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  #16   ^
Old Wed, Jul-31-19, 02:14
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 22,488
 
Plan: LCHF/IF
Stats: 217/182/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: UK
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Food industry scores a legal win against sugar tax in Spain

A decree passed by the regional government of Catalan that introduced a tax on sugary drinks was declared null and void.

https://iegpolicy.agribusinessintel...ar-tax-in-Spain
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  #17   ^
Old Thu, Aug-01-19, 07:08
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,975
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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I still say sugar is a processed drug which is addictive, and the tobacco model is instructive.

It causes clear and demonstrable harm, but we can't go all Prohibition on it either. So the same approach as alcohol, tobacco, and firearms is needed. Maybe we can change the ATF to ATFS.

But then, I write science fiction.
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  #18   ^
Old Thu, Aug-01-19, 08:17
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,122
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I've posted on this topic regarding the influence of the price elasticity of demand having a large influence on the demand for consumption of goods. It's truly basic economics. When a substance is addictive, and I firmly place tobacco and sugar in this category, the demand is very inelastic, meaning that addicted consumers are not price sensitive. It's been proven that the dramatically reduced use of tobacco since the 60s is a result of the fear of death rather than the taxes that have been levied on the substance. When people finally had access to factual information, the consequences scared them witless. I know this directly from growing up in the 50s/60s, my mother smoked, and when the findings about cancer links were confirmed in the 60s, she quit tobacco. Many others did the same over a period of time, as they became convinced about the health risks.

It will be the same dynamic for sugar. What will discourage the use of sugar are the direct findings linking sugar to poor health and the many diseases of metabolic syndrome including insulin resistance. Here are a couple pieces of information discussing elasticity of demand and why addictive substances for addicts are not price sensitive and why taxes are a waste of time for changing behavior. Certainly, taxes will derive revenue for the government, but that additional revenue is not always earmarked for subsidizing health treatments for the very addicts for whom the taxes are intended to "discourage" use of the substances. It's a shell game that the politicians play to give the voters the "sensation" of them taking action.

I'm using the term addiction because sugar lights up the dopamine receptors in the brain. The following article identifies factors that influence price elasticity:
Quote:
The ten factors are: 1. The Availability of Substitutes 2. Definition of the Commodity 3. Durability, 4. Income level 5. The Proportion of Expenditure Spent on the Commodity 6. Time 7. The Number of Uses 8. Necessities and Luxuries 9. Addiction 10. The Level of Price.

9. Addiction:

There are certain commodities which people have become too much accustomed to use, for example, betel-nut and tobacco. The consumption of such commodities is not much reduced even when the price rises.


http://www.economicsdiscussion.net/...economics/12308


Again, elasticity becomes inelastic (lack of price sensitivity) for addicts:
Quote:
3. Drug Policy and Drug-related Crime.The U.S. devotes billions of dollars to the war on drugs. How does this affect the equilibrium price and quantity of drugs? How does it affect the amount of burglaries and robberies by drug addicts to support their habits?
•Drug interdiction reduces the supply of drugs, which causes the new equilibrium to be at a higher price and lower quantity
•Because the demand for drugs is inelastic, this raises the total revenue received by drug dealers, and the total expenditure by addicts.Holding fixed the number of addicts, the increased expenditure is financed by increased drug-related crime.
•Better to try to reduce the demand for drugs (by education, for example), because price and quantity would fall, reducing crime.

https://www.asc.ohio-state.edu/peck.../EconH200L5.pdf

Here's an article of how sugar and junk food impacts people to the point of developing addictive behavior for these substances:
https://www.healthline.com/nutritio...-drugs#section1

I am strongly against taxing behavior, because it doesn't work, and I don't believe any government in the free world has the right to legislate their belief of good behavior related to one's health. I emphasize behavior related to one's health, as there are justifiable laws to protect one's life, rights, and property. What the government could do is to review the data and allow open discussions regarding the identification of healthy lifestyles and remove the agenda to subsidize unhealthy food and farming practices, update the dietary guidelines with fact-based findings of legitimately rigorous studies and successful clinical practices using lifestyle changes as a cure. But then, I'm also writing fiction in this case.
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  #19   ^
Old Thu, Aug-01-19, 09:30
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
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I found out recently that the first dietary guidelines adapted by US governing bodies... came from a dream of Mary Baker Eddy's, who was a vegetarian Adventist.

It's enough to make one paranoid.
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  #20   ^
Old Thu, Aug-01-19, 09:33
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,122
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Yes, unfounded agendas have been adopted by the government in many cases. Dangerous practice that is well above any elected official's pay grade.
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  #21   ^
Old Thu, Aug-01-19, 09:40
Verbena Verbena is offline
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Plan: My own
Stats: 186/155/150 Female 5'4"
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Progress: 86%
Location: SW PNW
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Quote:
I know this directly from growing up in the 50s/60s, my mother smoked, and when the findings about cancer links were confirmed in the 60s, she quit tobacco. Many others did the same over a period of time, as they became convinced about the health risks.


Rob, sounds like you and I are about the same age. My mother (and father, but he died from other causes) also smoked, but she was on the other side. Every time the price of cigarettes went up she would swear it was now too expensive to smoke, and she wouldn't buy any more once she had finished the carton that was already in the house. By then, of course, she wasn't thinking about the price anymore, only her addiction. She died of complications of emphysema.
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  #22   ^
Old Thu, Aug-01-19, 19:58
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 230/179/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 113%
Location: Florida
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I smoked when I was young, everybody did. I quit over 40 years ago because I found out it was unhealthy.

It was easy to quit, difficult to stop, but I figured living a long life was better than enjoying a cigarette.

At that time there were not any no-smoking sections. Even department stores, restaurants, and hospitals had ash trays everywhere.

Education works.

Bob
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  #23   ^
Old Fri, Aug-02-19, 13:07
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 241/175/140 Female 165 cm
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Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Exclamation

Sorry folks, but off-topic discussions of politics and population control are not permitted at Active Low-Carber. A number of such posts have been removed from this thread. Members who repeatedly hijack topics could lose their posting privileges.

You may review our policy regarding contentious topics here ... https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=343128

Please stick to the original topic about sugar/food taxes


Doreen
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  #24   ^
Old Fri, Aug-02-19, 14:08
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bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 2,053
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
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Sorry Doreen... Didn't mean to step over the line. I was just following the conversational thread where it led. Hard to discuss taxes on sugar without veering off into discussions about the effects of taxes (and other attempts at governmental control of behavior) to illustrate why one is for (or against) such taxes.
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  #25   ^
Old Fri, Aug-02-19, 14:46
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 35,986
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 241/175/140 Female 165 cm
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Progress: 65%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevangel
Sorry Doreen... Didn't mean to step over the line. I was just following the conversational thread where it led. Hard to discuss taxes on sugar without veering off into discussions about the effects of taxes (and other attempts at governmental control of behavior) to illustrate why one is for (or against) such taxes.

If one reads our policy you can see that some "gray area" discussion may be tolerated, as long as it's focused on original topic.

https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=343128
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  #26   ^
Old Wed, Aug-07-19, 01:26
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 22,488
 
Plan: LCHF/IF
Stats: 217/182/160 Female 5'10"
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Progress: 61%
Location: UK
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After the sugar tax, now government mulls 'CALORIE TAX' on chocolate, cake and biscuits to curb rising obesity rates

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ssed-foods.html

Quote:
Ministers are being urged to consider putting a ‘calorie tax’ on cakes, biscuits and other processed food.

Health campaigners say a mandatory levy on sugary and fatty food is needed to tackle the obesity crisis.

Processed snacks should be limited to how many calories they can have per 100g before manufacturers are forced to pay extra to sell them, they argue.
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  #27   ^
Old Wed, Aug-07-19, 06:32
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,122
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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A proposal that is a ridiculously symbolic and ineffective action per my previous posts.
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  #28   ^
Old Wed, Aug-07-19, 09:16
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,975
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
A proposal that is a ridiculously symbolic and ineffective action per my previous posts.


That’s the other side of this, which is that they will never admit a mistake. So they are going all the way to the end with this dance marathon to save their career. (Obligatory They Shoot Horses, Don’t They? reference.)

They will write passionate op-eds about how red meat kills and fat will give you a heart attack and treats in moderation until they pass away.
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  #29   ^
Old Wed, Aug-07-19, 18:19
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Posts: 1,320
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 230/179/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 113%
Location: Florida
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While I am anti-sugar, I am more anti-tax for something like that.

I still think education would be the best route. No, it won't get everybody, but it'll get those that want to take care of themselves.

Bob
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  #30   ^
Old Thu, Aug-08-19, 05:05
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Posts: 1,281
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
While I am anti-sugar, I am more anti-tax for something like that.

I still think education would be the best route. No, it won't get everybody, but it'll get those that want to take care of themselves.

Bob



It can be done, but it'll likely take decades.



Exhibit 1:



The propaganda claiming that fat makes you fat, along with the dangers of cholesterol and saturated fat started 40ish years ago, and now nearly everyone is so firmly in the low fat/fat free/cholesterol free/low saturated fat camp that the stores are full of products proclaiming how good they are for you because they're low fat, fat free, cholesterol free, and heart healthy.


Of course it only took this long to turn so many to the fat free side because the food manufacturers were taking advantage of it, educating the public as part of pushing to sell more grains and manufactured products that met the fat phobic criteria.



But education that ends up promoting products that contain less sugar? Unless there's some serious profit incentive involved in selling unsweetened, and sweetener-free products, or they come up with a universal substitute that satisfies the enhanced sweet tooth brought about by the substitution of sugar for the fat missing in most of the foods out there these days, the manufacturer sponsored education is going to be slowed considerably.
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