Thanks, just old concepts with new names!

Jillian is probably losing clients in droves. Instead of starving and exercising 8 hrs a day they are eating satiating fats with minimal exercise and feeling great.

I think you're right. I'm not a big celebrity watcher and probably couldn't have picked Jillian Michaels out of a line up before all this, but all of a sudden, everywhere I go I hear people talking about what she's said about keto. It does seem people are regarding what she's said with suspicion. Too many people know someone who's lost a boatload of weight on keto.

I think that was the point - - PUBLICITY

Yeah, but I think it could be backfiring on her. Every time I hear somebody talking about what she's said - at the grocery store, at my kids' sporting events, at the dentist, etc. - somebody chimes in with something along the lines of, "Yeah, but that keto works! My brother in law's lost 60 pounds and now he's got my father in law doing it too..." I've never joined in any of these conversations, although truth be told, I probably would if there were no one else around to give some keto testimony.

I've been on "keto" boards where people gave the difference between Atkins and Keto as being that Atkins was for overweight, middle-aged people while Keto was for getting ripped. But where their definition of "keto" was indistinguishable from Atkins. A good way for kids who made fun of the diet their Mom was on to pretend she wasn't right all along when they do it themselves.

None of which applies when somebody like WereBear is actually targeting a higher ketone level than with her previous low carb diet of course.

I was in the ER last night (never mind) and one of the male nurses there said he'd lost from 480 to 330 on Keto (so far). It is rare to run into any group of people now where at least one is not 'doing keto'.

Keto - less than 20 carbs
Atkins induction is the same carb level but has some food type restrictions
Keto is not just <=20 carbs but is also ~80% fat. Atkins specs high fat but doesn't have a hard number on it I think... wow it's been so long I realize I don't remember but fortunately Teaser is likely to remember for all of us and can correct this if wrong.

VLC very low carb is usually <=30-35 carbs a day but according to their website they now say <=20% of overall diet or <=100 carbs per day. I suppose that is the perspective of the "overall" Atkins plan which was up to that as well -- once weight had normalized and IF that didn't cause weight gain.

I personally rate keto as <21, LC as <46, MC as <101, MHC as <176, and everything over that HC. I have seen a variety of experts classify these categories in various ways. It's not written on a tablet on a mountain anywhere.

But I think each dietary plan even when they have a certain carb count, have other elements that are fairly important in them (like keto's fat % makes a difference, it's not just about carbs).



So the difference between, say, Atkins induction and keto might also be, for example, that keto is just keto. There is nothing inherent in it that says, "and as soon as you are adapted, you gradually add in foods and raise your carb level to what works for you" which was the Atkins approach. Keto is more like, you just eat 20 carbs or less until you die, unless you go "off keto."

PJ

By the 20 grams or less rule, Atkins is "Keto" for me--because climbing the ladder never works for me, so even before going to a higher fat ratio keto, Atkins maintenance looks an awful lot like induction for me.

How fatty Atkins is--yeah, sort of depends, you can read the text and end up fairly high fat or fairly high protein. To me a high fat ratio is within the Atkins plan--since protein and fat were unrestricted on the basic plan, you could end up anywhere from a more luxurious version of a protein sparing modified fast to something approaching a 3:1 fat to protein plus carbs ratio and still be doing Atkins. First time I did Induction, I really took his emphasis on fat to heart, and I think the more drastic hormonal changes that that induced are probably why I had troublesome electrolyte issues. Turns out maybe that really was the best approach for me, but maybe I should have eased into it a bit more slowly.

I wonder what definition of keto some people who publish keto recipes use. I keep coming across keto recipes that are 20g or more per serving; unless I've eaten nothing else, they would take me over my daily limit.

After reading a number of high-carb keto recipes, I decided it wasn't for me - I'll stick to my ordinary low carb.

I just read an article in Men’s Health who said it was less that fifty... so I don’t think anyone polices these terms.

I’m putting Keto in my signature because I’m doing high fat, moderate protein, and really low carbs. Which means: not vegetables. Olives and cucumbers are fruits!

Yeah, if we use "ordinary english" then keto is any level of any nutrient within which your body is able to maintain and even light ketogenic state. And that's going to vary for every body. And maybe even by the week or day. Which is pretty complicated.

I actually considered the so-called "zero carb" people to be the keto because they were not zero carb at all, they were usually around 8-15 or so -- because they used garlic and spices and such even if they ate almost nothing but meat. But then the term 'keto' came around, not meaning "ketogenic" (to me that was about <35 or <30 carbs, whatever protein power book had originally dictated) but less than 20. Oh well.

*

Bonnie, people who publish recipes with too many carbs and call them keto are generally NOT KETO. They are usually just people who want the search engine and cross-linking benefits of the word 'keto' in the description. Nobody who eats keto is going to consider a 20 carb single-meal to be a keto meal. Even if you do eat intermittant fasting one meal a day, it needs to be a BIG meal, or you'd never get enough nutrients, which means for most recipes that would be 2-4 servings, not 1. And it wouldn't be a side dish for sure.

What's I've learned about keto recipes online is:

1. Find someone that makes food you can eat and do follow them.

One example I like: ketoconnect.net or their youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzRYivTpUQ0r2qPPjfLoQiA/videos

Most these folks who do social media keto as their living will eventually hand you their version of every popular recipe so the various new ideas anywhere on the internet will eventually turn up in your menu too. :-)

2. When you find someone with truly great recipes but who uses a base you cannot eat, it's nothing but disappointment. Sadly, pinterest gluten-free keto is nothing but almond meal.

Example: https://www.gnom-gnom.com/ if you can eat nut/seed meal, then this is the site to go to, because nearly ALL their recipes are based on a combination of almond meal and coconut meal, and they have a huge and fantastic list of them. Sadly I can't eat nut/seed meals anymore (intestinal misery) which made nearly their whole site pointless for me.

Keto Connect began that way, but Megha has had issues with almond meal as well so they shifted to doing more with coconut meal and protein powder.

I think both are gluten free. Gnom is paleo, Connect is not.

3. There are some fun youtube channels of keto cooks. A couple I like:

Headbanger's Kitchen
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ...FVp0wiQWQedaShw
I should warn you that he is really, really into "death metal" music, plays guitar and sings, and so there's often clips of that in there. Also, death metal is stuffed with "satanic references" but humorously, he's actually an Atheist, it is all just a "stylistic" thing. So if that sort of stuff offends you, you can avoid it, but he has some great recipes and he's really the go-to guy for great keto asian recipes at this point I think.

(The back of my head tells me I am forgetting someone key in that category right now. A woman. Maybe someone will remind me.)

Highfalutin' Low Carb
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHhMFg6MNHc-VeqRHBghIJA/videos
This guy takes other people's recipes from around the web, makes them and "compares them" which is a very cool idea. And he generally does tell you when he thinks it tastes kinda bad, or too thin or bland or whatever.

Keto for Real Life People
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf...bfuU1Bbg/videos
Her recipes vary and I can't eat all of them but I rather like her. She's just a laid back having a chat in the kitchen sort.

PJ

I tend to lump all the low-carb diets together. The differences between them are in a few details. Keto is slightly more different in that it does limit protein. The last time that I calculated the macro content of what I eat I came up with 2% carbs, 18% protein, and 80% fat. That ratio seems to work well for me as I enjoy the foods that I consume. I don't keep track of calories.

I am averaging 5/25/75 in my first week. One thing I am interested in is its power to banish cravings. I would eat a meat, veg meal with carefully measured carb levels and still prowl the kitchen. The satiety factor here has been impressive so far.

Also, my new Carb Manager app is AWESOME. Gives you a pie chart at every turn for quick visual info of a food or a day’s consumption.

I love the scanner (uses the picture function) which grabs a bar code and finds the food in their massive database. One look and I know if it’s feasible, but they also give the food a letter grade on how Ketogenic it is.

That is how I eat and the satiety factor is what keeps it sustainable.

1. What do you guys do to get 5% extra into 100% of your day? :-)

2. Where do you count any fiber/SA carbs?

Just curious since I ponder this myself when tweaking macros.

PJ