As a zero carb or carnivore diet has gained popularity and articles about its proponents highlight the benefits , https://www.dietdoctor.com/?s=Carnivore read the rebuttals from RDs to see why this thread still belongs in the war zone. Recent example from Self: https://www.self.com/story/im-a-reg...-carnivore-diet

If you want the pro side, that JustMeat.co page is an extensive round-up of the science. The MeatHeals About page has the active FB groups, and here we try to be balanced and share experiences without getting the angry push-back that Marvin, the OP, saw in 2016. Dr Shawn Baker makes a good new "face" for the diet...he is chill about the diet, the results, the science...here's a website, all carnivore works for me and many others, but if you want to add some veg and be mostly carnivore, whatever works.

I did not see any rebuttals in the links, still learning this system. very complex with all the listings. I notice you don't mention Bear as he got a ton of activitity when he posted well before that RD mention. I know how bad those folks got way back in 2006. It took me 3 days to read everything.

I learned a lot from that thread both from people with issues not unlike mine. and naturally from the Bear himself. I struggle with an electrolyte balance, always did with 2 years of keto. I think some of my issues are from allergy flare up and repairing the damage with single food diet until things die down and settle.

first couple weeks on exclusive just beef. though I tested eggs again today. Minor flare, so on occassion I may be able to have them.

I am on other facebook pages for carnivore and thought there may be more info on here I could also research.


I have issues with histamines that DOA does not help and I have always had issues with veggies. I can't even handle spices right now after the flare up. Messed myself up trying to eat healthy new foods, ended up overloading my system and here I am. the healthy new foods turned out to be items that I had super bad reactions to.


I am monitored by a doctor and we did great volumes of testing and ultrasounds to ensure all my body functions are normal and my internal organs are functional and not showing damage.

Esmée La Fleur, also helped me get started on avoiding the histamines, but like her I have reactions to almost every food right now.

there are way too many people that have food sensitivities and allergies these days for anyone to claim all or most veggies or non meat products are safe.

thank you for the links to diet doctor I will read their articles too, they may have some updated studies or info to look at.

I looked for RD, RDs and the search option does not find him.

It goes to reason that traditionally trained RDs would find a carnivore diet a threat to their livelihood. Making claims that it lacks scientific basis simply places it in the same category as the Food Pyramid, MyPlate, and the Dietary Guidelines for Americans. Great company that has laid the foundation for the alarming deterioration of human health since the late 1970s. Science? Why start now? I do better with a carnivore approach with few vegetables and zero fruit. That's my science.

By the way, RD is Registered Dietician.

Thanks Rob, Registered Dietitians (RD)are having a fit over carnivore, bad enough they have had to push back on Ketogenic Diets, but they bring out the knives for carnivore (as well they should, use knives to eat some meat instead of writing smack )

baskington, For all the new science and even Bear's forum archives, it is all posted at http://justmeat.co

All the Bear's writings, and under reddit, the similarities and differences between Bear's diet and Charles Washington/ZIOH guidelines. https://www.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/wiki/faq

Added to those original plans, are all the ZC versions followed by Hogan, Peterson, etc.
The MeatHeals about page http://meatheals.com/about/ and the JustMeat science page has Everything. If you find more Zero Carb resources, let us know.

1. Justmeat is an amazing resource, tries to keep up to date, but there are new FB pages popping up all the time.
2. The regular search box is disabled here...use the Advanced Search Box, but this thread is the best resource on this forum.

Bears comments are here too, that is where I was reading them from originally. forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=287013&page=166&pp=15

Thank you for the links.

I'm eating carnivore right now, depending on who you talk to. Plant free except for coffee, zero carb except for heavy cream. I'm pretty happy to have this relatively lively thread versus a subforum. We have a whole forum for paleo, but lately, we get more posts on this thread than we get in that whole forum.

teaser, glad that you are trying it, hope that you will share updates about any benefits you find from this versus your keto diet. I'm with you...I will never give up coffee. I have given up alcohol for a while, but then the Peterson daughter includes vodka. Salt, pepper, spices ... still have those. Last night I made a crock-pot chuck roast and had a few of the vegetables that were in it, so not perfect yet anyway. I do like that reddit comparision, even the original followers of Bear made adjustments for personal tastes..

I would like to see an active zero carb section, assuming there is enough interest. I have tried it a couple times but never got too far without gaining weight. I just don't seem to get full on meat without over eating. That seems to be the opposite of what most peoples experience, which is one reason I would like to read more posts on the subject. Maybe I need to give it more time.

you can lose weight on carnivore so question to you is what do you eat besides just meat?? do you get enough fat?? if you can not fill yourself sometimes it is as simple as not having enough fat on your meat. sometimes you have other foods which are impeding your weight loss. it happened to me on keto. I have food sensitivities so until I cut those out I could not go any further then my previous weight loss.

I look at it as more plunging deeper into keto versus being um versus keto. Not measuring, but the effects seem to be pretty much what I had with a keto that contained plants, but more consistent. I upped my protein intake slightly, but only slightly--talking 70-80 grams of protein versus 60-70. I'm generally a creature of habit, so you can take those intakes without a grain of salt, intake doesn't vary by much. Carbs went down by 5 to 10 grams. Weight dropped by ten pounds over several months, and is fairly stable. I started an active full-time job in that time, before that I was scraping by (slowly sinking) on occasional handy-man type stuff with my Dad. So I'm not the best experiment, too much stuff changed. Or I'm an example of how a high fat ratio ketogenic carnivore diet can support high activity levels and regular workouts without causing loss of lean mass. One of those.

Interesting that you upped your protein but not by much while losing some plant carbs. Overall, how do you feel in terms of mood, energy? Losing the weight makes sense. Do you ever plan to increase your protein beyond 70-80 grams? I'm assuming that these changes have also reduced your daily calorie consumption as well.

I seem to be moving more toward a predominantly carnivore approach, and I usually favor cruciferous vegetables in a limited quantity. Usually, with my two meals per day, one meal will be mostly protein, the other will be a mix with a small amount (one serving size) of broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, or cabbage. Occasionally, I'll eat a salad of mostly lettuce greens, but not so much. I've noticed a slow reduction in weight and feel good in my workouts and exercise. As mentioned in other posts, I've increased my protein with no impact on blood BHB levels.

You're probably assuming wrong. But again, I'm more active than I was. On a typical work day, I'm up to about 10 ounces of heavy cream a day and four ounces of butter. Four large eggs and 7 ounces (raw) of pork chops. That puts me at 2400 calories a day. The most common deviation is a medium to large chicken leg in place of the pork chops, some days.e

Or maybe not wrong--on the higher protein keto everybody swears by these days, I tend to binge more. It's hard to say how much that contributes to average calorie intake.

First time I tried a high ratio, 4:1 ketogenic ratio diet, it was more of a pork rinds and whipped cream sort of an affair. I wasn't working regularly, but maintenance seemed to be somewhere in the 2400 calorie range then as well, if I remember correctly. That was after losing down to about 154 pounds on an intentionally higher protein intake. The higher protein diet got me leaner, and resulted in a problem with binges that went away once I went to the high ratio ketogenic diet. Both lower fat/higher protein leading to being leaner but with binges, and keto getting rid of the binges have been repeated enough times that I don't doubt causation in me personally, though I don't jump to the conclusion that this is how things will work for everybody.

Last time I tried I went two weeks eating bacon & eggs for breakfast, bacon cheeseburger patty for lunch and roast beef for dinner. I would also add a coffee with butter between lunch and dinner. and after dinner. Adding fat has not been the magic bullet for me as is usually suggested. I have found that a salad along with meat helps fill me up, but after about a year at my goal weight, even that doesn't seem to help. I am starting to think that my body is rebelling against being at this weight. While I don't want to be 230 lbs again, it may be time to consider if 165 lbs or 170 lbs might be a better weight for me. I seem to creep up to that weight when not counting calories, so maybe that is just a more natural weight for me vs a number from a bmi calculator.

dcc0455, I'm fighting the battle you just described. I've tried everything I know, but continue to gain. Kinda tired of fighting my own body, so I'm taking a bit of a break, adding exercise to build muscle.

bluesinger, Thanks for the reply. Exercise is one thing I have been lax about.