympia, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightZ
Yes, I've had those same experiences. They mostly occur when I'm sleeping later than usual into the morning.
Same here. It's very pleasant. I've heard of people having the same thing happen when falling asleep at night, and sometimes that is terrifying for them. That's never happened to me.

Dean - I've explored a variety of altered states using various means of induction (these days I find Harner method shamanic journeying useful), but sleep paralysis is unlike anything else I've experienced. When I do a journey I am in touch with both my physical and non-ordinary surroundings and can physically enact certain things that are happening in the journey, but my ego presence is minimal. In sleep paralysis there seems to be more ego or at least more rational capacity but the body is very remote. Meditation as I know it is more about completely banishing the ego and "blissing out". Useful in division meetings but not so much otherwise.

Wyv
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  #129   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-06, 15:11
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilightZ
I always dream vividly as soon as I nod off during the day, even for 5 minutes. I know I'm not narcoleptic. Is dreaming absolute proof of REM sleep?

Howard


I don't know. I always get "jumbled" thoughts. I suppose it is a sleep stage where I'm very lightly asleep but still sort of thinking, but the thought get a little twisted and odd. I had a friend once that would announce his odd thoughts as he was falling asleep. It was quite funny.
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  #130   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-06, 15:32
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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If you've dropped the bad brown acid, report immediately to the medical tent, man
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  #131   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-06, 23:00
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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And if you've dropped the good green windowpane, please report to my tent now!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Fri, Feb-17-06 at 23:06.
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  #132   ^
Old Fri, Feb-17-06, 23:13
kallyn's Avatar
kallyn kallyn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,998
 
Plan: life without bread
Stats: 150/130/130 Female 5 feet 7 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Pennsylvania
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I don't think the dreaming all by itself is absolute proof of narcolepsy, but in conjunction with several other symptoms it's a good empirical indicator.
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  #133   ^
Old Sun, Feb-19-06, 09:51
TheCaveman's Avatar
TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I always get "jumbled" thoughts. I suppose it is a sleep stage where I'm very lightly asleep but still sort of thinking, but the thought get a little twisted and odd.


Happens to me all the time. I get to take credit as having the best sleep on the boards, I guess, and no matter how tired I am, it always takes me about a half hour to get to sleep at night. And the thoughts running through my mind right before I doze off are WEIRD. I'd give some examples, but they're the kind of thoughts/dreams that you forget almost immediately afterward. All I remember is that it was weird.

Before I started eating well, I used to sing in my sleep. Not that I was firing off opera classics from under the covers, but I was dreaming that I was singing or something, and would sort of growl/hum in my sleep.

Now, every couple of months I will wake up in the middle of the night laughing, and I mean tears-rolling-down-my-cheeks laughing, and I have NO idea what I'm laughing about.

I think sleep is fantastic for health. This may, however, just be a subconscious rationalization, because truthfully, I seem to have much more fun while I'm alseep than when I'm awake.
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  #134   ^
Old Sun, Feb-19-06, 10:17
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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I love those "laugh-in-your-sleep" dreams.
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  #135   ^
Old Sun, Feb-19-06, 14:27
PaleoDeano's Avatar
PaleoDeano PaleoDeano is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,582
 
Plan: antivegan,was subzerocarb
Stats: 200/187/175 Male 6' 0"
BF:27%/19%/12%
Progress: 52%
Location: Flyover Zone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I love those "laugh-in-your-sleep" dreams.
And what color are you guys dropping?!

Last edited by PaleoDeano : Sun, Feb-19-06 at 14:36.
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