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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Nov-29-08, 14:40
Sagehill Sagehill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,561
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 250/161.4/130 Female 5'3"
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Central FL
Default Glucagon Supplementation?

I have a T2 diabetic neighbor who is very resistant to the idea that she's diabetic... won't take her diabetic prescriptions despite wildly fluctuating blood sugars. She was recently hospitalized for passing out from high blood sugars of over 400.

Even so, she believes that her body is merely "out of balance" and that once she finds what's unbalancing it, her body will correct itself naturally. Unfortunately, she is resistant to LC (though she has tried various variations... Rosedale, Atkins, PP, etc), and says LC just doesn't work with her sensitive body (hard to say, since she never stays on anything more than a couple of days). She is looking for THE silver bullet that will allow her to eat as she likes (hint: her parents were both Italian immigrants). Her father died of a heart attack 30 years ago, her mother died two years ago of long-standing ischemic heart disease related to diabetes not two years ago, after losing both feet, then both lower legs.

On Weds, my neighbor went to a naturopath who is going to provide that silver bullet: Apparently, her pancreas isn't making enough glucagon, so now she's to take glucagon supplements plus several kinds of homeopathic drops to buttress the glucagon supps. Natpath says that after a few months of this, she'll be weaned off all supplements, everything (including weight) will be stabilized and normal again, and she'll be able to eat whatever she likes, just "like everyone else".

She is exhilarated to have found the answer ("I'm not diabetic after all... just glucagon-deficient!!") and is now pitying of my own LC diet restrictions: "Glucagon supplements are the answer for losing weight, not low carb!" I myself am quite dubious and privately taking a "well, we'll see" view. She is distinctly unhealthy-looking, wtih a very diabetic appearance (puffy face, barrel torso, relatively thin legs, etc).

Has anyone heard anything about glucagon supplementation? Everything I read about it seems to be in connection with hypoglycemia and... diabetes, though I'm not sure how the relationship works in diabetes.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Nov-29-08, 18:10
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

Her body would make plenty glucagon if she became low carb. Glucagon is insulin's counter-partner. Insulin keeps glucose from going to high while glucagon prevents it from going too low. Glucagon will not be produced if glucose levels are too high.Everyone has the ability to produce glucagon. T1 diabetics produce too much because they have no insulin to keep the glucose from going to high. It is glucagon production that enhances ketosis/lipolysis. Surprisingly,regardless of the amount of glucagon that can be produced, the body manufactures no glucagon if insulin levels are not stable. The two hormones work to keep glucose at stable levels. It is defined in the Eades' book "Protein Power". So, your friend needs to figure out how to manufacture her own glucagon via low carb.

In continuance, Sage, if I were in your position, I would say to your friend, "Wow, my body makes plenty of glucagon, I wonder why yours doesn't?" You of course know that you produce enough glucagon because of insulin stability that is caused by your low carb lifestyle.

I keep this in my book marks:
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbook...s/glucagon.html

Here is dr. Eades info on glucagon injections:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/...oss-injections/

Last edited by black57 : Sat, Nov-29-08 at 18:35.
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Nov-30-08, 06:13
Sagehill Sagehill is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,561
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 250/161.4/130 Female 5'3"
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Central FL
Default

Thank you, Black! That Colo State article was very helpful in clarifying the relationship. Here's an interesting bit:
Quote:
Two other conditions are known to trigger glucagon secretion:

* Elevated blood levels of amino acids, as would be seen after consumption of a protein-rich meal: In this situation, glucagon would foster conversion of excess amino acids to glucose by enhancing gluconeogenesis. Since high blood levels of amino acids also stimulate insulin release, this would be a situation in which both insulin and glucagon are active.
* Exercise: In this case, it is not clear whether the actual stimulus is exercise per se, or the accompanying exercise-induced depletion of glucose.
So it seems that she is taking unnecessary supplements, if only she'd go low carb. Problem is, I think she resists low-carb because she wants to be a vegetarian (philosophically) and thinks it impossible on low-carb. She says she feels sick when she puts meat in her mouth... doesn't even have to chew to feel nauseous. I wonder if the simultaneous release of glucagon and insulin is a problem for diabetics?
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Nov-30-08, 11:41
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagehill
Thank you, Black! That Colo State article was very helpful in clarifying the relationship. Here's an interesting bit:So it seems that she is taking unnecessary supplements, if only she'd go low carb. Problem is, I think she resists low-carb because she wants to be a vegetarian (philosophically) and thinks it impossible on low-carb. She says she feels sick when she puts meat in her mouth... doesn't even have to chew to feel nauseous. I wonder if the simultaneous release of glucagon and insulin is a problem for diabetics?


There is a vegetarian forum here. Vegetarians can do low carb. I will find the thread and post it here:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=109

Sage, I also agree with you that your friend is taking unnecessary supplements. Her body should be equipped to produce glucagon just like yours or mine. Frankly, I don't know why they even make glucagon supplements especially since they are at the opposite end of insulin and you can't purchase insulin otc. So why is it possible to purchase glucagon otc except for the fact that it will just get washed out of your body. IMHO, if you take glucagon supplements while your insulin is too high, it's not going to do anything. It would just be useless...me thinking out loud. Also, I am willing to wager that your friend has no idea what glucagon is, why not ask her what she knows about it.

Last edited by black57 : Sun, Nov-30-08 at 11:50.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Nov-30-08, 17:12
cindy_cfid cindy_cfid is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 280/188/150 Female 66"
BF:Day37=2"loss belly
Progress: 71%
Default

I believe insulin can't be taken orally (I believe it can't survive stomach acids) and must be administered as an injection sometimes multiple times a day, I'm assuming glucagon would need to be in the same way to get any weight loss effects (not even going into the health hazards of forcing high glucagon in a high insulin environment). Will she be doing injections multiple times a day??

The only info I found online supports my thoughts "Glucagon supplements may have a part to play for anyone who cannot exercise, for example the chronically obese or someone who is ill. However, this sort of treatment should never be undertaken except under close medical supervision. The treatment would be give either intravenously or intramuscularly."
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