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  #16   ^
Old Thu, Jan-17-19, 12:23
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,906
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Sisson's interview was informative. I have some reservations with his message, as it works well for those who don't have underlying health symptoms or poor behaviors like T2D, obesity, carb addiction, binge eating, and so forth. He indicates being metabolically flexible is the goal, and it's a worthy goal. However, when he says that once he achieves flexibility, he can ramp up to 120 grams of carbs on certain days and have a piece of cheesecake or a bite of triple chocolate layer cake, he's talking about someone who has no other dietary or metabolic issues. It's a major caveat that could have been brought out in the discussion by a more knowledgeable interviewer, maybe someone like Bret Scher or Ivor Cummins.
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  #17   ^
Old Thu, Jan-17-19, 14:44
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 2,001
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
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I enjoyed Sisson's interview. Not being a "natural athlete," I haven't paid much attention to him in the past because he always seemed to be focusing his message towards people who wanted to run marathons or body-build or play some intense sport at a professional or semi-pro level... none of which ever was nor ever will be me.

I did find his discussion about easing into a ketogenic diet most interesting. (i.e., ease in by first cutting out sugar and very starchy vegetable and grains for a few weeks, and only then -if you still feel good - have you "earned the right" to go full-bore keto! In point of fact, that IS the way hubby and I ended up doing it as we figured out how best to keep his blood sugars under control based on his BG meter readings. Our transition to very low carb was pretty slow and I don't recall either of us ever experiencing anything like "keto flu." It wasn't until I found this site that I even heard the term.

I'm thinking that this is area that could use a bit more study because a lot of people DO give up on low carb because of intense keto flu.

I quit statins because of an intense negative reaction - and thereafter I have utterly refused to even consider taking another statin and I tend to be a pretty vocal opponent of statins.

I can't very well fault those who've had a bad reaction with keto flu for becoming vocal opponents of the entire low carb concept. Just like my experience with statins, their first-hand experience with keto flu tells them that this is BAD IDEA. Maybe if more people eased into keto, we'd see less intense negativity about the concept. On the other hand, those who ease into keto probably don't see that highly motivating 10 to 12 lb weight loss the first week either!
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  #18   ^
Old Thu, Jan-17-19, 15:50
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,906
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Bev - you make some excellent points, as Mark's slow way of easing into lower carb is a very sensible approach. I started low carb first and simply cut out grains, starches, and sugars. Then I decided to become more strict, and my first approach was Atkins Induction, which is 20 grams of carbs or lower, so it was the equivalent of going to ketosis. I did experience the keto flu for a few days, but with the information available on this forum and other places, I was able to understand what was happening and was able to quickly counteract that with electrolytes and fluids.

For someone new to low carb or keto, it's extremely difficult to absorb all the information initially. It takes time, so Mark's 21-day program or using the DietDoctor challenge or any other informative source to help in the early stages might prevent people from abandoning the idea because they feel like they're going to expire.

Your point about people jumping on the bandwagon to lose 10-12 pounds (mostly water weight) in the first week is important, as this is how this WOE often gets the attention of others. That's unfortunate, as it's a sound way of life, and I say this with confidence as I enter my 6th consecutive year of this journey with no plans to stop.
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  #19   ^
Old Thu, Jan-17-19, 17:28
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19,943
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 171/155/155 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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I was disappointed on the length of this, also. When I saw it was 2 hours long, I thought maybe they posted the wrong link, and it was several episodes strung together. I was like, "I have to go to bed in half an hour! "

Mark's a good speaker. I don't think I've ever listened to an interview with him before. I usually prefer transcripts.
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  #20   ^
Old Thu, Jan-17-19, 17:51
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 2,001
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
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Because we eased our way into low carb and then into Keto, I don't have an exact date to point to as our "start" date but Hubby and I will be completing 5 years sometime this February/March. And yes, I agree that THIS is a sound way of life.

In fact, I was thinking the other day that maybe DietDoctor needs to add a section to it's success stories... a section on "long-term success stories" that features people of any age who've been successfully living a low carb or ketogenic life for 5 years or more.

I mean, one of the things nay-sayers almost always say: "it might work okay in the short term but it's not sustainable! Or, "it's dangerous over the long term." Maybe it is time for some of us long-term sustainers to speak up and be heard. (yep, that's me trying to talk myself into sharing my story on dietdoctor. Is your's on there Rob? Jey? )

Long-term success could mean losing a significant amount of weight and keeping it off; or getting off of and/or staying off of diabetes medications; or vastly improving some other measurable health parameter and sustaining the improvement... whilst sticking with a low carb diet for the long term...5 years.

Obviously, for most of us, there are occasions when we don't completely adhere to our WOE. But, nobody ever says an "eat less move more" plan isn't sustainable just because folks who religiously follow such a plan STILL have the occasional day when they eat more than they should and sit around all day never breaking a sweat! And 5 years of longer of sticking with a low carb or ketogenic WOE 95% of the time without adverse effects ought to be proof enough that is IS sustainable and certainly not "inherently dangerous."
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  #21   ^
Old Thu, Jan-17-19, 18:32
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,515
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevangel
In fact, I was thinking the other day that maybe DietDoctor needs to add a section to it's success stories... a section on "long-term success stories" that features people of any age who've been successfully living a low carb or ketogenic life for 5 years or more.

I mean, one of the things nay-sayers almost always say: "it might work okay in the short term but it's not sustainable! Or, "it's dangerous over the long term." Maybe it is time for some of us long-term sustainers to speak up and be heard. (yep, that's me trying to talk myself into sharing my story on dietdoctor. Is your's on there Rob? Jey? )



A while back Franziska Spritzler from diet doctor contacted me and then interviewed me and my story appeared on dietdoctor. She has interviewed a number of other people whose stories appear on diet doctor. She interviewed Ken as well. She found me on this forum. She was looking for people who had lost significant amounts of weight and then kept the weight off. I just looked on diet doctor and while her stories are all there they are not placed in a single category. I think it would be a good idea to have a separate long sustaining weight loss category on the diet doctor site. Anything that can be done to counter the myth of non-sustainability would be great. Here's my story:

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb...ght-loss-decade
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  #22   ^
Old Thu, Jan-17-19, 18:38
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Posts: 11,515
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/137/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: USA
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Congratulations, Jean!
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  #23   ^
Old Thu, Jan-17-19, 18:59
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,974
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Good job, Jean! I like that Diet Doctor doesn't care that you were following someone else's diet plan; they are more interested in promoting LCHF health.
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  #24   ^
Old Fri, Jan-18-19, 04:16
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,116
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Congrats again Jean!

DietDoctor uses a Tag system for Categories. Following Jean's story title in light blue letters are all the Tags applied to her story, one of them is "long term weight loss" plus allergies, digestive issues, etc.
Tap that tag and other Long term weight loss stories will be listed plus articles on that same topic.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/category...erm-weight-loss

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, Jan-18-19 at 04:23.
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  #25   ^
Old Fri, Jan-18-19, 04:50
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,515
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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Thanks for the congratulations. I didnít post my story so that I would receive congratulations. In fact eating LLC is so second nature to me and makes so much sense from a health perspective that it seems to me like being congratulated for brushing my teeth. I wonder why everyone doesnít eat this way.

Thanks Janet for the tip about the tags.
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  #26   ^
Old Sun, Jan-20-19, 09:30
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,906
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Dr. Cate Shanahan was very good in her one-on-one interview. Nothing that I haven't heard before. In subsequent sessions like Episodes 4 and 5, we're getting a few plant-based advocates some of whom think eating red meat causes inflammation, T2D, and cancer. Many of these beliefs are based on epidemiological data where it's impossible to isolate one food type as causative, for example, Colin Campbell's spurious "research." I'm fine with a plant-based approach being touted as healthy. My caveat is for some and only with the consumption of some plants. It's when they cite meat and protein types as being unhealthy that I find irresponsible, as it's not based on any factual information at this time.

Jason Fung's appearance in Episode 5 is information that many who have been following him and reading his protocol find familiar. They are careful not to paint IF as something that is easier to get into when one is already following low carb or ketogenic approaches although he did mention that low carb is a good protocol for many. My interest in this series now is how the various ways of eating for health are portrayed, as there is enough confusion in nutritional knowledge and dietary approaches today. I have no doubt that one can make a plant-based approach work; yet, it requires a lot of knowledge about essential nutrients required by the body that need to be added to the diet. It's incumbent on the individual pursuing a certain WOE to fully understand how to achieve health and pros and cons including understanding one's n=1 experiences of a certain approach. For the pure message that good health can be achieved by lifestyle changes, this series could be beneficial if one can wade through and discriminate among all the approaches described to select the best approach for the individual.

Last edited by GRB5111 : Sun, Jan-20-19 at 09:37.
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  #27   ^
Old Sun, Jan-20-19, 09:41
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Posts: 11,515
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/137/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
It's incumbent on the individual pursuing a certain WOE to fully understand how to achieve health and pros and cons including understanding one's n=1 experiences of a certain approach. For the pure message that good health can be achieved by lifestyle changes, this series could be beneficial if one can wade through and discriminate among all the approaches described to select the best approach for the individual.


Which is half the problem. From my observation, most people do not have the confidence, expertise, or patience to juggle all the competing information and arrive at what is right for them.

Another angle is how the beginning months of a vegetarian/vegan diet are known as the "honeymoon period" and people feel great. As described in the linked article, when things start to go bad, it is very difficult for a human to believe it could be the malnutrition, since they felt so good making the change.

In addition, principled defectors are speaking out about the longterm damage to their health, but they are small voices in the volume of press support and famous vegans who lie and claim they never eat animal foods, when it is their dirty secret that they do. Death threats are common when former vegans try to tell the truth.
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  #28   ^
Old Sun, Jan-20-19, 13:37
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,974
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Though I've watched and read most of Jason Fung's work, his appearance in Episode 5 did a very good job of explaining many topics, not just repeating phrases he has used multiple times before, as he does in many interviews.

When I start hearing the plant fanatics or the people who have something to sell, I scroll on to see who's next.
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