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  #16   ^
Old Sat, Aug-15-20, 15:55
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,123
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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I restrict what I eat, but don't find it restrictive, I find it decadent compared to what I ate on low-cal low-fat low-taste high-carb diets. I also follow the don't eat what you don't like advice. Gone are the days of dry tuna on a plain lettuce leaf. Bring on the salad with full fat dressing and prime rib!
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  #17   ^
Old Sat, Aug-15-20, 19:10
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,677
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/171/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 128%
Location: Florida
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don't forget bacon and cheese too!!!
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Aug-16-20, 04:25
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 13,085
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
Too bad it doesn't work the other way because sugar tastes good but is also bad for me.

Bob


I had a breakthrough when I expanded my definition of "good" beyond the immediate taste of whatever it is.

How does it make me feel? Right after, ten minutes after, the next morning? This was a big step in getting over my eating disorder, when I connected the appeal of whatever junk I was contemplating with how it made me feel, long term.

Like yesterday, when I wound up eating some potato salad in a group dining situation. Sure enough, my hands hurt the rest of the day. Aside from the nightshade issues, it's also the seed oil in the mayo.

I'll remember that the next time I am tempted.
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Aug-16-20, 05:00
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 728
 
Plan: Protein Power/Atkins
Stats: 250/181/165 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama

Too bad it doesn't work the other way because sugar tastes good but is also bad for me.

Bob


Isn't that the truth!
The older I get, the more sweet tastes good and protein tastes blah.
No wonder we see so many obese elderly if they follow their taste buds.
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Aug-16-20, 07:00
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,559
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I had a breakthrough when I expanded my definition of "good" beyond the immediate taste of whatever it is.

How does it make me feel? Right after, ten minutes after, the next morning?


This is what I have had to do with cheese. I do love the taste, but the side effects just aren't worth it - tho often have to give myself a talking to so as not to succumb to temptation. Especially in the grocery store. If I'm tired or hungry I can't go near the cheese aisle. It's like when I first gave up bread - I had to avoid the bakery section.
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Aug-16-20, 07:33
BlueVelvet's Avatar
BlueVelvet BlueVelvet is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 197
 
Plan: Atkins NDR (2002)
Stats: 270.2/236/165 Female 5ft
BF:
Progress: 33%
Location: UK
Unhappy Living examples of a world dominated by the food industry



Quote:
Originally Posted by Benay
Isn't that the truth!
The older I get, the more sweet tastes good and protein tastes blah.
No wonder we see so many obese elderly if they follow their taste buds.


To be fair, there are multiple reasons as to why older people seek out food-stuffs that make them more likely to gain weight:

* Shrinking/atrophy of taste buds. Over time the body regenerates fewer taste buds, which themselves are less effective than the ones that came before them. When it's harder to taste certain foods, a person is more likely to go with whatever is pleasant to their diminishing palate.

* Texture of foods. Loss of teeth, dentures, weakening of jaw muscles etc all make certain foods off limits to older people. If it hurts to eat something, it's highly unlikely that you'll want to put yourself through the hassle of trying.
Digestive problems. Weakening of stomach acid, thinning of stomach wall, increased likelihood of acid reflux etc, all make certain foods an uncomfortable eating experience.

* Loss of appetite. Protein is very filling. Carbohydrates not so much (hence why we've all eaten our way to being overweight/obese ourselves). A more sedentary lifestyle, combined with a natural slowing down of one's metabolism also means less fuel is needed in the first place.

* Financial restrictions. People living on a pension don't have the same purchasing power as someone on an occupational income. The cheapest foodstuffs are rarely the healthiest, especially when said individuals can only get out once a week/fortnight to stock up, making fresh foodstuffs harder to keep in the house.

* Convenience. No longer having to cook for anyone else disincentivizes individuals to want to go to the effort of cooking food from scratch. When it's only themselves they need to feed, it's a lot easier to grab something quick, ready-made, processed etc. Something that itself is exacerbated by the restriction in physical activity many older people suffer from. It can take a lot of effort and energy to get up and down and hover over a stove as your joints seize up and you tire easily.

That's not to say that your point wasn't valid; it's just a much smaller part of a way bigger picture regarding how older people's lifestyles change so much over time that their eating habits become a multifaceted issue - as they are for many of us.

What's really unfortunate is that when you take someone who is in their 80's/90's and look back through the decades they have lived through, they have been the food industry's guinea pigs when it comes to what is now considered 'accepted knowledge' regarding food. These individuals (I'm talking over here in the UK) were born into rationing. A time when consumption was limited and adherence to the food pyramid style of 'nutrition' didn't cause mass obesity. These individuals were far more active; far less sedentary. Convenience foods only really began to take off in the 50's/60's and even then, there wasn't the constant bombardment with advertisements for snack foods and sugary foodstuffs.

They have lived through the time of the sugar companies lobbying to get the government on side with regards to carbohydrate consumption. As their lives modernised and their need to expend calories decreased, they were also being told that fat was bad, too much dietary cholesterol was bad and too much meat was unhealthy. They have literally lived their lives with their diets being at the whim of those who wanted to control the farming economies on both sides of the pond. Where having something like HFCS introduced into everything was a political move, rather than a consumer health move.

Born into an era when meat, potatoes and veg was perfectly acceptable, they now exist in a time so far removed from back then, that it's no surprise that their metabolisms are insanely wrecked. Those old people in their 80's/90's who are incredibly overweight get looked at as though they are simply people who don't care. Who just let themselves go. When in reality, they are a living example of what happens to a person when you completely change up their way of life and then hold their metabolism hostage to whatever whims the food industry has peddled over the years.

Science has helped to cure a multitude of diseases and developed treatment for many types of cancers. These people who - like their parents - probably expected to live until they were 60/70 max, have been given the gift of longevity, along with the added bitter pill of other health issues to deal with in their later years. It's actually kind of heartbreaking when you think about it.
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  #22   ^
Old Sun, Aug-16-20, 07:35
BlueVelvet's Avatar
BlueVelvet BlueVelvet is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 197
 
Plan: Atkins NDR (2002)
Stats: 270.2/236/165 Female 5ft
BF:
Progress: 33%
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
I can be very restrictive, and I am. It was that or stay fat.

I gave up a lot of foods that I love, but for the first time in my adult life I have a BMI that is in the normal range. On the high side of normal, but not overweight or obese.

I come from a 300 pound family and this morning I weighed 170. My parents died early from obesity diseases and my siblings who are also around 300 are unhealthy.

There are very few carbs in my diet. To stay in keto, my limit is 20, and I rarely get that many. I like life, I like moving around without needing joint replacements, and I like almost never getting sick (one mild cold every 15 years or so -- I'm 74 and on zero prescriptions).

Plus I follow the arthritis/bursitis diet and both my former arthritis and bursitis are gone - without any meds.

The good health and mobility means more than the variety of delicious foods I used to eat. I enjoy what I eat now, but it is by no means anything like a feast.

Your health is your most important asset. If you are sick, all the money in the world will only buy you a better hospital room and/or casket.

I used to live to eat, now I eat to live.

Bob


Now THIS is the kind of motivation I joined this board for!
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  #23   ^
Old Sun, Aug-16-20, 13:36
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,677
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/171/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 128%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I had a breakthrough when I expanded my definition of "good" beyond the immediate taste of whatever it is.

How does it make me feel? Right after, ten minutes after, the next morning? <...snip...>

Unfortunately, that doesn't work for me. I can eat tons of bad stuff and I won't feel bad after it. In my family food=good and that's it.

From what I read I'm a slow metabolizer for many foods. I can eat tons of chicken, and it will be a week before the bursitis flares up. I can drink 4 cups of coffee before bedtime and sleep with no problem.

On the other hand, some foods that are supposed to be good for me make me sick, like onions. My body knows that so I can't get them past the gag reflex.

It's strange how different people can have such different reactions to the same foods.


Bob
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  #24   ^
Old Mon, Aug-17-20, 04:35
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 13,085
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
It's strange how different people can have such different reactions to the same foods.


Bob


This is where the book, Death by Food Pyramid, is still the only work I am aware of which explores this angle.

We are all a collection of what our ancestors ate. They gave us different enzyme patterns. Without the right enzymes to break down food into useful nutritional components, food becomes far less nourishing, or even actually harmful.

My symptoms of gluten sensitivity were not those of celiac; and I don't have celiac, I'm sure. What I got was a painless swelling of my intestines. When I realized, I stopped eating gluten. Now, years later, I can't take one bite of gluten without feeling nauseated, and eating more produces a "stomach on fire" reaction that I'll never risk voluntarily.

My reaction to lectins (legumes, brown rice, soy) is even more dramatic. I don't get any warning that there's lectins in what I'm eating, until hours later, when my body acts like I've been poisoned like something out of Game of Thrones.

I had no idea my body was reacting to such common staples of food. I had to not eat them for weeks... and now I can't eat them at all.

But all along I was eating them, and they were making me fat and sick? Now, I think so.
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  #25   ^
Old Mon, Aug-17-20, 07:40
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,559
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I had no idea my body was reacting to such common staples of food.


It took me YEARS to figure out that my weird symptoms were caused by cheese (probably any dairy, but I don't pig out on other dairy products). Then I spent a few more years trying to eat smaller amounts of cheese to see what I could tolerate. Turned out to be a pretty small amount. I feel so much better without the cheese - but I still deal with its siren call!
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  #26   ^
Old Mon, Aug-17-20, 16:19
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,677
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/171/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 128%
Location: Florida
Default

Have you tried A2 cheese from European or Australian cows?

My wife has a problem with A1 milk/cheese (which is all the milk/cheese produced by US Holstein cows). It seems they have a genetic defect that turns one amino acid into a histidine, which your body turns into a histimine. https://www.drlaurendeville.com/articles/dairy-europe/

My wife can't tolerate US dairy, it gives her black eyes and some nausea. When vacationing in Australia she could have real cream in her coffee and eat all the cheese she wanted with no problem. When we got home I did the intensive investigation, tried a few things out, and it turned out to be A1 dairy.

Now we buy cheese imported from Europe and she has no problems with it.

Bob
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  #27   ^
Old Tue, Aug-18-20, 04:26
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 728
 
Plan: Protein Power/Atkins
Stats: 250/181/165 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 81%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Default

Thank you BlueVelvet for explaining to an 86-year-old about aging and food.

It might surprise you to know, I am familiar with your information on many levels - including personal experience.

When I was much younger, I couldn't see the attraction to studying Gerontology. Now that I am an old woman, I am grateful to those same people for providing answers to my questions. I am pleased BlueVelvet that you are interested in my age group. It's people like you who help to keep us on track. Welcome to this forum.

We are all so different in our relationships with food both emotionally and physically. (I would hate to develop a physical reaction to cheddar cheese! But I am quite happy with my aversion to chicken. And I resent my change in taste for beef and pork.)

I wonder about our genetic makeup sometimes. We come from all over the world, we are of all races, and our bodies reflect our physical development in adapting to our environment. Then we mix it all up and get quite a variety of responses to foods. I am surprised sometimes that we can make any generalizations at all.

Last edited by Benay : Tue, Aug-18-20 at 05:13.
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  #28   ^
Old Tue, Aug-18-20, 06:47
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 13,085
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benay
I am surprised sometimes that we can make any generalizations at all.


One thing for certain: few of us can adapt to the SAD.
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  #29   ^
Old Tue, Aug-18-20, 07:33
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,962
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueVelvet



To be fair, there are multiple reasons as to why older people seek out food-stuffs that make them more likely to gain weight:

* Shrinking/atrophy of taste buds. Over time the body regenerates fewer taste buds, which themselves are less effective than the ones that came before them. When it's harder to taste certain foods, a person is more likely to go with whatever is pleasant to their diminishing palate.

* Texture of foods. Loss of teeth, dentures, weakening of jaw muscles etc all make certain foods off limits to older people. If it hurts to eat something, it's highly unlikely that you'll want to put yourself through the hassle of trying.
Digestive problems. Weakening of stomach acid, thinning of stomach wall, increased likelihood of acid reflux etc, all make certain foods an uncomfortable eating experience.

* Loss of appetite. Protein is very filling. Carbohydrates not so much (hence why we've all eaten our way to being overweight/obese ourselves). A more sedentary lifestyle, combined with a natural slowing down of one's metabolism also means less fuel is needed in the first place.

* Financial restrictions. People living on a pension don't have the same purchasing power as someone on an occupational income. The cheapest foodstuffs are rarely the healthiest, especially when said individuals can only get out once a week/fortnight to stock up, making fresh foodstuffs harder to keep in the house.

* Convenience. No longer having to cook for anyone else disincentivizes individuals to want to go to the effort of cooking food from scratch. When it's only themselves they need to feed, it's a lot easier to grab something quick, ready-made, processed etc. Something that itself is exacerbated by the restriction in physical activity many older people suffer from. It can take a lot of effort and energy to get up and down and hover over a stove as your joints seize up and you tire easily.

That's not to say that your point wasn't valid; it's just a much smaller part of a way bigger picture regarding how older people's lifestyles change so much over time that their eating habits become a multifaceted issue - as they are for many of us.

What's really unfortunate is that when you take someone who is in their 80's/90's and look back through the decades they have lived through, they have been the food industry's guinea pigs when it comes to what is now considered 'accepted knowledge' regarding food. These individuals (I'm talking over here in the UK) were born into rationing. A time when consumption was limited and adherence to the food pyramid style of 'nutrition' didn't cause mass obesity. These individuals were far more active; far less sedentary. Convenience foods only really began to take off in the 50's/60's and even then, there wasn't the constant bombardment with advertisements for snack foods and sugary foodstuffs.

They have lived through the time of the sugar companies lobbying to get the government on side with regards to carbohydrate consumption. As their lives modernised and their need to expend calories decreased, they were also being told that fat was bad, too much dietary cholesterol was bad and too much meat was unhealthy. They have literally lived their lives with their diets being at the whim of those who wanted to control the farming economies on both sides of the pond. Where having something like HFCS introduced into everything was a political move, rather than a consumer health move.

Born into an era when meat, potatoes and veg was perfectly acceptable, they now exist in a time so far removed from back then, that it's no surprise that their metabolisms are insanely wrecked. Those old people in their 80's/90's who are incredibly overweight get looked at as though they are simply people who don't care. Who just let themselves go. When in reality, they are a living example of what happens to a person when you completely change up their way of life and then hold their metabolism hostage to whatever whims the food industry has peddled over the years.

Science has helped to cure a multitude of diseases and developed treatment for many types of cancers. These people who - like their parents - probably expected to live until they were 60/70 max, have been given the gift of longevity, along with the added bitter pill of other health issues to deal with in their later years. It's actually kind of heartbreaking when you think about it.


Thanks for the list. Some points I was familiar with and others not so much.

Been mulling it over ......wondering if any can be mitigated by IF. Wondering if cultures that live their ancient ways with less available food also have loss of taste........?
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  #30   ^
Old Wed, Aug-19-20, 02:46
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 13,085
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Thanks for the list. Some points I was familiar with and others not so much.

Been mulling it over ......wondering if any can be mitigated by IF. Wondering if cultures that live their ancient ways with less available food also have loss of taste........?


It is my opinion that we know most about aging on the SAD diet. So things are open to improvement.
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