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  #106   ^
Old Sat, Feb-20-21, 05:21
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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On Ted's Twitter, in answer to question about using Whey Protein...

Quote:
Reality check:

1. Find anyone on Instagram with amazing body composition.

2. Cyberstalk their socials to see what they are eating.

3. Note the liberal use of whey protein.

4. Throw this protein→insulin→fat loss prevention nonsense directly in the trash where it belongs.
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  #107   ^
Old Sat, Feb-20-21, 08:22
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Janet, thanks so much for all the info and links. Is it just me, or are others also frustrated with all the conflicting info out there? First they say eat fiber, then they say fiber isn't necessary and is actually harmful, and then the again say to eat fiber. High carbs, low carbs, high protein, low protein, high fat, low fat. There are experts out there who would swear on a stack of bibles that their way is the best and only way to lose weight and get healthy.

To answer your question, I can eat most veggies and nuts, but not in quantity. A couple years ago my then (vegan) doc wanted me to do keto, but a plant-based version of it. I was allowed a maximum of 1.5 oz of animal protein daily. Other than that, I was eating nuts, celery, greens, cauliflower, broccoli, etc. By far, most of the veggies were supposed to be raw, only a small amount of cooked veggies were allowed daily. Somewhere in the second week I started having gastric pain and ended up with diverticulitis that required 10 days of 2 different antibiotics daily.

So yes, I can can foods containing fiber, just not too much, and not raw. Point taken. I will try to add more veggies to my meals, starting slowly and cooking them rather than having them raw.

I do have a question for you (or anyone) regarding whey protein. About 5 years ago I did an elimination diet based on the results of a NutrEval test. Whey (and casein) were high on my list of things NOT to eat. I love whey protein shakes, though, so it was one of the first foods I re-introduced after having eliminated it for 90 days. I had 2 shakes daily (plus a regular meal) for 2 days in a row. By the fourth day I was up almost 5 pounds. I take that to mean that whey is not all that good for me.

So here's my question. I did sign up for the DDR master class and have already started my baselining of blood glucose (this is Day 3). Yesterday morning I had a waking BG of 99. After a mug and a half of black coffee, BG was 102. Then I had a Pure Protein whey shake. An hour later, BG spiked to 123, which has been my highest spike recorded thus far. HOWEVER, after 2 hours, BG was 86, which was my lowest recorded level since starting.

So, do you think it's a good thing for me to have the protein shake, or a bad thing?

I have also had 2% Greek yogurt a couple times (store didn't have the 0% kind). The first time I had just the yogurt and my BG went from 111 before to 98 an hour later (amazing!). The second time I had the yogurt along with a couple scrambled eggs, sausage crumbles, and a bit of sour cream, and BG went from 86 to 91 an hour later.

This is all so confusing. I'm hoping to learn more during the master class about what all this means.
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  #108   ^
Old Sat, Feb-20-21, 09:58
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Your question is mainly about BG, which is not Ted Naiman's thing, but over on the Marty Kendall thread. This was his post about BG that started me on the DDF path. https://optimisingnutrition.com/wan...making-you-fat/.

To me, it looks like you also have the typical BG of long-time very low carb eaters whose BG are almost flatline...those ranges are not much at all. I wonder if the "spike" to 123 has something to do with Pure Protein shakes using Milk protein Concentrates not Whey, but I don't know enough about the differences.

It is also confusing because BG meters have a pretty wide error margin... after you take many readings you get a sense of how off the numbers are, but in this small range be prepared for numbers to bounce around...for no good reason at all

The DDF Book with all the FAQs is helpful..I had to read it a few times.
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  #109   ^
Old Sat, Feb-20-21, 10:53
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Doh! Posted in the wrong place. I was actually surprised that I've "flat-lined" so much. Thanks for the link. I'll read it next.

And I'll try to keep my programs and posts straight from now on!
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  #110   ^
Old Sat, Feb-20-21, 15:42
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25,582
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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Hi BW. I do it quite a bit different from Janet, who seems to be doing it more properly. I just lamented in my journal how I know I'm arguably eating too much dairy and deli meat, but I'm honestly not a big steak or seafood fan. I sort of have to make it overly-palatable to get enough protein.

As for veggies, I don't mind them, but for the most part I'm eating what WereBear calls "condiment levels" of veggies, at least for now. In summer, I'll probably have more. I have the odd side veggie at dinner, mashed rutabaga most recently. I'll have the odd potato because they don't really bother me and I think a bit of a carb hit at dinner helps me avoid that keto insomnia. My local store has a brand of potatoes called "Castaways" that are too small, but that's perfect for me.

Dr Ted is a fan of a more moderate carb level (he has about 100 g/day) but he's not dogmatic about it - you can be a carnivore, vegan or anywhere in between, just prioritize that protein.

My favorite meals of late:
- high-protein chaffle sandwiches, fried egg is my fave
- beef chili mess: deli roast beef + melted cheese + chili as a sauce (this is at work, where the chili is too carby)
- turkey potato soup mess: deli turkey + melted cheese + potato bacon soup likewise as a sauce b/c it's too carby
- meat and cheese roll-ups
- Greek yogurt + berries + added whey protein, if I'm trying to top up
- whatever meat + veggie + 1% cottage cheese for "dessert". I LOVE cottage cheese and could never get sick of it.
- homemade soup/stew

It might be worth noting that I'm not currently aiming to lose weight. I do know I've improved my body composition, though, as I can see the definition in my muscles from strength training, while my scale weight has remained stable. I might change my mind in the spring and tighten the screws on myself. In the meantime, gimme that hot, brown/beige winter comfort food in a bowl.

Last edited by Kristine : Sat, Feb-20-21 at 15:50.
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  #111   ^
Old Sat, Feb-20-21, 16:14
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Kristine, those sound similar to my menus. I love the "mess" description! I'll have a potato now and again, and not many veggies. I guess I'm doing Marty's DDF approach for the fasting part of it, and Ted's P:E approach for when I eat. Today I had some roasted cabbage with lunch, and was surprised at how tasty it was. I'm ending the day with 30 whole carbs (25 net), and that's with having veggies at two meals (dinner will include some spaghetti squash).
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  #112   ^
Old Sat, Feb-27-21, 14:58
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
I know a few years ago when I was doing more of a protein hack that eating protein was like chocolate cake for me - BG skyrocketed! Not sure what the affect would be now as I haven't been pushing the protein.
I tried a higher protein hack 10+ yrs ago and again recently. The first time was after Mike Eades described a study where middle aged women ate 100g protein a day instead of my 81g PP protein level. I did lose weight faster, but the extra pounds lost seemed to be mostly water weight. I drank a ton of water but was constantly thirsty and peeing it out and woke up with dehydration headaches. I also found that if I ate a monstrous lean chicken breast containing 40-50g protein, I'd be hungry again in a couple of hours and it did increase my BG and made me feel weak. Whereas the same calories of chicken thigh and only ~30g protein leave me satiated for 5-6 hrs.

I tried attaining Ted Naiman's recommendations of 130g protein/day and found myself feeling stuffed eating only real food. The only way to not feel stuffed was to get half my protein from protein powder, a processed "food" stripped of its natural fat for twice the price, and it seems like all the extra protein just goes straight through me. So I've gone back to my usual 81-90g/day protein from the real foods that I have been eating for 20 yrs, which happen to have his P:E ratios of 1.0 and higher.

Seeing all the shirtless photos of himself that Ted Naiman's posts on SM, it seems like his protein levels are for body-builders looking to minimize their body fat so all their overdeveloped muscles are visible.

Last edited by deirdra : Sat, Feb-27-21 at 15:12.
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  #113   ^
Old Sat, Feb-27-21, 15:34
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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I do believe there is a lot of variability in how each of us handles protein levels, carb levels, etc. What works for one person does not work for another, not across the board.
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  #114   ^
Old Sat, Feb-27-21, 16:49
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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In the 2010 New Atkins, the amount of Protein was a very wide range, by height, for both men and women. At 5'9”, mine was 80-166 grams! One time I read Dr Steve Phinney said he was 5'9” and darn if I wasn’t eating the same 125 grams protein too...when I took the time to measure (had never tracked macros before that). Dr Phinney's protein number has stuck with me, but now that I am eating more nutrient dense food, I apparently am satisfied with lower protein (admittedly also a decade older and this year ...way less exercise). Who knows? It is so much easier to eat until satisfied. Ps: I am only weighing and measuring for six weeks to do the Nutrition Optimising challenge...(hate it) the numbers are interesting but I will return to Ted Naiman's plan.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Feb-28-21 at 06:02.
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  #115   ^
Old Tue, Mar-09-21, 18:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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From the Diet Doctor himself, Andreas Eenfeldt, hope you can read this screen shot from Twitter. The P:E diet for the win.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1253 copy.jpg (26.7 KB, 38 views)
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  #116   ^
Old Tue, Mar-09-21, 18:15
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Even the Diet Doctor himself admits he has a lot to learn!

OK, so diet and health, like technology. I want it all to just stop so I can catch up!
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  #117   ^
Old Wed, Mar-10-21, 01:55
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25,582
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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I saw that.

Another tweet I was going to screencap and post here (but forgot) was a cool little trick from Dr Ted about reading labels.

1. Look at the protein grams.
2. Multiply by 10. (ie, just add a zero.)
3. You ideally want this to be higher than the calorie count.

Pretty cool. I'm not a perfectionist about it, and I'm still going to eat my share of more fatty/carby foods, but this helps me decide on what's a staple vs occasional food.
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  #118   ^
Old Wed, Mar-10-21, 05:55
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Kristine, that's brilliant! I tried it on a number of foods recorded in my FitDay and it works ... except for steak. I had an 8 oz piece the other night. According to the package, 8 oz was 44 grams of protein, but 540 calories. Still, this is an easy-to-remember rule that would work most of the time for most foods.
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  #119   ^
Old Wed, Mar-10-21, 08:58
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Interesting comment by Andreas, but not surprising. Thanks for the post, Janet. As I've mentioned before, I'm following Naiman's recommendations based on the P:E diet. The first step was to increase protein and decrease fat consumption, so I stopped adding HWC to my morning coffee. I recently increased the vegetables and limited berries I have been consuming; although, this is relative since I was eating a very small amount before. I eat greens in salads, cruciferous vegetables, asparagus, blueberries, raspberries, etc. with at least one of my two meals. No nuts once my dwindling supply runs out.

As one who only consumed full-fat dairy, my eliminations of HWC was coupled with going to 2% Greek yogurt, which I occasionally have with berries. Naiman recommends 0%. Regular exercise. The results? I seem to be slowly building or maintaining lean, muscle mass, weight is slowly dropping, and has been since I increased protein a while back. Substituting protein for fat works. I really like the P:E concept in that limiting the amount of energy in either fat or carbs consumed is really the key that unlocks everything. My satiety is good, and while not a calorie counter, I'm eating less without doing it on purpose, as I simply eat to satiety. This is something everyone following DDF discovers.

Andreas and others through DDF find that this approach works without putting one through the discomfort that a simple calorie reduction diet would. Good stuff.
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  #120   ^
Old Sat, Mar-27-21, 10:07
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

And...now that Andreas figured that out...

Dr. Ted Naiman to help hone higher protein options for better weight loss

https://www.dietdoctor.com/dr-ted-n...ter-weight-loss

Quote:
We have some exciting news: Seattle family doctor and protein expert Dr. Ted Naiman is joining the Diet Doctor team.

Dr. Naiman will be helping us to help you more effectively lose weight, improve your health, and improve your body composition.

He’ll be helping you understand how to potentially leverage higher levels of protein and nutrients in your low-carb diet for better results.

“Ted is a rare kind of doctor,” says Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, founder and CEO of Diet Doctor. “He’s extremely insightful about practical lifestyle interventions for improving health and weight. Ted knows a lot about what works and how to communicate it.”

I’m super happy about working with Ted to make our website and products even more empowering for people, Dr. Eenfeldt says.
“I’m super happy about working with him to make our website and products even more empowering for people,” Dr. Eenfeldt says.
Dr. Naiman is a clinical expert on the relationship between getting enough protein versus getting too much toxic energy from carbs and fat. He calls this relationship the protein-to-energy ratio of foods, or P:E.

“I am very excited to join Diet Doctor’s passionate and dedicated team,” says Dr. Naiman, who is the author of The P:E Diet: Leverage your biology to achieve maximum health. “What I bring is decades of real-world patient experience and a deep experience of nutrition and metabolism.”
continues...
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