~ JoanD'Arc and
~NancyLC and
~LittleZu and
~Everyone

Joan was right. It appears that her observation that the more water you drink, the lower the reading on the Ketostix is THE ANSWER I was looking for. I experimented with that and found that when I drink less water, the deeper pink readings ARE there, and they are higher.

I discovered this because I woke up and PANICKED yesterday after testing. The readings were suddenly back down in the "early trace" colors again . Was Wednesday's jubilation to be so short-lived? Had I lost all my momentum? Were we wrong about Jell-O being the culprit? Initially, I had not been eating anything but meat, eggs, and Jell-O. After eliminating Jell-O, the only thing it could possibly be was was one of my meds. I did not want to give those up.

Spent about 2 hours writing a memo to this group. (The first one got eaten by computer gremlins, so I had to rewrite it. And edit. Etc.) By the time I finished, I had to "go" again, so I tested again and -- Voilà! Now I'm in the pink again. Whew! What a relief.

The reason seems to have been that I did not drink anything between the time I woke up and finished writing the memo. This gave my bod two hours to produce more urine -- and this time it was more concentrated than it had been for the first reading of the day. Now, suddenly, the readings were back in the pink again. So to speak.

So, I never posted yesterday's long, frightened email to you all. In that tortured confession, I was pondering which "med" I might end up giving up. And how I would continue to eat only meats, fish, and eggs and stop all meds until I could figure out which one was causing the problem.

Luckily, I also realized yesterday, that it just "might" be, as Joan had said, the concentration of ketones in a small amount of fluid. Now, I see that she is right. At least in part.

The Sugar-Free Jell-O might NOT have been a factor at all (although, I admit that I was guzzling that stuff! Putting it in almost every glass of water, thinking it had no calories, hence, no carbs)

---
So, it also sounds as though you guys are saying that ketones do tend to build up in your bloodstream the more you practice this eating style?
RIGHT??

As long as they provide me with a way to determine whether I am "in" or "out" of ketosis and whether I have "room" to eat various low-carb veggies, such as lettuce, kale, spinach, etc., that's fine.

But I am worried once again. Have I hit a plateau so soon?

Haven't lost an ounce for several days. An eating plan like this will be worth it if it works to take off pounds. But if I cannot lose on it, and am going to stay fat, then why bother?

I realize people do hit plateaus on various eating plans. But I was not ready to hit one after only 9 days. The reason I chose this method is that no other way of eating seemed to be working for me -- in spite of how much exercise I had been doing.

Hopefully, the scales will show some progress tomorrow.

~Aradasky: It probably IS time to move out of the "Hi, I'm New" section and into another forum area. Maybe I'll open a thread in the chat section.

I will let everyone know if I am going to do that. Maybe tomorrow.
I hope everyone will come along with me if I do that.

Thanks, Everyone!

A journal will do exactly what you are doing here, but you can go back and edit the first page. Some of us use that page to keep things that we want to find again, like recipes and ideas.
You can ask questions individually in other sections, or in your journal and use a headline to bring attention to it. As you go to other journals to read, you will find everything under the sun is discussed here, not just food and what we eat. Mainly we are here to help each other get through problems. Food or other problems.

You read and comment in others journals and they come and comment in yours.

If you are really going to make this a way of life, you will use your journal to maintain and gain strength as you go along. Those who have maintained for years, and are still journaling, have much to share, and we( I consider myself a newbie at journaling one year here) have much to learn.

Now, Ketosis. Yes, water does cause it to be less pink, however the longer you are on LC the less fat you have to use for energy and the better your body gets at using the ketones for energy. You will read even less pink, then too. Later, your body will start making different ketones that are not dumped into the urine and will not be traceable there. That is very good.

Some people do not need to be in ketosis to lose weight. I like it because I do not get hungry most days on it. That is the BIG advantage for me. Not being hungry.

Do not stress over the strips.

If you are tracking your carbs and are under 100 net carbs a day, you are probably in ketosis. 20 net carbs a day in the beginning teaches your body to use them.

Hi - I noticed you said you werent exercising , you do know that your not getting the maximum benefits of keto dieting unless you exercise , plus the health benefits of weekly exercise . This diet was originally designed for epileptics and diabetics , but later adopted for athletes and bodybuilders like myself . Exercise + Keto = better results ......~Eric

This whole thread is pretty much how your journal would read. You still should interact on the rest of the site, but those who find an affinity for each other on the forum threads thed to visit each other's journals to interact on a more personal and less public level.

If you look at the bottom of most people's posts, to the left of the quote button you will see a journal button. Click mine! My journal is slow right now because I just recently came back from a three year hiatus, and most of my old friends have outgrown the forums, but if you page back a few pages you'll see what I mean.

Edit: I'm a little late on posting this, I see! LOL Arlene said it right, too, we're around in journals to help each other in all aspects.

Also about not losing weight for a little bit- invest in a tape measure. Measure your tummy, arms, thighs, etc. For me, the scale will not move for days, but the tape measure will show me loss! I tend to lose weight for a few days, then stall on the scale, but when I measure I will see loss on the tape measure.

Your food choices are great however you are not getting enough good fat. Olive oil, coconut oil, butter heavy cream. No half and half. That has sugar. Check carbs daily. Then
check ketones. If your still not in ketosis, keep dropping your cargbs. I need to stay under 25 grams to be in ketosis, but once your their its awesome. The bummer part is you must must watch your sugar annd carbs.

Thank you!

Now that you know you're in, don't worry about it so much. It's easier to stay in that it is to get in. Eat your vegetables now. I find I can eat lots as long as they are lo carb and high fiber. You need them to stay regular.

Other people have suggested eating more fat and less protein for stalls. I've also heard of eating only fish, spinach, and tea with lemon for a day.

You can ask the moderator to make this thread your journal. They did that for me.

trying to delete this duplicate entry

This is the fourth time I've tried to answer all you guys. I've spent all morning writing answers and hitting some key and watching them disappear. If any of you know which key it is that does that, please tell me so that I can be sure not to hit it. I'm on a MacBook Pro.

I had written long sequences for all of you, but, on this fourth attempt, need to be brief now so I can get on with my day.

It is worth it, though.

Thank you:

JoanD'Arc f for suggesting I ask the moderator to turn this whole thread into a journal.

LittleZu -- For the encouragement and insights on doing a journal. And the suggestion about the tape measure. I am far too big right now to dare looking at a tape measure. At least I am looking at the scales. I could not do that for the longest time!

Aradasky -- I probably will obsess until I feel more comfortable and know how much room there is to play with before getting kicked out of ketosis. I definitely need to read all those books you've suggested. I still don't really know my way around this site. So consumed with pressing projects and extra seasonal jobs. More on some of these things when this turns into a journal. If webmaster doesn't help with that, as per Joan D'Arc's suggestion, I will investigate how to do it myself. Meanwhile, I still have to get those books you recommended. My aim is to do it as soon as I finish answering you all, but this document keeps crashing, and that puts me behind again.

Eric -- Nice to see a new face. Thanks for joining in. Normally I do exercise. At the moment, my cardio of choice is rollerblading. But a whole month of rain here, combined with houseguests, and then depression, broke the habit for a while. Usually I go from 8 to 12 miles. In the past, I've done running, biking, fast walking, dancing, stationery bike, some core stuff, some free weights, and hot yoga, which I love. There are various physical (and situational) reasons why many of those aren't practical right now. I plan to get rid of the obstacles and get back to some of them. I hope to talk more on this topic later. I had written a much more detailed reply, but now, after having lost it three times, this must be brief. When this goes into journal form, I will elaborate. Surprised Thanks for your suggestions. When I started this way of eating, getting into ketosis and shifting my way of eating was such a startling endeavor, that I wanted to keep the variables down and keep things simple until I got started. I was afraid I'd be way too hungry and temptation would be way too great (and I might fall off of ketosis if I gave in). I wanted to make sure I could get into ketosis and stay there before complicating things by getting hungry. Also, after I do extensive exercising, then often, at the outset, I need a nap in the afternoon. I HATE THAT!!!!! But, it seems to take something out of me. So, when I invest in exercising like that, I have to have time to take four hours out of the day. And I cannot afford to do that. (Four hours = putting on the rollerblade clothes/blades. Driving to the causeway where I skate, and skating, coming home and taking a shower. And then, possibly also napping.) Big, big time loss!

JoanD'Arc -- Thanks again for the suggestions about fats, spinach, eggs, lemon, etc. Doesn't lemon have some sugar?

Massage411 -- Half-and-half has sugar? Not on my carton. I think you mean that some dairy products, like milk (and half-and-half is part milk, and that milk has sugars in it. (As differentiated from a manufacturer adding table sugar to a recipe). Same difference, I suppose. Lactose, maltose, dextrose, sucrose -- all sugars. Maybe it doesn't matter if it's an inherent sugar or an added sugar.

Cream fats and butter fats scare me. I know that Atkins says they do not cause high cholesterol if you're following his diet. But the calories!!!! I know I'm not supposed to worry about calories on this way of eating. But I'm so brainwashed AGAINST calories that it is really hard to believe, hard to accept, AND TRIPLY HARD TO RISK eating that many fat calories. Very difficult to believe that eating fats (which are so delicious) would allow me, or help me, to lose. I am quite leery of this.

In fact,

Joan -- I'm worried, too, that if I do as you say, and "eat my veggies," I'll rack up too many carbs. I know that lettuce, spinach, kale, string beans, etc. don't have many carbs. But I'm really afraid to eat them because I worry they'll cause me to fall out of ketosis again. Part of my problem getting into ketosis in the beginning was that I pigged out on foods I thought I could eat, such as sugar-free Jell-O. I devoured Jell-O, box by box. I did not think it had carbs in it. The box said it had ZERO carbs. But, as long as I was gorging on sugar-free Jell-O, I couldn't get into any convincing level of Ketosis. Zucchini has 2 grams of carbs per half cup. I could eat 1.5 cups of zucchini right now, if I allowed myself to do it!

Plus butter.

It is really difficult for me to believe I could eat all that and not gain weight. Or not halt the ketosis.

Scared to death of that!

I know that we decided it was drinking so much liquid that was diluting the color on the Ketosticks, and preventing me from seeing that I really WAS, in fact, in ketosis.

But, I still don't know, 100% for sure, or feel comfortable RULING OUT the maltodextrin carbs in the supposedly carb-free sugar-free Jell-O. And I am transferring this uncertainty over to vegetables, too. Which DO have carbs in them.

Very scared!!!!

Maybe it just took my system more time than most to adapt.

All these factors might enter in: The maltodextrose of the Jell-O, small amounts of mannitol and sorbitol that were in another food I was eating, lots of fluid intake.

The most important thing I have learned so far -- and I credit the near no-carb method with this -- is that I can avoid eating incorrectly I have the power to do that. It is nice to be able to snack, but snack on beef jerky instead of dried apricots, cookies, crackers, and nuts.

So, as soon as my new journal is set up, I will let you know and hope to see you all there.

Down another 1.6 pounds! Hooray!

Thank you, again!!

P.S. I'm still off the Prilosec (omeprazole) and so far haven't relapsed into a bad case of Gerd again. So, the Prilosec might have had something to do with it, too. I won't know unless I start taking it again. I might do that, though, since the doctor did prescribe it and I am to stay on it until I see her again. But not until I am SURE that I am going to stay in Ketosis and can afford to experiment with it.

Hi Anne!

A belated welcome to the board from me.

You wrote
I could not use a tape measure when I started Atkineering as the dressmakers ones only go up so far and I could not get one long enough to measure my hips!
Someone on a support board suggested I get hold of some pretty ribbon and use it to measure around waist, hips, bust, thighs as well as wrists, ankles and neck. I just held a long length around my body at each measuring point and cut it where it joins, so I had several lengths that represent the "circumference" of each body part.

Write on each which measurement it is (bust, waist, etc) and tuck them away for a week or more.

Then get them out now and again and see if they fit snugly or loosely or even if the ends now overlap. Before too long you will see that they all are starting to overlap and depending on how much fat you need to lose you might even see some lengths overlap by several inches!!

Doing it this way means you need never know your actual measurements if that upsets you, but you will be able to see the inches gradually drop, and even be able to keep count of how many inches you are losing!

f you are on a Mac, create a word doc for your long answers and then cut and paste. I have not had any trouble, on computer or ipad, however, my LONG posts are cut and paste.

LOVE the ribbon idea!

I also love the ribbon idea! No pressure of numbers, just the promise of progress! Wish there was a way to do the same with the scale!

Looking forward to your journal, Malibanne! I'll be sticking around to support you any way I can!

Edit: Oh, and congrats on another 1.6 pounds! I had a whoosh myself this morning and down 2 pounds from yesterday!

The following is a list that I quickly googled, copied, and pasted. Notice that they generalized all items on the list as having the same amount of carbs per serving. I'm sure there is lots of 'more or less' on that list. For instance, anything that is a squash, legume, or tomato is going to be higher. Lettuces will be lower.

That being said, also notice that the fiber count is from 1-4g per 5 carb serving. The fiber nearly equals the carbs. It's called 'net carbs' when you subtract the fiber. I don't play that game when it comes to tortillas or protein bars, but when it comes to veggies, go for it. Even if you have 4 servings a day, you're still around only 20 carbs in vegetables for the day, without subtracting the fiber. You can handle that.

Others, I'm not an expert on this, just personal experience, feel free to add or suggest.

Non-starchy vegetables
Nutrition Facts
One serving: 1⁄2 cup cooked vegetables or 1 cup raw vegetables
Total Carbohydrates: 5g (dietary fiber 1-4g)
Protein: 2g
 Alfalfa sprouts
 Artichoke
 Artichoke hearts
 Asparagus
 Beans: Italian, green, yellow, wax
 Bean sprouts
 Broccoli
 Brussels sprouts
 Cabbage
 Carrots
 Cauliflower
 Celery
 Chicory
 Chinese cabbage
 Cucumber
 Eggplant
 Green onions or scallions
 Greens: beet, collard, dandelion, kale, mustard, turnip
 Jicama
 Kohlrabi
 Leeks
 Lettuce: endive, escarole, leaf, Romaine, iceberg
 Mixed vegetables, no corn or peas
 Mushrooms
 Okra
 Onions
 Parsley
 Peppers, all varieties
 Radishes
 Rhubarb, fresh
 Rutabaga
 Sauerkraut
 Snow peas or pea pods
 Spinach
 Summer squash
 Swiss chard
 Tomato, raw
 Tomato paste
 Turnips
 Vegetable juice cocktail
 Water chestnuts
 Watercress
 Zucchini

You are beautiful! What a wonderful idea!!

Now I can do this!

I can face what I could not face before.

Without having to stare it down and have it smack me in the face!


Oh! I love this. Thank you so much for helping me do this!

You know, each day I balk, even, a little bit, about coming here to look and see if there are any responses.

I never think there will be. I am assuming I will be fine, and I can just go forward with my day without thinking about my eating plan, or any specific challenges. Just doing what I have been doing. Making no waves this day. No ripples in the water.

And then--SPLASH! Right into the water I go.

Look! All these people have written with reponses.

This is magic!!!!

Can I keep up with you??

I am challenged to do more. To more forward.

THIS IS WONDERFUL!

Thank you so much.

Wow. This is generating such energy for me!

~ Aradasky -- Thank you for the cut-and-paste suggestion. I, myself, had been wondering if that would work. Apparently so.

For some reason, right now, though, I have been having problems with MS Word. And yes, I am on a MacBook Pro. I do not know why I can't save any Word Documents right now. This has never happened before. I will need to take my computer to the Apple Store Genius Bar to be fixed, soon -- one more time before my Applecare runs out. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I installed Mountain Lion. But I will try it anyway.

I did order the Atkins book for our place here in the Boston area. I still have to order Phinney and Volek's book. I think I'm stalling, subconsciously, because I'm afraid of holiday reading and activity overload. And it is one more charge on the credit card here at Holiday time. But it sounds very good and I have not forgotten. I am so glad you are answering me and staying here. . . you push me forward! This is an enormous help.

Gawd, I love you all here!!!

~Joan D'Arc -- Thank you for the list of foods and their corresponding fiber counts. I had my first actual non-protein food last night. I was feeling that the Ketosticks readings finally were strong enough that I could risk trying a carb. So, I ate about 3/4 cup of cooked baby kale.

This morning, results were back in the trace levels -- not small approaching moderate.

When the color gets that low, I get scared I'll fall out of ketosis. But I also had drunk quite a lot of liquid before I went to sleep. So, maybe there was some dilution going on.

I'll test again soon, and hopefully be back in the deep pinks again.

~ LittleZu -- Congratulations for the big drop! Two pounds in one day! That is so impressive! What are you doing besides this eating plan to account for that? That could never happen to me. At my advanced age, my metabolism is way too slow. Thank you, also, for the promise to stay with me!

So, now to find a way to get this Journal up and going!

You all made my day!!!

Thanks, Malibanne! I'm really not sure why the two pound drop yesterday, but I am not complaining! I tend to not lose anything for around a week, then drop a pound or two. From what I read on the forums that's pretty common.