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  #16   ^
Old Thu, Jun-25-20, 11:22
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,425
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
Progress: 50%

Originally Posted by WereBear
My own experience bears this out. One thing the quoted article gets right, (that I also see with cats,) is that our bodies will be hungry until we get enough nutrients. This is how I explain the paradoxical craving for foods which turn out not to be good for us.

Since these foods "don't work" to supply us with nutrients, the body assumes this is the only foods we have around. (Why else are we eating junk? This is an evolutionary position, not one modeled on the modern world.) So, like me with vegetable protein, the body "tells me" to eat more of the inadequate food, in an attempt to get nutrition from it.

It also explains how eating Keto, focusing on animal foods my body gets along with, has eliminated so many cravings. I'm hungry, and then I eat good food, and then I'm not hungry any more.

This is my body working as it should.

There is also a theory that your body/brain connection actually remembers the most often consumed source of certain nutrients, and that's one reason you crave certain foods.

Decades ago when I was actively avoiding red meat (Heart attack on a plate!!! ) as much as possible, along with all the truly junky carbs, I craved black olives. It wasn't until I started eating beef again that the black olive craving went away. I couldn't figure out why, until I looked at the ingredients on canned olives - they have ferrous gluconate added to help keep them dark. Ferrous gluconate is a truly lousy source of iron (especially in the tiny amount added to canned black olives), but it was about all I was eating that had any iron at all in it.

As cravings go, I could certainly do a lot worse than black olives (and definitely craved a lot worse than black olives). I still like black olives, but I no longer devise ways to eat them frequently.

Last edited by Calianna : Thu, Jun-25-20 at 14:55.
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  #17   ^
Old Thu, Jun-25-20, 14:14
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,943
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/238.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
Progress: 68%
Location: NE Florida

Originally Posted by deirdra
My cats (all rescues) have eaten a grain-free canned "Catkins" diet and stayed in the 7-9 lb range. The vet techs often mention that they are "tiny", even though they are "perfect" on the body composition scale and the size of all cats I ever saw in the 1960s. Now, the average cat is overweight or obese, so people think it is "normal".
Funny how even cats can vary, just as people can. I had five cats for many years. The older three have since passed on, but I still have the two younger cats (not super young anymore at 7 and 10). They all ate the same diet - grain-free higher protein dry kibble with the some cheaper canned food.

Of the three older cats - two were lithe and slender their whole lives. One lived to be 20 and was fit and active until the last day of her life. The other thin cat only lived to be 16, and had gotten weak and less active his last year or so. The third cat was build, as I used to describe her, like a soccer ball with legs. Fattest cat I'd ever owned, despite eating the exact same food in the same amounts as the others, but she was pretty active too and also lived to be 20. Of my current two cats the 10-year-old is lithe and fit. The seven year old, at 12 pounds, is a couple pounds more than the vet would like him to be - but he looks more solid that fat, and is very active as well. So the same diet affects different cats differently, just as the same diet affects different humans differently.

The protein limit suggested in this article here sounds awfully low to me. I don't always get as much protein as I feel I should but at least I strive for more! Dr. Naiman feels 30% of our calories should come from protein. I almost never hit that level, but I'm usually good about getting 20-25%.

I remember Tom Naughton's blog post about eating like a gorilla. I have to imagine that an orangutan eats fairly similarly.

Today I'm actually right in the Naiman range with 126g protein (32%), 119g fat (65% fat) and 10.4g total carbs (3% carbs), because I bought and roasted a bunch of chicken wings, skin on of course - but not something I do every day. Though I actually love chicken wings and could probably eat them more often.
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  #18   ^
Old Fri, Jun-26-20, 05:21
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 7,885
Plan: ADMF (500 calories)
Stats: 212/195/160 Female 5'6
BF:Too much!
Progress: 33%
Location: Rural Maine

Here's the link to the blog post Tom Naughton wrote on eating like a gorilla:

Debbie, I agree whole-heartedly about cats and how the same foods in the same amounts affect them differently. I've had lean cats, and I've had pudgy cats, yet they eat the same. I'm so tired of vets telling me to put one on a diet. Like that's going to happen. Try monitoring the food intake of one out of three cats when they won't eat the same thing two days in a row.

I also wanted to say I agree with others who have said that we will continue to eat until we get the nutrition (protein) we need. I can't cite the source, but in one of Gary Taubes' books or articles he wrote that with the proper nutrition from whole foods and good protein, people might really need only 800 calories.
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  #19   ^
Old Fri, Jun-26-20, 06:43
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 643
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 200/174.5/175 Female 5 feet 6 inches
Progress: 102%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA

Not being a nutritional scientist, I rely only on what I hear/read.

I am told that the Kwashiakor present in Egyptian children is caused by a lack of total protein in their diet which is primarily grain based.

I am also told that with food combining - as in rice plus beans - as in Mexican food, total protein can be achieved.

Bawdy Wench - I too have cats - one lean and one obese. They eat the same food but the obese cat eats more than the lean cat. In fact he cleans the left overs from the lean cat.

I agree - putting the obese cat on a weight loss diet is pure insanity.

Last edited by Benay : Fri, Jun-26-20 at 06:47. Reason: added comment
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  #20   ^
Old Fri, Jun-26-20, 07:44
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,852
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
Progress: 139%
Location: USA

Originally Posted by Benay
I am also told that with food combining - as in rice plus beans - as in Mexican food, total protein can be achieved.

That is the theory. But the support for how it works in practice has some unacknowledged pitfalls. As always, I turn to Dr. Ede when it comes to vegan myths.

Some plant proteins are less digestible (less bioavailable) than animal proteins. Protein from corn and beans are the least digestible, at about 70%, compared to meat, which is about 94% digestible. Glutens contain stretches of repetitive amino acid sequences (rich in proline and glutamine) that are particularly difficult for our enzymes to digest, so we cannot completely break this protein down into its individual amino acids. [Gutiérrez 2017]

Grains, beans, nuts, and seeds (the primary protein sources for plant-based diets) contain anti-nutrients including protease inhibitors which interfere with the body’s ability to digest proteins, and fiber which interferes with the absorption of protein. These plant protein sources also include phytic acid which interferes with mineral absorption. [See my grains, beans, nuts, and seeds page for more information about these anti-nutrients. See also my "Foods that Cause Hypothyroidism" article to read about the risk of goiter from eating soy.]

Does It Matter Where You Get Your Protein?


There is no evidence that eating protein in excess of estimated daily requirements is harmful to health.

Plus, in my case:

Grains, beans, nuts, and seeds (the primary protein sources for plant-based diets) contain anti-nutrients

I have tested grains, beans, and seeds, and my body seems to complain. Nuts are a work in progress.

Last edited by WereBear : Fri, Jun-26-20 at 07:49.
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