Ok, since I am

a) in a two week stall and b) no longer in ketosis c) really cranky

I am going to "get real". I am eliminating diet soda/artificial sweeteners/coffee/heavy cream too...its all gone. I am taking an approach that if it wasnt available to my caveman ancestors, its not available to me. I am doing this from now until I break this stall and drop under 265 lbs.

If anyone else is in a stall and wants to join the "get real" club...great. If not.."Grog eat alone"

I anticipate eating about like this... dropping carbs to old school atkins low

eggs/water

eggs/water

fish/water/lettuce

beef/water

chicken/water/green veggie/water

*again, no artificial sweeteners or sauces etc. just getting real until I am down to 265 and in ketosis. If this doesnt work? well, Ill need some new running shoes because at 268 they are going to wear out in a hurry!

I know you're going to hate me for this, but it's entirely possible that the huge amounts of protein you eat are causing some of it to be converted to glucose and knocking you out of ketosis. If that's true, then no matter how low you go on carbs, it won't help. I looked back at your "my diet" thread, and I counted at least 36 ounces of protein a day. I thought it was too much then, but it seemed to be working for you, but now that I see it's not and you posted it here so it must be open to feedback, so here it is...from a veteran low-carber.

The Protein Power 30-Day LC solution (the most liberal plan that offers a protein target) lists your target at 18 oz per day. 69 inches, 269 pounds The other versions of their plan target less than that. At 36 oz it's a pretty safe bet that a significant amount of that protein is being converted to glucose. On that plan, ketosis isn't measured, but if your weight loss stalls, one of the first things the Eades suggest you examine is your protein intake, and if it's too high to bring it closer to the target. I never lose weight when my protein intake very high.

Normally I'm not one to combine plans, but I do feel that where Dr A left off in terms of protein intake, the Eades picked up and put out some very good information.

Are you absolutely sure that your eat all it takes isn't really being manifested as eat all you want? Sometimes they're not the same. I can't be the only person here who thinks that 36 ounces of meat is just too much, even on Atkins. And if you're the kind of person who's body readily converts excess protein to glucose then that much protein will definitely sabatoge your progress.

Good luck, at any rate. I'd hate to see you get disillusioned with the plan and give up b/c you're not getting the results you want.

Feedback is great, no sweat- It is alot of protein however I have been down to 228 on similar if not heavier protein consumption than this.(not a first timer here...) the biggest thing i want to examine first is the artificial sweeteners and excessive calories in the heavy cream..then and only then will i reduce protein the reason though, is that I do carry alot of muscle mass. (27 years of lifting and high protein diet...unfortunately, doesnt go well with high carb diet the last couple of years) I would say i was "ripped" at 228 but would be more just "buff" at 235...I cannot really be compared to the average 5 foot 9 270 lb guy whos never worked out and gotten fat. Im heavy and I have a fair amount of fat to lose but I do not want to spare much if any muscle...so yes, i keep my protein up. I cant imagine that 30 lbs later its suddenly too much protein and converting to sugar..can you? I mean I have lost 30 lbs here. looking at my records here the biggest calorie changes were ADDING cals right around the time my "stall" started...late nights and added stress (cortisol can cause stalls) led to me turning back to coffee (my nemesis), and I drink 2 huge mugs worth at a sitting, probably 6 of those a day...each with splenda mixed in...so figure that is the culpret.

I am of course open to exploring the "i need to cut down protein" if this cleaner diet doesnt get me rolling again. I did drop a half lb from yesterday to today...so we will see. still no signs of ketones..maybe I got some bad sticks? Or maybe i dont produce acetone? whatever , im a gamer and cleaning up the old diet...protein will definitely be the last to go. i know from experience that many of the bigger heavy wt body bodybuilders, my self included have "ripped up" on 300-500 grams of protein each day...I dont know my actual grams but I suppose I could figure that out.

and no, id never give up, I feel like a million bucks eating this way and my skin looks so much better (i had acne issues before getting back to low carb)..havent seen a blemish since. also, i think i still might be losing inches (slowly)...no, dont worry about me, this is a life style I plan to live forever.

Good luck Earthquake. You have given me many of positive feedback. Im still very new to this WOE I dont really have any advice. Just support. I hope you get the results you want. If you do, I just might join in. Im ready to try anything at this point, with the exception of giving up.....Again, Good luck. Keep us all posted.

I think that the heavy cream could be doing it. I love heavy cream in my coffee too. I used it as one of my winter treats, and it made me stall. The only way I recognized it was because I didn't lose when I was drinking it, since I stopped, I have went down another size in jeans. (I don't weigh every day like some, I guage my loss by clothes size). I love my coffee, but I want the weight loss more.

yeah, I know I am not the brightest guy in the world but that heavy creamer is like my worst temptation. its loaded with calories and of course it doesnt fit "if it doesnt make you stronger, dont eat it" - which I try to remember..

Now, my excuse- we have three little ones, theres not much rest to be had here at night...so caffeine is where i turn when i get only 2-3 hours of sleep...I like coffee only when its creamy and sweet...yknow, as i stated before, I was never fat until i started drinking coffee and putting sugar and cream in it (worked evening shift at a hospital, it was "the thing to do")...gained alot of weight...I think the caffeine was self medicating really.

ah, could drive myself nuts with this...bottom line, too many calories, too much carbs, not enough exercise and maybe too much protein since I havent been lifting as regularly as i was (see that Elle, there was a good chance that you are right, my protein consumption remained up but my lifting hasnt been consistent these last two weeks either- only two workouts in that time...darn good thing to keep a journal!)...

my theory is this...

i can eat huge quantities of protein AS LONG AS IM LIFTING HARD AND THE PROTEIN IS UTILIZED. ...if not...no need for all that meat. Anyhow, got my workout in at 5 am today.

well, I am guessing that I am back to ketosis, that taste/breath is unmistakeable and I notice the change in urine odor that goes with ketosis as well...never thought Id find any of those things comforting. all it took was no coffee and or creamer since yesterday am. no diet sodas either. just clean proteins and fats and leafy veggies. I will try the ketostix later and see if they show "trace" or more...but I am guessing that yes, back to ketosis.

Congrats on getting back into ketosis!! Must have been the cream consumption that was knocking you out!

The other thing I was thinking about your stall is the fact that you HAVE lost 30 pounds. Therefore, you really do need less calories to sustain your weight. Perhaps you've been eating enough to sustain you current weight, and just needed to cut enough to keep the scale moving in the downward direction again (?).

I've long known that my body is extremely efficient at staying at one set weight. No matter what I'm doing diet-wise, my appetite adjusts so I eat exactly the right amount to keep me right where I am. The key for me is to allow myself to experience *some* hunger. I don't mean starvation....at all!! I mean allowing myself to experience just a little of that nagging "I-should-eat-something" feeling, without indulging it. That's how I know the scale will move downward. It's much easier to survive that feeling in ketosis, that's for sure!!

Well, I'm glad to know we're both breaking our stalls this weekend!! I've stayed the same today, but I'm relieved because I ate strawberries last night for the first time. I had no idea what to expect!! Luckily it wasn't a gain!!

Are you getting enough fat? Once I started eating 65% of my calories from fat, my crankiness vanished. And I'd been cranky on low to moderate fat diets for ~35 yrs!

Too much cream causes me cravings too, but I do OK if I only have 1/2T at a time in unsweetened coffee and don't have more than 2T/day. I get my fat from meat, poultry, fish, eggs, coconut oil, olive oil, butter & nuts.

I do get the protein I need (according to the Eades' recommendations) and 30g carbs/day and the rest is fat. I actually lost faster on more fat than I did when eating more protein. Also, fat tends to be cheaper than protein and fills you up faster. My bloodwork went from borderline bad to the middle of the normal range on my high fat diet.

It's hard for me to imagine anyone drinking enough cream to knock themselves out of ketosis. I've eaten/drank up to 1/2 cup in a day (this occurs at least twice a week) and my sticks were still dark purple...it was a very happy day, BTW. I notice that the more fat I eat, the better I feel emotionally.

ya know, everyone's body is different and responds to things differently ..... try it for a few weeks and see if it gets you anywhere....if not, switch it up again. i have found that experimenting is the best thing when it comes to this WOE.

good luck !

well, I have no idea just how much creamer I actually was consuming(alot, trust me) but i did go back and read atkins book (for about the 6th time) and he says to limit the consumption of heavy cream to two teaspoons...ok, I probably had 6-8 times that in each cup, and up to 6 cups like that a day...sooooooo, yeah, i think i did the right thing. Only time will tell. i do know this, when I lived the atkins diet before and got to 228, I was not drinking coffee at all but was having diet pepsi. I just think it was probably too much creamer, too many calories and probably too many carbs, maybe im "1 in 100" dieters that has to go very low carbs (ie in atkins book he does tell folks that get knocked out of ketosis or stall early on to go back "to zero carbs" and even limit salads. i argued with my wife several times last summer that salads, spinach and even broccoli all seemed to knock me out of ketosis. btw, in atkins rules, he also says that smaller more frequent meals are desirable for those that asked) I dont forget that I get plenty of carbs from my egg consumption too. if I was getting 5-6 grams of carbs a day from creamer and sweeteners, another 7 a day from eggs, another 2-3 carbs from ham, cheese and bacon or salad dressing, another 5 or 6 grams from veggies...maybe a hidden carb or two in there as well...well, it all adds up.

The one thing that i added that i know i can live without is creamer and coffee. its an addiction that has to be defeated. I have never seen any competive bodybuilder get rid of all fat by using coffee and heavy cream, canola oil yes, creamer no....so I keep that in mind.

None of this is an exact science, there arent two of us that react to any of this the same exact way. Its sure fun to share and explore ideas and opinions though. - Personally, I have alot of trial and error and adjustments to make along the way. I was reading on some of the low carb bodybuilding sites today and those guys tinker and adjust their diets several times as they approach their target weights. chances are as I approach my target weight I will have to reduce calories to get that kind of look that i want...i will then reduce added fats to drop that calorie number, not protein- ill eat fish, chicken and egg whites if i have to, ...not fun, but if thats what it takes, then thats what it takes. my thinking is simple "whatever it takes".

Thanks for everyones thoughts and support. I will definitely look forward to weighing in over the next couple of days.

Afraid you'll have to show me the edition and page number on that one. Never seen that low of a recommendation before. The lowest I recall is FOUR teaspoons in 1972.

I have the yellow book about the new diet revolution...I think its a reprint of the 72 edition. honestly 4 teaspoons wouldnt even come close to what id put in a cup. i more or less had coffee in my cream if ya know what I mean...delich!...but not good for me ha ha. ah well, i was living for a bit. Imagine a big tall beer class...but filled with 1/4 cream and the rest was coffee...and dont forget, i had to put splenda in that too...id drink two of those in the early am, one on the way to work, two more at work and two after dinner...wow, ill bet that was 1000 cals alone? my wife and I plowed thru one, maybe one and a half of those tall heavy creamer containers a day (not cheap!)

Earthquake, pg. 127 DANDR in the induction chapter, he says 2-3 Tablespoons of cream. Turn the page, and on 129, he says 2-3 ounces. Beats 2 teaspoons.