I, for one, would have no interest in communicating with PETA because (a) I firmly believe that veganism is unhealthy for virtually 100% of human beings, and (b) their ties to the ALF, PCRM, and their history of obnoxious public stunts. I take them about as seriously a group of ten year olds.

If they were specifically an anti-cruelty group actually interested in making REAL CHANGE in the industry, instead of just "raising awareness" and trying to convince everyone that they can be healthy on a vegan diet, I'd consider.

living on the farm, it never bothered me one bit that alot of the animals we raised became food, either we slaughtered them ourselves or we sold them for that perpose it was just part of the food chain. I knew what breeds were being raised for showing and befriended them
what did bother me is someones dogs getting in our yard and killing just to kill. they would have chased them all over the yard nipping pulling skin and feathers off then letting them go and catching them again ect. many a neighbor's dogs and strays were shot for this reason. I always felt for the poor birds and wished the poeple that were not taking care of there dogs could have been smacked around a few times.

Gee, these "down-home barnyard tales" are making me just a little bit sick!

As I said in my post earlier, Primary school age children for the most part, lack the cognitive ability to think abstractly and understand abstract concepts. They also tend to be very egocentric...they relate everything to themselves. Some children develop the ability for abstract thinking a bit earlier, some later so it depends very much in the individual child and how mature their thinking is. In general, I would say not before the age of 12 or 13.



What perspective would you like me to put it in? New Yorkers aren't the only people in the world who lost friends and loved ones on 9-11. I think you're missing my point that it's better to not deliberately expose young children to the harsh realities of this world, such as the fact that there are maniacs out there who will hijack an airline and crash it into a skyscraper to make a point, before they are cognitively able to understand it. I really feel for those kids who were forced to face such a harsh reality at a young age because circumstances forced it upon them because they are going to have a hard struggle to overcome and it's grossly unfair to force that on a child who is not ready for it, but there is a very big difference between kids who have to face such things due to circumstances and deliberately exposing your kids to such things unnecessarily with the idea that "they're tough and can handle it". Yes, crappy things happen in this world and there are times when you simply don't have it in your power to protect your children from it, but choosing to deliberately put them in contact with those types of situations before they are ready for it is not in the best interest of the child.
When it comes down to it, I think Angeline made a very good point. I think that if you look at it statistically, children who are consistently exposed to violence and a lack of caring from a young age rarely grow up to become caring and non-violent adults. You can't be outraged at its absence if you've never experienced it for yourself.



Hey...some of us are here as volunteers to moderate the forum and give support. As for voicing my concerns to PETA; there is wisdom in knowing that what you have to say will have all the impact of spitting into the wind. PETA is an extremist organization who will not listen to or consider any viewpoint but their own. They have proved that repeatedly with their actions and disregard for objections to their tactics (see recent article in the Media forum over objections to a couple of billboards they paid for recently and their response to it). They have also shown through their associations that they are willing to support extreme measures (including destruction of private property and endangering human lives) to advance their agenda.
Whether someone chooses to support PETA or not is completely up to them. It is a free country, after all. However, knowing what I do about their tactics and who they choose to support and associate with, I could never support that organization no matter how good I believed their motives to be. Simply put, their means do not justify their ends. I'm against animal cruelty, but I'm also against supporting terrorists because they can benefit your cause. Speaking of their ends, it's PETA's firm belief that eating any animal, no matter how lovingly it was raised in how good a conditions, is wrong and, in effect, murder. If they want to believe that, it's fine with me; they're welcome to not eat meat or use products that came from animals to their heart's content, but when they start trying to force that view on me and my children, I will object strenuously. It's no different than trying to force your religious or philosophical beliefs and values on those who do not share them.

Quote:

Gee, these "down-home barnyard tales" are making me just a little bit sick!



Isnt' it amazing how far from nature our society is. 150 years ago people would have thought you were a loon if you thought like this.

I believe it was a response to this quote:






That being as it may, RockerChick...you will have no idea how it feels to watch your kids react to seeing real people die until it's your child you are watching react to it and your child that you have to comfort in the wee hours of the morning because they are having yet another nightmare about it. Same thing goes for how you will feel about other people who have no idea where your child is at cognitively, pushing some agenda on them in a very graphic and, IMO, inappropriate manner regardless of whether or not you feel that it's an appropriate time to do so or an appropriate way to present it to them.
I could say a great deal more about the inappropriateness of PETA's tactic in this particular situation from a parental standpoint, but I think I'll leave it for now.

I wrote my "down home barnyard tale" in an effort to dilute the animosity in this thread. Just thought it might provide a different perspective, and to be honest, what worries me is that a lot of kids today would think a bucket with a bag of fake blood and bones in it is pretty "cool". Am I alone in thinking this? Have no kids myself.

And I also thought your "I feel sooooo welcome here" post was fairly well balanced. So I had some hope for you.

Never mind. Perhaps the only point we might agree on is the amount of violence and obscenity and just plain rudeness that is everywhere on television these days. Before I retired, I worked with children with autism and their families. Most of them watched "The Simpsons" as a family on a regular basis. I 've only watched the show once .....which was enough....but I can't tell you how many parents I talked with who couldn't understand why their autistic kids (at least the higher functioning ones) had become so rudely "mouthy".

Gee. Duh. "Teach your children well."

Kay

If you think The Simpsons is bad (and I agree with you that it just teaches kids that it's cool to be mouthy to adults), have you ever seen South Park?
I watched it once and honestly didn't see the humor in a show where every other word is a profanity coming from a kid's mouth. If I heard my kids talking like that, they'd find out in a hurry what liquid Palmolive tastes like.

Tarheel, when I said that I felt "soooooooo welcome here", that was a little sarcasm. I actually don't feel welcome (just look at the reactions I continue to get, huh) but I still feel like contributing my opinion. I find debates stimulating and I like to learn from other people's views. That's all, really.

When I said that the "down-home barnyard tales" were makin' me a little nauseous, I meant no animosity toward you. It was said rather tongue-in-cheek, also in an attempt to lighten things up a bit here. So sorry if it was not interpreted as such, honestly! I actually get a cool vibe from your posts. You seem like a great lady.

Incidentally, some of my most rewarding and fascinating experiences have been in working with autistic children. And yes, I agree with you, shows like the Simpsons fairly hynotize kids - kids with disabilities or not. And as a result, that "rudeness" you speak of is running rampant. It's become "the norm" in our culture. It's horrifying, isn't it?

I am a vegetarian in the sense that I still eat fish and dairy, just no meat. It's been a gradual transition off of meat over the years. For a long time I have been feeling ethically wrong about eating it, and it was not agreeing with my digestion.

A few months ago, I experienced "the clincher". My father was raised on a farm in Europe and I call him "The Meat King". His idea of a grand old time was visiting Europe this past summer and assisting in the slaughter of a 250-lb. pig for a huge feast held in his honor. And then bringing home the videotape of the slaughter for the rest of the family to watch. Talk about your "barnyard extravaganzas". I was practically keeling over and in tears before running out of the room. I guess I'm really not cut out for that kinda thing.

You wrote:

"what worries me is that a lot of kids today would think a bucket with a bag of fake blood and bones in it is pretty "cool". Am I alone in thinking this?"

This cracked me up. I didn't even think of that angle, but you are absolutely right. Lots of kids would find this kinda thing totally cool and fun, and relish throwing the fake blood and bones at eachother in the schoolyard.

Teach your children indeed!

Lisa: Nope, never seen South Park. And don't want to. We pretty much stopped watchinng any tv at all a couple of years ago, simply because it seemed to have become so incredibly stupid. We only keep the tv and the cable for college basketball and watching the Braves and the Cubs play baseball.

I'm clearly too old to be in whatever "loop" is popular these days. In my mind, rudeness to ANYONE is not cool.

I'm really, really glad that I'm not trying to raise children in the world today.....

Kay

I think it's irrelevant to the issue that some parents aren't doing their job in raising their kids. That STILL doesn't make it PETA's job.

When it comes to the networks, I mostly agree with you. However...there are some very good programs out there if you know where to look. We watch a lot of Discovery Channel, The History Channel, Animal Planet and other such channels. It's getting bad, though, when you even have to monitor the Disney channel for appropriateness.

RockerChik...sorry you seem to have taken disagreement with your position as a sign that you are unwelcome. We don't frown on debate or disagreement here as long as it's done within the boundaries of the forum rules.

Now, see....once we get a bit off topic, we can all "make nice".

Rockerchic, I understood that you were being sarcastic with the "soooo welcome" bit.

I will continue to disagree with the PETA group as far as their tactics go, but I still respect everyone's right to an opinion.

I'm considering a second career as an ombudsman. Unless I have to give up my addiction to pig pickin's.....

I have a lot of big goldfish in a water garden in the back yard, and they sort of turn me off of eating fish. Beautiful, peaceful things that they are.

But chickens? Chickens are nervous creatures. Not a brain in their heads, so far as I can tell. Can't hold a candle to a hawk.

Kay

Lisa: I do know there are a lot of great educational channels on t.v. But our local cable company has made finding any of them almost impossible! We are stuck with this "box" that sits on top of the t.v. and the programming changes by the week....my husband has one remote that works some of the time....we have about 15 remotes in a desk drawer that theoretically SHOULD work something, but heaven knows what.

I just rely on the internet these days for news and info.

I think I once caught some good shows on Animal Planet before our "box" changed channels. I'm pretty sure it was not a show where anyone slaughtered a chicken, however.

Cheers,

Kay

Somewhere between the age of 9 and 12, mostly where boys are concerned, the contents of that bucket will become 'cool'. The most likely antics will include:

* stomping the packet to see it splatter
* water balloon fights
* Dracula imitations
* drinking it
* throwing the liquid on all and sundry, especially girls

While this may seem more amusing at first, it still denotes a mind that obviously isn't ready for this sort of 'creative presentation' of the cruelty issue.

Re: TV - IMHO, TV was/is a huge threat to literacy, but spell-check programs are worse.

Cheers,

Friday