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  #46   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 05:23
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
I don't mean to make this sound like the Spanish Inquisition - just trying to figure out the logic behind why some items are on the yes list, and others on the no list, and why other types of food aren't even mentioned.


The diet is designed to be low carb and avoid arachidonic acid. It works great for Bob, so we can assume he is sensitive to that.

I can look at it and know it would not work for me, but then, I'm not sensitive to arachidonic acid. I've got a lectin/nightshade problem when it comes to my joints.

Also, the more sensitive we are, the less of the substance it might take for us to feel it. I used to eat lots of cashews, a legume with lectins, with no apparent problems. Now that I've gotten my body into a healthy state, ONE is enough to make me feel sick. Yet, I can consume coffee and dairy with no apparent bad effects. The lectin load must be smaller, or I have the enzymes to digest them and make them less toxic.

But the only way I know to see if certain foods are trying to kill you are to drop them from your diet and see wait happens. And we need to wait weeks before trying them again. This seems to let the body reset and lose the tolerance that was not causing obvious symptoms, but also damaging us.

My plan, which I did in January of last year, was a 3 day fast followed by beef only for 3 weeks. I felt better right away! And adding foods one at a time and see how I did was a real game-changer.

I never would have figured it all out if I hadn't "gone to extremes." But then, I'm living proof that sometimes you have to.
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  #47   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 07:19
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
The diet is designed to be low carb and avoid arachidonic acid. It works great for Bob, so we can assume he is sensitive to that.

I can look at it and know it would not work for me, but then, I'm not sensitive to arachidonic acid. I've got a lectin/nightshade problem when it comes to my joints.

Also, the more sensitive we are, the less of the substance it might take for us to feel it. I used to eat lots of cashews, a legume with lectins, with no apparent problems. Now that I've gotten my body into a healthy state, ONE is enough to make me feel sick. Yet, I can consume coffee and dairy with no apparent bad effects. The lectin load must be smaller, or I have the enzymes to digest them and make them less toxic.

But the only way I know to see if certain foods are trying to kill you are to drop them from your diet and see wait happens. And we need to wait weeks before trying them again. This seems to let the body reset and lose the tolerance that was not causing obvious symptoms, but also damaging us.

My plan, which I did in January of last year, was a 3 day fast followed by beef only for 3 weeks. I felt better right away! And adding foods one at a time and see how I did was a real game-changer.

I never would have figured it all out if I hadn't "gone to extremes." But then, I'm living proof that sometimes you have to.



I understand what you're saying, since in the case of extreme problems, it's often necessary to go extreme in order to rule out problem foods.


The reason I have all those questions is that I'm only trying to determine any unmentioned intricacies of his diet. At my age, I do deal with stiffness in my joints, especially my knees and hips. If the diet is limited to literally the few foods on the ok list, and I can't eat a bunch of them because they're too carby/my digestive tract isn't happy with them, I can't see me trying it, unless my situation gets a lot worse, and I become desperate. If there are a few unmentioned LC friendly foods that are ok, I'd give it a try for the recommended month to see if it helped.



I really AM curious as to what the cut off is between what's considered lean beef and what's considered fatty beef, as well as if he knows why higher amounts of saturated fats are also a problem.



The reason I don't just go ahead and try it following that short list of foods is that a year or two ago, based on information I had at the time about seed oils and joint inflammation, I tried cutting out absolutely all seed oils for about 4 months. I didn't see any real difference in the joint stiffness - it still came and went with barometric pressure changes/changes in the weather, and the time of year (I live north of the Mason Dixon, so we only get remnants of hurricanes here, but there's still lots of rapid barometric changes, which equals more joint stiffness) When I resumed eating the seed oils, I didn't see an increase in joint stiffness. But I do eat chicken frequently, plus I eat whole eggs, 80%-85% ground beef (which as I mentioned some people would consider to be very high in fat), butter, full fat cheese, cream, plain greek yogurt, pork, occasionally some shellfish (the diet only mentions salmon and fish - shellfish are often considered to be a different category), plus a variety of LC friendly veggies, some berries, unsweetened cocoa powder and sometimes unsweetened baking chocolate, and a few other things that I eat occasionally, most of which are not mentioned in either the yes or no list. If I decide to give it a try at some point, I want to make sure I'm doing it right, while not cutting out whole swathes of foods that would still be perfectly acceptable, but just don't happen to be mentioned in those lists.
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  #48   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 07:48
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Quote:
I really AM curious as to what the cut off is between what's considered lean beef and what's considered fatty beef, as well as if he knows why higher amounts of saturated fats are also a problem.


The difference could be as simple as which causes symptoms. We are individuals, each with unique tolerances.

Dr Atkins addresses these issues in depth in DANDR. HE realy was ahead of his time.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Mon, Aug-31-20 at 08:26.
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  #49   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 18:03
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
...what the cut off is between what's considered lean beef and what's considered fatty beef
^ Does anyone know what the percentage of fat hamburger used to be before the government's low fat dogma took hold? You know, back in the old days...

.
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  #50   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 18:17
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Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Hi Calianna, the doctor has long since retired, so I can't answer any of the questions with authority.

I know that arachidonic acid is very inflammatory, and this is an anti-inflammatory diet. Other than the nightshades, it has nothing to do with food sensitivity and everything to do with inflammation.

There are Arachidonic Acid charts available on the 'net, and they might be helpful for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
I know you've shared this list before on here, and I'm curious about a few things on the list.

Does the diet mention any reason for avoiding saturated fats, such as fatty cuts of beef? The polyunsaturated I can understand - damaged oils, and not a good ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. But the beef I don't get - I would have thought that the vast majority of the problem came from polyunsaturates, instead of natural saturated fats. When it comes to beef, what's considered to be a lean enough cut?


I think even though grass-fed has a better omega 3 to 6 ratio, it still has omega 6 (AA). I have no idea what a lean enough cut is. I eat beef once or twice a week, either a burger or a tenderloin steak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
I think you've mentioned that you use the grass fed ground beef from Aldi, and if I recall correctly (from the last time I happened to see grass fed ground beef at aldi), their grass fed is 85%/15%. Is that considered lean enough? I ask because a lot of people wouldn't consider ground beef to be lean unless it's at least 90%/10%, and would prefer 93%/7% or even 97%/3%, or they'd consider it to be fatty, instead of lean.


I am getting ground beef from Publix now, it's Florida grass-fed and tastes better than Aidi's. It's a bit more expensive, but life is short, I've given up so many foods, I don't mind spending a bit more.

For steaks I get grass-fed and trim the fat off before putting it on the grill.

100% grass-fed doesn't have the fat marbling through it (less fat) and to my taste buds tastes better, a little sweeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
I don't see pork mentioned - is that allowed? As I understand it, pork has a nearly perfect balance of fats: Saturated and monounsaturated are nearly equal, while polyunsaturated is less than 1/3 of each of the other two. Or are you truly limited to beef and fish?


I eat lots of pork, including bacon. I introduced the bacon slowly after I was pain free and it didn't bother me. For pork chops, I trim the fat off before cooking and I eat leaner cuts of ham. Pork cutlets are nice too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
As as LCer, I doubt you're using oatmeal (unless it's in minuscule amounts), due to the carb content, so there's one thing that's allowed that's automatically off the approved list fot a LCer.

I see a trend on that list towards mostly lower carb foods, so have to wonder what makes whole grain breads any better than white bread (aside from the supposedly glowing aura of fiber in the whole grains), because even whole wheat bread is going to be mostly carbs. Years ago, I used to make 100% whole grain rye. There's almost no gluten at all in rye, so it rises very, very little, and the loaf comes out extremely dense... about like a brick. (even thought it was still delicious - just had to slice it extremely thin, so I could chew it) If you want it like bakery rye, it will need approximately half wheat (white) flour, and preferably some high gluten (white) flour, so it can rise better, and give it a more edible, less brick-like texture.


I'm very low carb (less than 20/day). I eat no oatmeal and there are only two "breads" that I eat (1) a millet and flax flatbread and (2) a zero carb almond flour bread I get from netrition. It's a little pricey so I don't eat it often.

Every once in a while my DW makes either faux pancakes or macaroni with almond and/or coconut flour. It reminds me of the 'good old days' when I could eat starchy stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
I have to wonder why peanuts are on the approved list with nuts, since they're actually a legume, rather than a nut. Not that I do well with either peanuts or tree nuts - Peanuts don't seem to like me , and tree nuts are too addictive for me. So another whole section that would be off that short little approved list for me.


Peanuts are not nuts, but neither are almonds, pistachios, pecans, walnuts, cashews, Brazil nuts, or macadamias. Most of these are seeds from drupe fruit or other seeds. Culinary they are all classified as nuts, but botanically the only true nuts people eat are chestnuts, hazelnuts, and acorns.

I'm always amused at the "Peanuts are not a nut" meme, when neither are most of the other ones. Who knows how those memes get started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
Low Glycemic veggies and fruit (aka, pretty much the only ones we eat on LC anyway) - no problem with that.

Not being able to eat any chicken or eggs at all though... that would really, seriously limit my food choices.


I hear you there. Chicken and eggs are the top sources of arachidonic acid in the diet—an omega-6 fatty acid involved in our body's inflammatory response. I looked this up a long time ago, and I think weight for weight chicken and eggs have many times more AA than beef.

After I became pain free, I tried introducing foods one at a time. Both chicken and egg yolks brought the pain back. That makes sense since they have many times the AA that other foods do.

For me that's sad, because I love them both, but I love being pain free even more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
Whey proteins are allowed, I'm assuming in the form of whey protein powders. How about dairy in general? Milk is high in carbs to try to fit into a LC plan, but plain greek yogurt cuts the carb count in half, making it doable. Cheese - very low in carbs, but high in saturated fats.


I don't drink milk. The heavy whipping cream in my coffee is grass-fed organic. I do eat a lot of cheese, but it's either European or Australian because it's A2 which is less inflammatory and the artificial hormones are banned there. When it's available I get 100% grass-fed cheese. KerryGold has some nice ones.

The whey protein I drink comes from grass-fed jersey (A2) cows, but thankfully a USA product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
I don't mean to make this sound like the Spanish Inquisition - just trying to figure out the logic behind why some items are on the yes list, and others on the no list, and why other types of food aren't even mentioned.


I have no idea. I don't think it was meant as an exhaustive list, but a general guideline.

One more thing, before the diet I was taking glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, SAMe, and rubbing emu oil products like Blue Goo on myself. I ditched them all except the glucosamine. The doctor said it helps to keep me supplied with sulfur which the joints need.

You might do what I did, follow it strictly until you become completely pain free (assuming it works for you), then introduce one food at a time and see what the results are.

Bob
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  #51   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 19:20
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Ok , Bob, need that recipe for lc macaroni !!!
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  #52   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 20:06
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
I can't remember how long ago the change occurred after switching to LC, but now I can detect even a tiny bit of sweetness in food, so I'm assuming it was a gradual readjustment of my sense of taste. Now, strawberries are plenty sweet, blueberries and cherries are VERY sweet, cantaloupe and watermelon are so excessively sweet that I can't eat more than a bite of them. Forget food that's had sugar added to it - that's sickeningly sweet.
Last week was my DiL's birthday and we got takeout from The Longhorn Steakhouse. I got the 6-oz sirloin steak with my two sides as a garden salad with blue cheese dressing, and the roasted brussels sprouts. They sounded like decent LC choices, except the brussels sprouts were so SWEET. They tasted like vegetable candy. My 10-year-old grandson had gotten the brussels sprouts too and shoved them aside, saying "these are too sweet. I can't eat them."

Well today I finally looked up their nutrition data online, and it said the brussels sprouts have 27g of carbs, which includes 17g of sugar. Yikes, no wonder they tasted sweet, Why ruin perfectly good veggies like that?

It's like Dunkin Donuts which now offers bacon as a side you can order, which sounds great too, until you find out they coat the bacon strips in brown sugar.
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  #53   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 21:25
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
Hi Calianna, the doctor has long since retired, so I can't answer any of the questions with authority.

I know that arachidonic acid is very inflammatory, and this is an anti-inflammatory diet. Other than the nightshades, it has nothing to do with food sensitivity and everything to do with inflammation.

There are Arachidonic Acid charts available on the 'net, and they might be helpful for you.



I think even though grass-fed has a better omega 3 to 6 ratio, it still has omega 6 (AA). I have no idea what a lean enough cut is. I eat beef once or twice a week, either a burger or a tenderloin steak.



I am getting ground beef from Publix now, it's Florida grass-fed and tastes better than Aidi's. It's a bit more expensive, but life is short, I've given up so many foods, I don't mind spending a bit more.

For steaks I get grass-fed and trim the fat off before putting it on the grill.

100% grass-fed doesn't have the fat marbling through it (less fat) and to my taste buds tastes better, a little sweeter.



I eat lots of pork, including bacon. I introduced the bacon slowly after I was pain free and it didn't bother me. For pork chops, I trim the fat off before cooking and I eat leaner cuts of ham. Pork cutlets are nice too.



I'm very low carb (less than 20/day). I eat no oatmeal and there are only two "breads" that I eat (1) a millet and flax flatbread and (2) a zero carb almond flour bread I get from netrition. It's a little pricey so I don't eat it often.

Every once in a while my DW makes either faux pancakes or macaroni with almond and/or coconut flour. It reminds me of the 'good old days' when I could eat starchy stuff.



Peanuts are not nuts, but neither are almonds, pistachios, pecans, walnuts, cashews, Brazil nuts, or macadamias. Most of these are seeds from drupe fruit or other seeds. Culinary they are all classified as nuts, but botanically the only true nuts people eat are chestnuts, hazelnuts, and acorns.

I'm always amused at the "Peanuts are not a nut" meme, when neither are most of the other ones. Who knows how those memes get started.



I hear you there. Chicken and eggs are the top sources of arachidonic acid in the diet—an omega-6 fatty acid involved in our body's inflammatory response. I looked this up a long time ago, and I think weight for weight chicken and eggs have many times more AA than beef.

After I became pain free, I tried introducing foods one at a time. Both chicken and egg yolks brought the pain back. That makes sense since they have many times the AA that other foods do.

For me that's sad, because I love them both, but I love being pain free even more.



I don't drink milk. The heavy whipping cream in my coffee is grass-fed organic. I do eat a lot of cheese, but it's either European or Australian because it's A2 which is less inflammatory and the artificial hormones are banned there. When it's available I get 100% grass-fed cheese. KerryGold has some nice ones.

The whey protein I drink comes from grass-fed jersey (A2) cows, but thankfully a USA product.



I have no idea. I don't think it was meant as an exhaustive list, but a general guideline.

One more thing, before the diet I was taking glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, SAMe, and rubbing emu oil products like Blue Goo on myself. I ditched them all except the glucosamine. The doctor said it helps to keep me supplied with sulfur which the joints need.

You might do what I did, follow it strictly until you become completely pain free (assuming it works for you), then introduce one food at a time and see what the results are.

Bob



Thanks for all that information, Bob.



I don't feel the need (yet) for any of those supplements, and rarely feel the need for any OTC meds. It was bad a couple of days ago when the remnants of Hurricane Laura was making it's way through the area, so I ended up taking some ibuprofen just a couple of times during those couple of days (much as I hate to take it). Today I've been fine, and probably will continue to be fine until the next hurricane remnants come through.



I will keep that information on hand though, because I somehow doubt the aches and pains are going to magically disappear on their own over the next few years, and if it gets bad enough that I feel the need to take something for it fairly regularly, I'll try that diet before resorting to taking a bunch of meds for it.
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  #54   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 21:41
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
Last week was my DiL's birthday and we got takeout from The Longhorn Steakhouse. I got the 6-oz sirloin steak with my two sides as a garden salad with blue cheese dressing, and the roasted brussels sprouts. They sounded like decent LC choices, except the brussels sprouts were so SWEET. They tasted like vegetable candy. My 10-year-old grandson had gotten the brussels sprouts too and shoved them aside, saying "these are too sweet. I can't eat them."

Well today I finally looked up their nutrition data online, and it said the brussels sprouts have 27g of carbs, which includes 17g of sugar. Yikes, no wonder they tasted sweet, Why ruin perfectly good veggies like that?

It's like Dunkin Donuts which now offers bacon as a side you can order, which sounds great too, until you find out they coat the bacon strips in brown sugar.



This happened at least 10 years ago, but I had a similar experience with a chain steak house. I can't remember which one it was, but it might have been Longhorn too.



At any rate, I'd ordered a steak and broccoli. The broccoli florets tasted like they had been soaked in sugar. Yuck.



Since that happened so long ago, they've probably increased the amount of sugar they add to cruciferous veggies since then. I know a lot of people consider the cruciferous veggies to be too bitter to eat, and for that type of person being able to order "healthy" veggies that taste sweet rather than bitter is probably a big reason they eat there. Not me though - I haven't been back since.



We'd ordered take out from Texas Roadhouse recently, and I ordered the broccoli on the side. I was afraid that it would be sweetened, but luckily it didn't taste noticeably sweet to me - just tasted like it had some butter on it.
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  #55   ^
Old Mon, Aug-31-20, 22:10
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
^ Does anyone know what the percentage of fat hamburger used to be before the government's low fat dogma took hold? You know, back in the old days...

.

I remember buying 30% fat ground beef back in the 70's. I don't know if there might have been even higher percentages of fat ground beef at some point, because I wasn't buying meat before that. That may have been about the time they actually started stating the fat content. Even so, that was obviously before the low fat propaganda really started in earnest, since it referred only to the fat content of the ground beef, as opposed to how they refer to the lean content now.



There still must have been some public awareness that ground beef from different cuts of meat had different fat percentages, because I remember seeing ground chuck, ground round, and ground sirloin in the stores during that era too. Even though those designations only referred to the cut of beef being used in that package of ground beef, you could still see a definite difference between the 3 cuts in fat content.



I clearly remember seeing ground beef in the 70's that was mixed with soy protein too. That was the cheapest version - With good reason of course, but it was the ground beef of choice for broke college students. I don't recall the package saying how much soy protein was in it, but the color of the mixture was sort of pinkish, because it was not only higher in fat, but then with the soy blended into it, that made the whole thing lighter in color than the 30% fat ground beef.
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  #56   ^
Old Tue, Sep-01-20, 04:25
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
It's like Dunkin Donuts which now offers bacon as a side you can order, which sounds great too, until you find out they coat the bacon strips in brown sugar.


This is so common: like the way fast food hamburger buns have sugar in them, and there's plastic in the milkshakes, and so much of "taco meat" isn't meat.
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  #57   ^
Old Tue, Sep-01-20, 06:40
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
This is so common: like the way fast food hamburger buns have sugar in them, and there's plastic in the milkshakes, and so much of "taco meat" isn't meat.


Not excusing the amount of sugar they use in the buns, but yeast raised dough needs to have at least a little sugar (or honey, maple syrup - something with a sugar component in it) in order to feed the yeast, so the dough will rise properly. It doesn't need to have enough sugar to make the finished product taste sweet though, just enough to feed the yeast, so they could certainly use a lot less sugar in the bun recipe.

Even a LC yeast raised bread recipe I have calls for 1 tsp of honey or sugar per loaf, in order to feed the yeast. The creator of that particular recipe insists that every bit of the sugars in that 1 tsp will be consumed by the yeast, but I sometimes have my doubts about the yeast consuming every last bit of it. Still, even if there's a half of the sugars left over that aren't consumed by the yeast, whatever is left would be divided between 16 slices, and unless you're eating a lot of the bread at one time, makes it rather negligible.

Commercially made bread products really don't need as much sugar in them as they have - they only use so much to make the bread taste sweeter. There's a reason that visitors to the US from some countries complain that they can't get real bread in the US, that all we have is cake. (I've heard this specific complaint from Australians, but visitors from many other countries probably feel the same way)
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  #58   ^
Old Tue, Sep-01-20, 08:59
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Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Restaurants are not interested in your health. They are interested in making the food taste good so that people come back again.

To most people, that means sugar.

Bob
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  #59   ^
Old Tue, Sep-01-20, 10:00
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Another restaurant trick is to lightly coat meat with corn starch as it browns nicely.

I rarely eat out. Cant be sure of what Im ingesting from a low carbers point of view.
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  #60   ^
Old Tue, Sep-01-20, 14:09
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
Not excusing the amount of sugar they use in the buns, but yeast raised dough needs to have at least a little sugar (or honey, maple syrup - something with a sugar component in it) in order to feed the yeast, so the dough will rise properly.


McDonald's is known for using extra sugar so the buns brown up attractively. And of course the white flour in that bun is just as bad
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