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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Oct-12-01, 17:32
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Angry AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!

Got my blood test results this morning. The good news is, my blood sugars are normal (diabetes in the family). The bad news is, my cholesterol is high (arteriosclerosis in the family).

7.72 (That's 298 for our neighbours south of the border). Ideally, it should be below 5.19 (that's 200 for USA'ers).

Well, I know I shouldn't panic yet. Next comes the test to look at the ratio of HDL, LDL, and triglycerides. I know the ratio's more important than total cholesterol, and it could be fine. Also, I suppose it's possible the reading could be a one-off. I had the blood test done right after an hour-long workout - could that be a factor, I wonder?

I shouldn't be upset. I've had pap tests come back looking scary. I've had a mammogram come back looking scary. False alarms.

Oh, BTW, I had the test done before I started my four-day reversal diet, so they are my values after a year of low-carbing. Now I wish I'd had the test done before I started this WOE, then I could see if they've gone up or down.

I suppose I should add that my blood pressure is low-normal (110 over 70, I think). Normal BP, normal blood sugar, my weight's not too high - why the high cholesterol?

I've posted this in my journal, too, in case anyone thinks they're seeing double!

Rachel
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Oct-12-01, 17:56
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,201
 
Plan: LC paleo/ancestral
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default Rachel, I'm on this ...

but my 'puter is trying to crash again.

There are some insights and suggestions around the board .... I'll try to amalgamate them for you. Plus other info.

You're going to live

Do
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Oct-12-01, 18:02
jomil jomil is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 318
 
Plan: modified Dr. A
Stats: 214.5/214.5/150 Male 66 in.
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Cool

Sorry to hear about your cholesterol results.

That was the first concern I had before I went into the LC WOE.

I have Angina and am taking beta blocker to keep my pressure down.

My blood test last October (before starting the LC diet in March this year) showed to be on the high side, 5.74. The optimal is 5.2

I was eating all low fat and low cholesteral foods until March/01.

I will keep you appraised as to the blood test results within a month. This will dictate my future participation of LC WOE.

If your blood pressure is as low as 110/70, I would say that you don't have much to worry about. You have the pressure of a teen- ager

Regards
Joe
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Oct-12-01, 18:11
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
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Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by jomil


If your blood pressure is as low as 110/70, I would say that you don't have much to worry about. You have the pressure of a teen- ager.


Thanks, Joe. I'm working on the BODY of a teenager!

No, wait, that didn't come out right.....

No, seriously, thanks for sharing, Joe. Hope your tests come out well!

And thanks, Doreen. I've done some searching around the board already - after firmly telling myself I would NOT get upset about this, and WOULD do the work I have piled up, I spent the whole day surfing for info! But I know you'll dig up the really really good stuff - you're an angel!
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-01, 15:03
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 37,201
 
Plan: LC paleo/ancestral
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Lightbulb

Rachel, you're quite right to wait and see what the HDL is, and the triglyceride levels. High total cholesterol in and of itself is not an indicator of heart disease or heart disease RISK as far as that goes.

Since you did a search yesterday, then you've likely already read these articles, the links to which have been posted several times in this forum. But, at the risk of being repetitive, I'll put them here anyway..
  • The Cholesterol Myths, by Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD. Especially check out item #2. Blood cholesterol has nothing to do with atherosclerosis. "One of the most surprising facts about cholesterol is that there is no relationship between the blood cholesterol level and the degree of atherosclerosis in the vessels. If a high cholesterol really did promote atherosclerosis, then people with a high cholesterol should evidently be more atherosclerotic than people with a low. But it isn´t so ........."
  • Ravnskov's comments to the New Cholesterol Guidelines, recently published by the National Cholesterol Education program (May 2001) ... there's a link to the guidelines in Ravnskov's article. "It is not true either, that cholesterol has a strong power to predict the risk of a heart attack in men above 65. In the 30 year follow-up of the Framingham population for instance, high cholesterol was not predictive at all after the age of forty-seven, and those whose cholesterol went down had the highest risk of having a heart attack! To cite the Framingham authors: ”For each 1 mg/dl drop of cholesterol there was an 11 % increase in coronary and total mortality.”

    It is not true either, that high cholesterol is a strong, independent predictor for other individuals.

    In most studies of women and of patients who already have had a heart attack, high cholesterol has little predictive power, if any at all.

    In a large study of Canadian men high cholesterol did not predict a heart attack, not even after 12 years, and in Russia, low, not high cholesterol level, is associated with future heart attacks.

    Most interesting is the fact, that in some families with the highest cholesterol levels ever seen in human beings, so-called familial hypercholesterolemia, the individuals do not get a heart attack more often than ordinary people, and they live just as long."
    .
  • THE CHOLESTEROL MYTH, by T.J. Moore. The author goes into a lot of detail about the Framingham study, which is the most often cited in cholesterol vs. heart disease discussions. He points out that the study showed that yes, people with high cholesterol got heart disease. But what usually gets omitted from arguments is that the study showed that people with LOW cholesterol also got heart disease, and at the SAME RATE. " ... Cholesterol, however, is far from being a simple and universal explanation for what causes coronary heart disease. For example, high blood-cholesterol levels generally do not increase the risk of coronary heart disease among women. ...... The link between high blood-cholesterol levels and increased risk of coronary heart disease in both men and women weakened at about age fifty and then disappeared entirely."
  • THE CHOLESTEROL MYTH by Barry Groves, author of Eat Fat, Get Thin! " ... But there are a number of significant points that the cholesterol theory overlooks. For example, there is a marked difference between the build-up found in those with familial hypercholesterolaemia and those with coronary heart disease: hypercholesterolaemia causes large deposits at the mouths of the coronary arteries, often leaving the arteries themselves unblocked, and so does not reproduce the type of obstruction found in coronary heart disease ..... It has also long been known that simple events, such as putting a cuff around the arm prior to taking a blood sample, or fear of the needle, can result in raised cholesterol values. And, even where these are avoided, large fluctuations are known with peak to nadir variations of as much as twenty-three percent. Lastly, cholesterol is only one of the constituents of an atheroma and, if you think about it, cholesterol is so necessary and so widespread in the body, it would have been surprising if it had not been found."

    Page 2 of this article is a very worthwhile read, on the myths of dietary fat and heart disease. Page 3 discusses a few things yer grandma didn't tell you about BRAN, especially wheat bran, and the harm that it can do.

    Ah, but Page 8, A Question of Ethics, sums it up nicely " ... Some will say that we do know the cause of coronary heart disease; it is high cholesterol, or too much fat in our diets, or not enough exercise. Or it could be something else. In 1981, two hundred and forty six 'risk factors' for heart disease were listed. That number is now well over three hundred. These so called risk factors include having English as a mother tongue, having a diagonal crease in the left earlobe, not taking siestas, not eating mackerel, snoring and wearing tight underpants. What a list of this size really tells us is that we have little idea what causes coronary heart disease. And it is certain that if all the 300 plus do play a part, we have no chance of defeating the disease." ...........

    Cholesterol testing
    Imagine it is 2.00 a.m., you are lying in bed when you hear a noise downstairs that you know is caused by a burglar. You know how quickly your heart starts to race. Well, that is how quickly your cholesterol level can rise - and for the same reason. One of the effects of the 'fight or flight' reflex is to raise blood cholesterol. Any form of physical or mental stress has this effect. So if you run to your doctor's, your cholesterol level will be higher than if you walked; if you have been standing it will be higher than if you sat. If you are anxious, or your doctor looks worried, it will be higher. If your blood cholesterol were tested hourly throughout a day, or daily over a month, it would not be unusual to find a wide variation in values.

    Blood cholesterol levels also rise naturally as you get older so that while a reading of 9 mmol/l is high at the age of twenty, it is perfectly normal if you are fifty.

    Cholesterol measurements are not very accurate - less than eighty percent - even when conducted in a laboratory. A survey showed that on the same sample, laboratories could differ by as much as 1.3 mmol/l. When it is tested with a doctor's desktop machine the accuracy will inevitably be lower.

    To put it in perspective, let us assume that you are around thirty years old and your cholesterol level is a perfectly respectable 6.0 mmol/l. You hurry to the surgery and are anxious about the result. This could raise it by twenty-five percent to 7.5. If it is sent to a laboratory giving the high readings it could be raised by a further 1.3. Your perfectly normal 6.0 is now a high 8.8!

    In fact, so many variables affect cholesterol levels that a one-off test is a waste of time, and an unnecessary worry for the patient that can do more harm than good. Bear that in mind if you are subjected to a cholesterol test."
Ok, there's a lot of opinion expressed in that last article, but it's well-researched opinion (that's likely why his website is called Second Opinions ). Some very good reading there too about the perils of vegetarianism as well.

In DANDR, Atkins also discusses cholesterol at length in chapter 15, Good Protection for Your Heart. On pp. 186 - 189, he lists some nutritional supplements you might consider as well.

If you can get your hands on Protein Power Lifeplan, by the Drs. Eades, pub. 2000 ... chapter 4, Cholesterol: The Good, The Bad and the Ugly ... pp 86 - 109, explains it perfectly. And also explains how an increased total cholesterol, combined with a decreased triglyceride level is actually cause for celebration. They differ from Atkins a bit on the use of supplements, especially antioxidants, which they claim are a double-edged sword.

Phew, lots of reading!!! Lots of typing too, I think I'm going to rest for a bit...

Take care of yourself, and don't worry too much. It's like scale phobia ... sometimes the numbers don't tell the whole picture, especially since you've been feeling well and fit otherwise.

{{hugs}}

Doreen
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-01, 16:13
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Default Doreen, you're an angel!!!!



I can't thank you enough - but I'll try - thanks, THANKS, THANKS!!!!! Mmmmwahhh! (kiss)

What a lot of work you've done for me! I've printed out your posting and will be making lots of references to it in the time to come.

You know, it's not the high cholesterol in itself that bothers me so much - it's the risk of being 'medicalized.' I can't stand the idea of someone telling me what to eat, or what medications I 'have to' take. Well, I'm not going to let that happen. IF it's a problem, I'm going to take charge of it myself, if it means home monitoring and 'tweaking' my diet, supplements, etc. in all sorts of ways until I get it right. I'm certainly not going to be put on medication!

The annoying thing is, my doctor doesn't know I'm on Atkins - it's never been an issue, I just see her once a year for my physical and otherwise go my own merry way. Well, I certainly wasn't about to break the news right after a high cholesterol test! NOT the best way to get a sympathetic hearing!

I hate, HATE, HATE screening tests. I've had 'suspicious' pap tests and mammograms that turned out to be false positives, and now this. Every time, I'm upset, anxious, and depressed for days afterward. I'm seriously considering saying 'enough' and not having any more screenings.

Having said that, I've been reading about the link between high cholesterol and low thyroid. If my next test comes back unfavourable, I'm going to ask for a thyroid check - I might ask for it anyway. I'm going to monitor my temperature religiously for the next couple of weeks. I know some days it's very low - around 97 or even below! Maybe that's the reason for often feeling tired and run down, especially in winter?

I wonder if rushing to the lab right after a fairly strenuous morning workout might have increased my readings. For the repeat test, I won't do that again!

So here's the plan of action:

1) Back to low-carb tomorrow, with an emphasis on olive and omega oils, and severely cut back on processed meats (Atkins recommends this for high cholesterol). Try to eat fish one meal per day. Psyllium daily. Look into Atkins recommended supplements for cholesterol; lecithin is one.

2) Bookstore to pick up Atkins's book on supplements, PP Lifestyle Plan, and whatever else looks relevant.

3) Monitor body temperature several times a day.

4) Have my follow-up test in a couple of weeks, NOT immediately after exercising! Bus, don't walk, to the lab!

5) If lab results are not great, talk to my doctor about screening for thyroid.

6) Look into buying a home-testing kit for cholesterol.

Well, that's all I can think of for now. Lots of work to do!

Rachel
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-01, 16:38
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default Re: Doreen, you're an angel!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by r.mines
3) Monitor body temperature several times a day.


Sorry you're having such a rough time of it, Rachel. One question and one suggestion. What was your cholesterol a year ago when it was tested? Has it changed dramatically from then or was it high then as well? The comment is for taking your temp. To get the most accurate reading be sure to do it before you even get out of bed in the morning... first thing.

Nat
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-01, 16:43
jomil jomil is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 318
 
Plan: modified Dr. A
Stats: 214.5/214.5/150 Male 66 in.
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Cool

Congratulations to Doreen on your usual comprehensive and efficient study on Cholesterol. I found it execeptionally educational.

Rachel, please slow down on your concern about medications. I would be really surprised if you received any medication for lowering cholesterol based on that incomplete test and especially with your low blood pressure readings.

Regards
Joe
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-01, 16:49
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Default

Nat, this is the first time I've had my cholesterol measured in about 20 years! I know Atkins recommends testing before starting his eating plan, but I never volunteer for tests - getting the results upsets me too much! (I'm even paranoid about GOOD results! Is it a false negative? Did I get someone else's results by accident? I'm a bit 'Woody Allen-ish' about my health!)

I have high cholesterol in my immediate family, which is why my doctor wanted to have me tested, 20 years ago (different doc - normal results) and now.

As for the temperature thingie ... yes, I'll do it first thing, and then I think also at intervals throughout the day. I bought a thermometer a couple of weeks ago - I never get sick, so I haven't owned one in years! - and it's electronic, so I had to 'test' it. For five days running, my basal (first thing) readings were: 97.1, 97, 97.2, 96.8 (yikes!), 97.6.

I think that's pretty low, don't you? I think it should be around 97.6, though of course there's individual variation, so my lower readings may not mean anything.

Thanks for checking!
Rachel
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-01, 16:52
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by jomil
Rachel, please slow down on your concern about medications. I would be really surprised if you received any medication for lowering cholesterol based on that incomplete test and especially with your low blood pressure readings.


Thanks so much, Joe. I only mention it because my doctor already has! "First the follow-up test...then dietary changes....then medication." I don't think I like what she has planned for me!

So I just have to do it my own way, right?

Rachel
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-01, 17:09
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
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Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by r.mines
For five days running, my basal (first thing) readings were: 97.1, 97, 97.2, 96.8 (yikes!), 97.6.

I think that's pretty low, don't you? I think it should be around 97.6, though of course there's individual variation, so my lower readings may not mean anything.


Yes thats pretty low, Rachel. Having the thyroid checked might be a good bet.

Nat
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-01, 23:09
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,201
 
Plan: LC paleo/ancestral
Stats: 241/188/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Smile

Rachel, the article by Ravnskov ... contains some up-to-date information on cholesterol-lowering drugs. His paper commenting on the New Cholesterol Guidelines, recently published by the National Cholesterol Education program (May 2001) ... has some disturbing and eye-opening facts. You might even want to print out a copy to have handy if your dr. is getting a bit hasty with the prescription pad. Check out the NCEP guidelines too (the link is in the article) ... they've declared abnormal cholesterol at such a low level, that 40% of North Americans are walking around with their arteries ready to clog at any moment ... and that includes children..

On monitoring basal body temp ... yes, first thing in the morning before rising .. is the generally accepted time. If you want to monitor trends during the day .. here's what to look for

- first thing in the morning the temp will be lowest
- late afternoon is when it normally peaks at its highest
- then drops back down again into the evening.

How it could be significant for thyroid ... if your afternoon temps are consistently low, or not increased at all from the early a.m. reading ... especially if you often feel chilled or have cold hands & feet that occur late afternoon.

Doreen
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, Oct-14-01, 08:21
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by doreen T
How it could be significant for thyroid ... if your afternoon temps are consistently low, or not increased at all from the early a.m. reading ... especially if you often feel chilled or have cold hands & feet that occur late afternoon.


Wow, Doreen, you just described me in detail prior to LC. I am having my thyroid retested in a few weeks, I think i'll start taking the morning and afternoon temps now for reference. Thx

Nat
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Oct-14-01, 09:14
r.mines's Avatar
r.mines r.mines is offline
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Posts: 1,383
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 162/124/120 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Vancouver,BC
Default temps

Yes, thanks, Doreen. I'll check regularly, morning, late afternoon (3-4ish) and evening for a couple of weeks at least.

Rachel
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Oct-25-01, 12:54
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
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Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Just curious, how is the temp monitoring going, Rachel? I bought a thermometer this afternoon to start my own little study and was a bit shocked when my temp came out as 97.1 Of course this doesnt mean much as I have no waking temp yet to compare it to. Have you noticed any trends yet?

Nat
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