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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Aug-28-03, 16:39
rainne rainne is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 199
 
Plan: Protien Power
Stats: // Female --
BF:
Progress: 21%
Location: Southern Ontario
Default Lipitor Rebel

I may have lost my doctor today. He basically said I should get with the program or find another doctor. The program is a statin (lipitor) to lower cholesterol and an ace inhibitor (Monopril) to protect my kidneys.

I was hoping that if I could achieve normal blood sugars, my risk of heart disease and kidney damage would also become normal. I wish I knew my exact cholesterol numbers, they are apparently only a bit high - - and are coming down.

Right about the same time my diabetes was diagnosed, I was also diagnosed with a small amount of kidney damage, and had an angioplasty to clear out an artery in my belly. As bad as that might seem at my age of 46 - I wonder if my future looks brighter because I've both Bernstein and research from Harvard that kidney damage can be reversed if bg stays low enough, and at the time of my angioplasty, the vascular surgeon said the rest of my arteries looked 'pristine'.

I'm afraid of these drugs. Lipitor especially.

What do you all think? Besides the fact that my doc is an arrogant poopoohead...
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Aug-28-03, 17:57
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

I'd take his advice.....find another doctor.

In his defense, he's following standard protocol geared towards *most* diabetics who are not well controlled and the medications that he is recommending do seem to offer a degree of protection against diabetic complications to those that fall in that group. However...if you have been maintaining non-diabetic blood sugars, I fail to see the need for them unless they are treating an actual (not potential) problem and even then, they may not be needed for long if at all and I think that the potential risks of taking especially a statin outweigh any potential benefit to a person who is maintaining normal blood sugar readings.

If you do decide to seek medical care elsewhere, ask when you call the office if the doctor is agreeable to diabetic patients following a carb controlled plan. If so, make sure that you take your blood sugar log with you so that he can see the degree of control that you are maintaining with your current regimen.
Good docs that are willing to work with you can be hard to find, but they're out there. Good luck!
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 10:49
schaftd schaftd is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 28
 
Plan: none
Stats: 10/10/10 Female 1
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

You could always just "pretend" to be compliant, but do what you think is right for you.

This is sort of what I do. My sawbones wanted to put me on Liptor also, because my LDL is 112(!), and she knows that I have diabetes, even though my blood profile is normal in every other way and no one could tell by looking at my blood work if I didn't tell them.

I "Just Said No" to drugs. Like we teach our kids. She made a note in my record that I refused treatment. I guess I'll get detention next.


-
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 11:03
melissasvh's Avatar
melissasvh melissasvh is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 255
 
Plan: Atkins (modified - no red meat)
Stats: 324/244/150 Female 5'6
BF:46.6%?/42/20%
Progress: 46%
Location: Pacific NW
Default

Ummm....The other thing to remember is just because a doctor writes a prescription doesn't mean that you have to have it filled. Or, if the doctor calls or faxes it to a pharmacy, you can request the pharmacy (directly) not to fill it. The pharmacist can put the prescription on hold until the prescription expires (one year from the date written) or if you ever decide to have it filled.

I've never heard or seen of a doctor's office checking with a pharmacy to make sure a patient has filled or picked up their prescriptions.

Last edited by melissasvh : Fri, Aug-29-03 at 11:04.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 11:56
rainne rainne is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 199
 
Plan: Protien Power
Stats: // Female --
BF:
Progress: 21%
Location: Southern Ontario
Default

Well, I've bascically not been taking it for months, and not saying anything -- but yesterday, he asked me flat out and I don't like to lie.


Am I overreacting? Is lipitor safe?
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 12:08
rainopal rainopal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 149
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 170/169/135 Female 60
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: southern california
Question

I dropped into your thread and was very concerned with your fears about Lipitor. My husband is on Lipitor for high cholesterol and I, who am a Diabetic, was on Lipitor until the Atkins diet helped me bring down both my cholesterol and blood glucose. What are the dangers of taking Lipitor? And where can I get reliable information on this drug. Thank you in advance for your help.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 12:21
melissasvh's Avatar
melissasvh melissasvh is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 255
 
Plan: Atkins (modified - no red meat)
Stats: 324/244/150 Female 5'6
BF:46.6%?/42/20%
Progress: 46%
Location: Pacific NW
Default

Here is some information on Lipitor (Atorvastatin). As with any drug, Lipitor can manifest several different side effects - or none at all - depending on the patient. It is intended primarily for people who can't control cholesterol through diet and exercise (i.e. genetic predisposition for high cholesterol) and is, therefore, usually a lifelong therapy.

Lipitor is prescribed in any of several different strengths. Therefore, you are probably more likely to have side effects if you're taking 40 mg than if you're taking 10 mg.

Lipitor
More information
Even more

Disclaimer: I am not a licensed health care professional (just a student), so please consult either your doctor or your pharmacist for more information.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 16:06
rainne rainne is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 199
 
Plan: Protien Power
Stats: // Female --
BF:
Progress: 21%
Location: Southern Ontario
Default

Authors Michael and Mary Eades (Protien Power Lifeplan) warn against the use of lipitor, suggesting that if cholesteral is high and a low carb diet doesn't bring it down enough, that patients should try flush-free niacin first.

They cite studies which suggest that lipitor did indeed reduce the incidence of heart attacks, but patients taking it suffered highter incidence of other fatal illness.

Dr. Mercola cautions about lipitor. He has posted a number of articles about it, including this:

http://www.mercola.com/2003/aug/13/statin_drugs.htm
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 16:10
rainne rainne is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 199
 
Plan: Protien Power
Stats: // Female --
BF:
Progress: 21%
Location: Southern Ontario
Default

Oops. This is the article I meant to link... although the one I did share is also good.

http://www.mercola.com/article/statins.htm




I guess I've convinced myself that I would prefer to avoid a statin if I can.

On Tuesday, I'll call my physician's office to get some specific numbers.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 16:35
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

There are alternatives to statin drugs that are not nearly as toxic (if at all). The no-flush Niacin mentioned above is one. Several others are red yeast rice, guggul lipids and garlic oil, all of which have been shown to be very helpful in controlling high cholesterol, especially the Niacin, Guggul lipids and red yeast rice.
The downside is that since these are natural alternatives, most insurance companies won't cover them and they can be expensive, especially if you decide to try a combination of them.
I've read enough about the potential dangers of statins to stear wide and clear of them if at all possible and since my cholesterol has responded nicely to diet alone (down from 238 to 177, LDL down from 160 to 108), I'm not about to let my doc badger, threaten or cajole me into taking it. Still...it's an individual choice, but I think I'd try more natural approach along with diet and excercise before considering something stronger.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 16:37
RoseTattoo's Avatar
RoseTattoo RoseTattoo is offline
Kid R
Posts: 1,168
 
Plan: Maintenance
Stats: // Female 5"1'
BF:Too darn much!
Progress: 90%
Location: PA
Default

I'm not looking to start an argument here, but most of the negative stuff on Mercola's site is about Baycol (sp?), which has been withdrawn from the market. The negatives about Lipitor concern rare side effects, all of which can and are, by protocol, carefully monitored by your doctor. I don't see enough evidence against Lipitor to make me wary of taking it. It seems to me that if you're under the care of a good doctor, and if Lipitor isn't directly contra-indicated in your case, that it's safe enough--especially if you're at high risk for complications of high cholesterol (as I am).

Should you try a non-drug alternative first? Sure, it's never a good idea to take a drug unless you absolutely must. But for some of us, the "natural" alternatives aren't enough. And IMHO, the case against Lipitor just hasn't been made yet. Mercola's "evidence" is sketchy at best.

Last edited by RoseTattoo : Fri, Aug-29-03 at 16:45.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 16:49
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Prescribing Lipitor or other statin drugs for a very high cholesterol that is not responding to diet and exercise intervention is one thing. Prescribing it indescriminately for even slightly elevated readings is, in my opinion, unnecessary. When prescribing (and taking) medication, one has to weigh the possible benefits against any possible risks and decide if one outweighs the other.
We have been so terrified for so long of "high cholesterol" that just the mention of having this dreaded malady is enough to get some people jumping on the "lifetime of prescription drugs" bandwagon.
Personally, I'm not all that convinced that cholesterol is the huge evil that is has been portrayed to be, especially given that more than half those that have a cardiac event have normal cholesterol readings.
It's now thought that triglycerides and a particular protein level (c-reactive protein) are much better markers of cardiac risk than total, HDL or LDL levels.

For more information on the idea that cholesterol may not be the danger that it's been presented to the public as, see this link: http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm
and this one too: www.thincs.org

*shrugs* maybe we all just wind up believing what we want to believe, but a lot of what the authors in the links above have to say makes a great deal of sense to me.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Aug-29-03, 17:04
RoseTattoo's Avatar
RoseTattoo RoseTattoo is offline
Kid R
Posts: 1,168
 
Plan: Maintenance
Stats: // Female 5"1'
BF:Too darn much!
Progress: 90%
Location: PA
Default

Well, I would certainly agree that there is a bandwagon effect going on. And if I had borderline cholesterol readings, I wouldn't have chosen to take Lipitor--nor, my doctor said, would he have suggested I go on it. But as you wisely said, Lisa, everyone has to do a "cost/benefit" analysis when medications are involved. And in my case, the fear isn't of heart disease, anyway, but of the vascular dementia that has been correlated with high cholesterol in every single one of my elderly female relatives for several generations. And there is small scale evidence that Lipitor INDEPENDENTLY (i.e., even in the absence of high LDL levels) protects against loss of cognitive function in elderly women.

So in my case, I think the risk of taking the drug--carefully monitored by my cautious doctor--is quite worth it. At any rate, the small risk of a rare side effect is certainly preferable to a future of becoming like my mother, grandmother, great aunts, aunts, etc.

Edited to say: Lisa, I'm really sorry aboutt his post. I'm not saying anything different than you said, which is that this is an individual decision based on specific risk factors, etc. Sorry--I didn't mean to get on a soapbox.

Last edited by RoseTattoo : Fri, Aug-29-03 at 18:18.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Aug-30-03, 06:49
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Sorry--I didn't mean to get on a soapbox.


No need for apologies, Rose!
We all have our soapboxes and I'm no exception to the rule.

It really bothers me that the pharmaceutical companies seem to be trying to make patients and lifetime users of their wonder drugs out of healthy people by taking advandage of the unreasonable (IMHO) fear that most people seem to have of their serum cholesterol levels. (not saying that your concerns are unreasonable; given your family history...I'd be concerned, too!).
Ultimately, we all have to make our own choices based on the advice of our physicians and our own personal research about what the best course for each of us is.
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Aug-30-03, 08:51
CatherineG CatherineG is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 188/173/160 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress:
Default

Has anyone heard of "Zetia"? It is not a statin and has lowered my total cholesterol from 360 down to 250, with no side affects. It works on the digestive system rather than the liver. Hope this helps.
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