I do love veggies, and actually use them as a treat, but I lose and feel so much better when I stick to super low carb

Going from high-carb to Atkins induction, I noticed (after the first couple of days) an increase in my energy levels. Going from induction to M/E, I noticed a profound increase in my energy levels that has remained to this day. I find it baffling, actually. I don't know what it is about this way of eating that triggers this kind of response. High energy, blunted appetite and no hunger, and consistent weight loss - I'll take it!

I don't plan on going off this WOE for the time being. It's been too beneficial for me and incredibly easy to stick with.

I know that Dr. Robert Atkins said "Exercise is non-negotiable." Where did he state that "Vegetables are non-negotiable?" Which book was that in?

You have become what is known as "keto adapted". This happens when you keep your carbs very low. Perhaps as low as 5g per day is necessary. It takes a while for the body to adapt and get use to running totally on fat. I've heard anywhere from 2-8 weeks. But, when it happens, it's great.

I agree, Hellistile. He said you COULD eat vegetables, but I don't believe he ever said you HAD to.

OK, he says no more than 20g. It could be less. But, if you do eat up to 20g, then most of it should be from veggies.

Only if you eat it mostly raw. I'll take veggies over raw meat any day.

I think I'd rather cut out dairy for awhile (during weight loss, that is) before even considering cutting out vegetables. Not because I think "veggies are a MUST" as the OP suggested, but rather ...if one is going to start cutting out things from their WOE I think dairy is far less essential than veggies might be. I can get calcium from other foods whereas I think it might be harder to get those phytonutrients if I ditch the veggies.

Yeah, I know..one could choose to eat their meat raw...but uh..I'm just not up for that, thanks.

Mmmmmm.....Raw meat. I like mine just seared on the outside. 30 seconds per side in a hot pan does the trick.

You know, if it's between raw meat or veggies, I'd just have give that CR thing a try!

Wow, some of the vegetable people here are so vicious.
This is entertaining. I like hockey fights, too.

As for the "official studies that prove vegetables are good for you", sorry, man. Official studies used to say smoking was harmless and that you needed to be leeched to clear out your humors and gorillas were a myth.

I'm sticking to my M&E with the occasional cream and will even have, on rare occasion, cake, chocolate, fruits, or other useless empty, bad-for-me treats.

I bet I could Google "low fat diet" and come up with well over 56,000 articles that "prove" they're successful and good for you as well. My doctor says I'm getting healthier, my body is loving me bigtime, and I'm happy.

It sounds like some people here aren't. That's really sad. Seriously.

You know, that's precisely how I think of it too. If I'm gonna use a "carb" count, then I mind as well use them on chocolates, cake, and ice cream. Just feels so much more "bang for the buck" than, say, a head of cabbage, plate of carrot sticks, or pot of broccoli.

^I would be interested in reading more links to articles about why vegetables are just as empty as cake, chocolate etc and unecessary.

thank you for all the helpful information!

OK I admit to not wading through all 12 pgs of this thread...so far I didnt read much from either side that I think qualifies as mean...........seems pretty civilized on this one..at least to me.