gailx
I have severe SAD though not quite as severe as you. I do get up in winter, I have to work, but sometimes esp. in Jan/Feb just my body is present.

In the vitamin D experiment we have people who don't have SAD or have other vitamin D deficiency symptoms that are doing well on 1200-1600 IU a day. I need to take 3600-4800 IU/day. I'm African-American (Black) and so suffer with an inherent inability to make adequate amounts of D. On cloudy days I really need that extra 800-1200 IU. I take 1200 IU at a time, three times a day (when I need to I take a fourth dose of 800-1200 IU), with 600 mg calcium and 300 mg magnesium. It might sound like a lot but studies say the body needs 4,000 IU to function in the winter and with SAD symptoms I figure I produce about nil on my own. Your body lets you know that you're getting too much, you get irritable. I've been up to 4800 IU and still haven't reached the irritability point.

I've suffered with SAD all my life and have been on anti depressants three times. Had to get off each time as I couldn't stand the effects. I, too, feel the switch in the spring and turn into a different person.

Please to give the vitamin D theraphy a try. It's been a miracle to me.

I don't know how many of these you've read but here they are again. I hope they're helpful.

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/cont...l/317/7171/1466
http://www.gaucher.org.uk/bonemarch02.htm
http://www.lef.org/prod_hp/abstracts/php-ab424.html

Vitamin D and leucine
http://www.drpressman.com/Library/AminoAcids2.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...7&dopt=Abstract
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041016/food.asp

http://www.cabotcheese.com/pdf/Zemel-OR-April2004.pdf

Leucine and muscle
http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abst...8?view=abstract

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/li...62.2001.00845.x

http://www.healthcentral.com/news/n...xt.cfm?ID=14125

Vitamin D and cal/mag
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocent...amins/vitaminD/

http://www.bioticsresearch.com/PDF/...4%20Vasquez.pdf

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshe...525,905,00.html

http://www.osteoporosis.ca/english/...default.asp?s=1

http://www.nof.org/prevention/calcium.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...4&dopt=Abstract

SAD and vitamin D
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...43711-2004May20

http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/23/vitamin_d.htm

http://www.westonaprice.org/nutriti...n_vitaminD.html

http://www.mercola.com/2004/jun/12/vitamin_d.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/14/vitamin_d_book.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2003/jan/11/vitamin_d.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jun/19/sun.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2003/nov/22/vitamin_d.htm

Vitamin D toxicity, My Journal
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...&page=236&pp=15

Hi, Zule.

I can't remember this...do you have associated sleep problems with your SAD?

If so, do you think the Vit D is helping that also?

Thanks.

Hi,

thanks you both for your advice, those links will keep me busy..! Quitetone, you have hit the nail on the head, when you said, I am in a constant half asleep half awake mode. I get the odd hour and it can be anywhere (usually after about two hours of wake) of feeling normal, then in a switch I want to snooze. I dont actaully often go into a real sleep, its a sort of cat nap thing, I have to have quite, lights off, but my brain doest actually go into sleep.

At the moment I have a few days of migrain so cant handle the light at all. And I dont want to talk to anyone, I have had the phones turned off for three days. I know tomorrow I will make myself put them back on. I just hate being this person.

However, whats really starting to bother me, is will I be like this every winter for the rest of my life? In my younger days, I use to start to go on one big party from my birthday to christmas so I used to put it down to late night and a wild life...? From 35yrs old I got quiter in my ways and noticed I still felt like I had been out going wild drinking gallons and it didnt make sence. I have noticed I am allergic to wheat as I loved wheat-a-bix and used to live on them, once I cut out this food, the hangover part of my feelings stopped.

Have either of you sorted out the problem and can lead a normal life? It totally devistates me, (heck im crying) in the winter. I am very positive and achieve great things in the summer, I am trying to start a new business, as I am a photographer too but its so hard as I have to schedule any meetings at like 4.00pm... and my brain sometimes just doesnt want to do anything but be a couch potatoe, when my passion and heart wants to run wild and be creative and sucessful. The most I can achieve is making sure with effort I am up about 3.00 even if I dont sleep proper till 9.00am, and it takes two hours to wake up and feel normalish. I do business things then at 8.00pm I make myself go the guy for two hours. I feel normal when I come home and I am alive from 8.00pm to about 2.00am then I start to feel sleepy but wont sleep till 6.00am onwards. I do force myself to do these things and its the most I feel I can do.

Also when I have gone abroad in the winter within a couple of days I am back to normal. I have recently completed a degree in photography and want to take my masters but I know till I have this SAD sorted out I have no hope of getting to classes never mind the mental work load that goes with study. My third year of my degree was hell trying to get to at the start of winter, and so I may be ok next winter?

Its getting to me this winter thinking I will be like this each year. I have come off venlaflaxine which was for a bad time I had in my life a few years ago, ( a dodgy boyfriend, and my PA stole half my business, nearly lost house because of him), I was on them last winter and it didnt really make any difference to my health. I dont feel anti-d's is the answer.

I will spend sometime trying the vit D's, one of my friends is very knowledgeable in these matters so I will ask him all about the vit d-s and let you know how I got on.

I will try two hours of the light as last year I had a stronger light box and the more I used it the better I felt, although my bodyclock was messed up, it was about 1.pm I averaged getting up. Not so bad I can hack that!

As far as anti-d's go, here is a bit of advice for anyone, I have read lots about ppl having bad problems getting off them. It took me about 18mothns, but I did it real slow. I opened the capsuls and worked out what 1mg was and reduced them real slowly buy taking out 1mg then if I felt funny, I would go back to the does I felt ok on, then leave it for a while, then tried again in a month or so later. This worked I had no side effects apart from the odd day I had taken too much out too soon.

I am very glad I have finally gotten off them!

SO please let me know if you guys are having a normal life now! I found this site today, www.apollohealth.com there is lots about this new light box, very scientific and the top lite box is $399, and there is a test there which tells youwhen you should use the light so its doing you good.

Many thansk and sorry if I have been a real downer in this message!
Regards,
Gailxx

Hi,

Thanks you both for your advice, those links will keep me busy..! Quitetone, you have hit the nail on the head, when you said, I am in a constant half asleep half awake mode. I get the odd hour and it can be anywhere (usually after about two hours of wake) of feeling normal, then in a switch I want to snooze. I dont actaully often go into a real sleep, its a sort of cat nap thing, I have to have quite, lights off, but my brain doest actually go into sleep.

At the moment I have a few days of migrain so cant handle the light at all. And I dont want to talk to anyone, I have had the phones turned off for three days. I know tomorrow I will make myself put them back on. I just hate being this person.

However, whats really starting to bother me, is will I be like this every winter for the rest of my life? In my younger days, I use to start to go on one big party from my birthday to christmas so I used to put it down to late night and a wild life...? From 35yrs old I got quiter in my ways and noticed I still felt like I had been out going wild drinking gallons and it didnt make sence. I have noticed I am allergic to wheat as I loved wheat-a-bix and used to live on them, once I cut out this food, the hangover part of my feelings stopped.

Have either of you sorted out the problem and can lead a normal life? It totally devistates me, (heck im crying) in the winter. I am very positive and achieve great things in the summer, I am trying to start a new business, as I am a photographer too but its so hard as I have to schedule any meetings at like 4.00pm... and my brain sometimes just doesnt want to do anything but be a couch potatoe, when my passion and heart wants to run wild and be creative and sucessful. The most I can achieve is making sure with effort I am up about 3.00 even if I dont sleep proper till 9.00am, and it takes two hours to wake up and feel normalish. I do business things then at 8.00pm I make myself go the guy for two hours. I feel normal when I come home and I am alive from 8.00pm to about 2.00am then I start to feel sleepy but wont sleep till 6.00am onwards. I do force myself to do these things and its the most I feel I can do.

Also when I have gone abroad in the winter within a couple of days I am back to normal. I have recently completed a degree in photography and want to take my masters but I know till I have this SAD sorted out I have no hope of getting to classes never mind the mental work load that goes with study. My third year of my degree was hell trying to get to.

Its getting to me this winter thinking I will be like this each year. I have come off venlaflaxine which was for a bad time I had in my life a few years ago, ( a dodgy boyfriend, and my PA stole half my business, nearly lost house because of him), I was on them last winter and it didnt really make any difference to my health. I dont feel anti-d's is the answer.

I will spend sometime trying the vit D's, one of my friends is very knowledgeable in these matters so I will ask him all about the vit d-s and let you know how I got on.

I will try two hours of the light as last year I had a stronger light box and the more I used it the better I felt, although my bodyclock was messed up, it was about 1.pm I averaged getting up. Not so bad I can hack that!

As far as anti-d's go, here is a bit of advice for anyone, I have read lots about ppl having bad problems getting off them. It took me about 18mothns, but I did it real slow. I opened the capsuls and worked out what 1mg was and reduced them real slowly buy taking out 1mg then if I felt funny, I would go back to the does I felt ok on, then leave it for a while, then tried again in a month or so later. This worked I had no side effects apart from the odd day I had taken too much out too soon.

I am very glad I have finally gotten off them!

SO please let me know if you guys are having a normal life now! I found this site today, www.apollohealth.com there is lots about this new light box, very scientific and the top lite box is $399, and there is a test there which tells youwhen you should use the light so its doing you good.

Many thansk and sorry if I have been a real downer in this message!
Regards,
Gailxx

Hi, Gail.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no I still don't feel my life is normal. You are not wrong that you feel better when you get somewhere further south. I don't know where you would need to go there in Europe, but here in America you have to be below Atlanta, GA to feel any better during the winter (or at least that is what the experts say). That is how far it takes for the sun to be sufficient enough to give you enough light. If i wasn't married, that is where I would go...in a heartbeat. I hate feeling this way in the winter and would love not to lose six months every year. This year is a little bit better because of the Vit D and light. I have also been trying to make myself walk outside at lunch.

Yes, I tried the anti-d's also. Didn't like the side effects. And trying to get off of them in March really messed up my spring.

Hi Q,

I just re read your messages, I am very sorry to hear you have had such a bad time this year.

Do you know of anyone who is much better with lights or sorting out their SAD? And what is Fibro you have?

I have been thinking of moving, for winters but I have a cat, and a happy (well.. happy- ish) life here so thats a tough one to just up an off!

Ive been a little positive tonight, I have finised some promo stuff for the new business, so that makes me feel good that im not just slobbin about wasting days.

How long have you had sad and whats the percentage of improvement once you tried treatment?
Thanks for your messages they do help.
Regards,
GAilxx

Fibro is fibromyalgia. It is basically muscle pains, sleep problems, mood swings, constant fatigue. I have noticed the "flares" seem to come with my SAD.

Looking back, I think I have had SAD since my teenage years, with worsening symptoms as I entered peri-menopause.

I have noticed over the years that the SAD is much worse during PMS and the PMS is much worse during SAD. Another egg/chicken question.

But getting sleep helps my fibro symptoms a lot and that is one area I concentrate on. I take one melatonin and one benadryl and I usually will sleep thorugh the night with that.

I don't know of anyone who has successfully defeated SAD, unfortunately. Although a couple of people on this site feel that they have by taking Vitamin D. I feel much better when I take anti-d's, but I don't like the side effects at all. And when I was taking effexor, I am pretty sure it was having some peculiar estrogenic effect.

I have noticed that the more stress I have in my life the worse the symptoms seem to be of SAD, so it differs somewhat from year to year. Sad to say, I noticed a huge worsening of the symptoms after I got remarried. Not because of DH necessarily, but just dealing with the stress of living with someone after not having done so for 15 years. It has been a tremendous adjustment for me and that seems to make my SAD worse. But my counselor said that was very normal thing to have happen.

The one good thing I will say about using the light is that it seems to keep my mense cycle on tract. Without it, it would go all over the place in the winter. I am not a very disciplined person though. So I don't use the light as I should. It seems even harder to be discplined this time of year. Sometimes I think I could just go for days without moving off the couch if I was allowed to.

Sorry but this is a bad morning, following a bad night. My DH has SAD too and has stopped trying anything for it. His depression is atypical (meaning he gets irritable and nasty instead of depressed and weepy) so it is very tough sometimes.

One word of advice for any single persons: if you suffer with SAD, don't marry anyone who does too. It can become a nightmare.

Gailx
I've suffered from SAD for over 30 years, ever since preadolescence. I think it gets worse as you get older. this is the best I've ever felt and I can function but it's taking 4,000 IU a day of vitamin D.

Actually January/February are my worse times of the year and I can feel that my energy is waning and my brain is fogging. Part is probably due to missing a dose/day on the weekends but part, I am sure is because it's January. If my symptoms don't improve by Wednesday, I'll up the D another dose. I sure liked how I felt until this point. I have never accomplished so much during a winter and my house has never been cleaner!!!

I think finding the D, for me, has been a miracle!!! I didn't turn into a weepy, disconnected slug this winter!!!

Everyone has commented on my improvement/new winter personality.

"a weepy, disconnected slug"

I couldn't have described it better!