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  #1066   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 03:33
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Driving yesterday I ran out of new downloaded podcasts so listened to this one with Dr Jason Fung from April again. Great interview questions and answers. These two episodes have so much common sense about fasting. https://highintensityhealth.com/jas...lin-resistance/

The Kindle price for Complete Fasting book is again $3.15 this morning on east coast US. Even authors can be surprised when Kindle decides to add a product to Daily Deals. No particular reason...or because of Fasting week?

I haven't had any further emails from the Global Fasting Week after that Pro-Lon offer.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Nov-13-18 at 08:31.
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  #1067   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 13:30
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
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It's hard living in a country where meat is not an affordable option for every day. I got really sick avoiding mystery meat at college, then living abroad in Switzerland where meat prices were very high (didn't know how to cook it anyway!). The thing that did the most for my health in my lifetime - more than eating low-carb, more than exercising or getting enough sleep, more than seeing any doctor - was switching to "easy" 1950s style meals when my kids were little. Your basic meat, starch, veg. Adding that meat in was transformational so it's very hard when it's so expensive.
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  #1068   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 13:40
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
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A question. I saw earlier in this threat that FBG is not so important since insulin will cover it. Is A1C still something people would look at? I got sick last year for month - tons of inflammation. In addition to gaining 3-4 pounds a week for some period, my A1C started rising. Even after I was fine again it continued to go up (also weight remained stubbornly high at that high point). I initiated IF to get it under control recently. Any sense of what is the best way to track progress going forward? Is monitoring A1C sufficient? I am not diabetic. Just nosed my way into "prediabetic" (5.9). Any advice would be appreciated.
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  #1069   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 14:03
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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Good job to get your health under control, do what you can. The goal is to keep you insulin levels as low as posssible. As the body malfunctions, the insulin does not work as well and that is where fasting can help restore the insulin sensitivity. From what I have learned I p lan to track the following:

A1c
blood glucose ( own blood kit at home)
C-reactive protein

Annually-- full blood lipid profile.

Work to control inflammation. THru food choices, an elimination diet ( gulp) and reduce stress. I already use lots of onion/scallions/chives; garlic; tumeric, black pepper, and thyme, oregano etc.

Though I understand your thinking at the time, That expensive meat in switzerland was likely to be the best grass fed meat available. And well worth the money. We only need a small amount of meat if that is all there is.

Prediabetes is as bad as diabetes. Dr Atkins talks about this in DANDR. ANd Dr Mark Hyman, MD talks about it in THE BLOOD SUGAR SOLUTION. You might like the latter book--- my copy is via the library.

IMHO you are on the right track to lower inflammation, get the a1c lower, and find our zen. Time to recover from that sickness you suffered.

That is my 2 cents; hopefully others will chime in, as Im no expert, just trying to find my way too.
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  #1070   ^
Old Sat, Nov-24-18, 17:11
nawchem's Avatar
nawchem nawchem is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 8,701
 
Plan: No gluten, CAD
Stats: 196.0/158.5/149.0 Female 62
BF:36/29.0/27.3
Progress: 80%
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I think the hormone insulin is the key to diabetes. I've been moderate hypoglycemic not realizing HgA1c was prediabetic. My plain insulin was 1 on a scale 0 to 5. I did become a diabetic for a while when I had giardia and was told illness can drive your blood sugar up, mine was 224, and 10% glucose in my urine. But these factors taken together were telling the story that I produce too much insulin in response to sugar. I believe this is the same with pregnancy diabetes - you are showing a tendency toward high insulin.

I now regard it as all one disease. I must find ways to stop it from becoming worse and worse.
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  #1071   ^
Old Sun, Nov-25-18, 03:52
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
A question. I saw earlier in this threat that FBG is not so important since insulin will cover it. Is A1C still something people would look at? I got sick last year for month - tons of inflammation. In addition to gaining 3-4 pounds a week for some period, my A1C started rising. Even after I was fine again it continued to go up (also weight remained stubbornly high at that high point). I initiated IF to get it under control recently. Any sense of what is the best way to track progress going forward? Is monitoring A1C sufficient? I am not diabetic. Just nosed my way into "prediabetic" (5.9). Any advice would be appreciated.

A1c isn’t perfect, but it is commonly used with a pattern of high FBG to monitor for diabetes. Chris Kresser wrote why the glycation rates can vary, https://chriskresser.com/why-hemogl...eliable-marker/. Less commonly, doctors may add fasting insulin (Dr Fung and Westman do in certain cases) and consider all blood markers together. On a US lab insulin range of 2.6 - 24.9, below 10 is good, below 5 better. But still the insulin levels after eating are important too (the Kraft test) and most regular doctors hesitate to request even a basic fasting insulin. Amy Berger calls it the most important test Doctors do not order.

Dr Westman interviewed Amy Berger about insulin levels recently...good clip on something not often discussed. https://youtu.be/25NSnwR0Wn8. He said he does not always test, but he did test mine annually 8 years ago and my oncologist continues to add fasting insulin (Hba1c and Vit D too) to his panel as there are studies with connections between recurrence and insulin. OGTT with insulin seems the gold standard but not a common test until there is a serious problem. With just glucose and fasting insulin, you can get HOMA-IR.

Amy's new talk on insulin and 8 part series on it http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2018/1...on-insulin.html

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Nov-25-18 at 05:12.
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  #1072   ^
Old Sun, Nov-25-18, 12:03
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bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Doing My Best
Posts: 4,924
 
Plan: LC/CancerRecovery
Stats: 170/135/130 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 88%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
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Janet, based on your post I went on a tour of Amy's blog. Well, you know how far down the rabbit hole such searches can take us. LOL

Anyway, I read a couple of her posts about hyperinsulinism and decided to do a little experiment of my own. Dr. Fung says that ingesting pure fat doesn't raise insulin. So I had a healthy dose of fat (baked chicken skin crisps) with my tea, then took my BG reading (86). An hour later it had gone down to (82). If my insulin had gone up, my BG would have as well, right? So even though I can't home test my insulin level, it appears that my insulin level and BG level are riding in tandem. Or?
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  #1073   ^
Old Sun, Nov-25-18, 13:21
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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It's more true that if your blood glucose had gone up, your insulin would have gone up. Going in the other direction--a large drop in glucose could be evidence that insulin went up, or the insulin:glucagon ratio went up in insulin's favour. What actually happened is what you'd expect if pure fat had little effect on insulin.



There's a risk here, sometimes I see it when people are testing artificial sweeteners. If glucose goes up--people say it's evidence that insulin went up. If glucose goes down--they can say the same thing. Because--glucose going up increases insulin, right? But insulin going up decreases glucose... So any change can be evidence that insulin went up.

It would actually be reasonable to suggest that insulin might have gone up if glucose stays the same, but that glucagon might have gone up to match.

If all this confuses the issue, my work is done.
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  #1074   ^
Old Mon, Nov-26-18, 00:19
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Mintaka Mintaka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 144
 
Plan: Atkins / Keto / ZC
Stats: 182/130/130 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Janet, thanks very much for your kind words and the link to Zero Carb. Heading over for a look.

Ms Arielle, WereBear, thank you very much. I am due to go to the hospital tomorrow. I get followed up every 3 months.

They call me the cat with nine lives.

Lol. I used the Feldman hack to see if I could lower my cholesterol. Uh, that was a fail. I got read the riot act about my 9.4 Total Cholesterol. 🙄
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  #1075   ^
Old Mon, Nov-26-18, 05:56
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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glenda, I thought I had an answer until read teaser's answer. I think he gave a more complete version to "insulin levels are hard to interpret" reason doctors don’t like to measure it. Amy covered it in her new talk in the above insulin article, put anything in your mouth and insulin will rise to deal with it, so insulin may rise to keep your BG at its normal low level. how much and for how long is what the Kraft test can pick out. I would be more comfortable having a fasting insulin test, and if under 5, consider that good. The test is only $34 at DirectLabs and today Cyber Monday have 25% off, but mine is now in annual bloodwork.

Last edited by JEY100 : Mon, Nov-26-18 at 06:10.
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  #1076   ^
Old Mon, Nov-26-18, 06:23
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintaka
Janet, thanks very much for your kind words and the link to Zero Carb. Heading over for a look.

Ms Arielle, WereBear, thank you very much. I am due to go to the hospital tomorrow. I get followed up every 3 months.

They call me the cat with nine lives.

Lol. I used the Feldman hack to see if I could lower my cholesterol. Uh, that was a fail. I got read the riot act about my 9.4 Total Cholesterol. 🙄


Mintaka, I always smile when you post here!!
Find some of those studies that show longer life with higher cholesterol, tell them you are purposely eating this way to increase your cholesterol levels. mine was just a smidge over 5 in January, loved the doctor's reaction when I said wished it was higher.

I think my highest level cholesterol results were after I fasted close to 24 hours before the draw...wrong! If your lab says a 12-14 hour fast follow the instructions Ken followed Franzika's advice for hyper responders https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=478584 and that brought his levels down. Or my answer to everything cholesterol now is get the CAC score...even the new AHA guidelines suggest using that test more.
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  #1077   ^
Old Mon, Nov-26-18, 09:15
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Mintaka, how did you go about the Feldman protocol? I can think of one way it could be innocently messed up.

During an extended fast cholesterol goes up. Makes sense with the protocol, increased reliance on body fat for energy. Also makes sense from an insulin perspective, higher free fatty acid release from adipose tissue, increased production of VLDL by the liver. All has to do with Feldman's increased fat trafficking stuff.

Okay, now take somebody on a low carb diet. Keep everything the same--have them eat what they're already eating, but add fat. Less energy needs to come from adipose tissue, fat trafficking changes, more reliance on dietary fat. Should get Dave's results.

There's another way to increase fat--you could get more of your calories from fat without increasing calories, or even increase calories but still decrease the proportion of protein and carbohydrate foods, and wind up with lower insulin levels by eating a more ketogenic diet. Which might be fine--it seems to be what works best for me personally both from a maintenance and from an overall non-scale benefits perspective--but decreased insulin might increase release of body fat, increase the sort of fat trafficking you're trying to decrease by eating more fat. I don't know because I've not had it measured, but I suspect my ldl is higher on my current more ketogenic diet than it would be on my previous more traditional Atkins-with-occasional-peanut-binges approach.

I've found Jimmy Moore interesting in this, during his initial one year, measure and report, weigh food, check blood sugar and ketones daily approach where he was losing weight, his ldl cholesterol and particle counts were pretty high. When he started his prolonged fasting for weight gain protocol, everything went down. I think this fits into Dave's idea--the fasting itself would raise cholesterol, but the increased appetite between fasts might look more like Dave's fat overfeeding protocol, and bring the numbers down below where they'd be if Jimmy'd never fasted.

In retrospect, Jimmy's results seem obvious. Take somebody who's eating a weight gain diet--post that year of a ketogenic diet with high accountability, reporting numbers on a regular basis, to himself and the public, Jimmy's ketogenic diet was a weight gain diet. I refuse to call this a failure of the ketogenic diet. The old saw of doing the same things and expecting different results has a corrollary--you shouldn't change a bunch of stuff, call it the same thing, and then say the same thing doesn't work any more. Fasting and then eating a fattening diet, whether you call it ketogenic or not, is probably not going to work. It's not what Dr. Fung and Megan Ramos report doing--they fast people, and all along, they're also trying to get people onto a less insulinogenic diet than they were eating prior to starting a fasting protocol.
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  #1078   ^
Old Wed, Nov-28-18, 08:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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A new podcast collaboration, episode 2 explains what they are planning with Dr. Fung and Megan. 4 episodes so far.

http://www.lowcarbmd.com
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  #1079   ^
Old Wed, Nov-28-18, 10:51
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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Reguarding self testing....that is paying for own testing without doc ordering them......

When I brought my son to UMASS infectious disease specialist for Lymes, she was dogged about determing who had performed labs. I of course ignorant of self testing was confused as to the relavance of that. And responded, the pediatrition. A shirt discusdion followed that these outside testing labs are generally regarded as unreliable. She left me feeling only doctors know best. And left frustrated as money down the drain. Not Lymes. Likely just stress.


Im bring up self testing as maybe we need a thread to evaluate labs, which are good and reliable, and which should be avoided.

As for son that doesnt have Lymes but had daily headaches and periodic fevers, a chance encounter with his tech teacher who sees students all day 5 days a week, suggested limiting screen time. Lol, son is in IT, lives online at school, then repeats at home to get homework done. With eliminating all unnecessary screen time, and school vaca week, the headaches have stopped. Now for the fevers.

Would be interested in knowing about more self testing tests.

Sorry this post us a distant tangent to Fungs work. Both teens are trying to limit grains for a second month.
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  #1080   ^
Old Wed, Nov-28-18, 14:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Isn’t the problem with Lyme Disease with the test itself being unreliable? And tests on some hormones and other types done by naturopathic doctors and chiropractors that are questionable tests.

I am only referring to Direct to Consumer Labs. Here is a thread started about that market.
https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=467301

Direct Labs uses LabCorp or Quest. LabCorp has a large testing/processing facility in Burlington, NC. My blood draws go to the exact same place as if it was taken at a doctor's office. The CBC taken at my oncologist and at the LabCorp blood draw location, are returned with the same lab ranges printed with the same type font. I only use them for standard tests like Vit D, fasting insulin, CBC.
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