I have never posted on here before, I'm a frequent lurker. I used to frequently post on the AOL Atkins Message Boards / Support Groups, which is where I got most of my advice from. I do not have AOL anymore, but I do know there are quite a few AOL regulars that post here, and I only hope that they listen to what I have to say and pass it on to that board as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not just here to bitch about the other board, I have seen the same advice on this board.

Anyhow, when I first started back in April, I did all the research on Atkins. I have read the book twice and always kept it around as a refference. I would not put anything in my mouth unless I was absolutely, positively sure it was allowed. I used to post my menus on a daily basis and I had my fitday journal along with my height/weight stats in my siggy. Everyone said I was not eating enough, not getting enough calories and not enough fat. They suggested I add more olive oil and mayo. Over and over and over again I have read "calories do not count', "Count carbohydates only". I kept my carbs under 20g. I wasn't losing much, and everyone was saying the same thing, so of course I listened to them. It was about 50 other people's word against mine. They have been doing this alot longer than I have and have lost tremendous amounts of weight in short periods of time. So of course I was inspired, and took their advice. So instead of 1200-1300 (120lbs X10) calories a day, I stopped counting and went way above that. I even put spoonfulls of Flaxseed oil in my coffee.

NowI am just under 5 feet I have a tiny frame and have always been tiny. I always weighed under 100lbs. Well up untill I had twins earlier this year, that packed an extra 25lbs on me.

My point is this: Please do not just tell people that "Calories do not count"! They most certainly do. Newbies (or idiots like myself) look up to the pros and take their advice not realizing that they weigh 200lbs and CAN eat 2000 calories and lose weight. A person like myself, who weighs alot less and does not need to lose 80lbs, can NOT eat that much! I just wish I realized this back then because now I'm 14lbs heavier then when I started. Well unless of course they have a super duper fast metabolism but if that was the case they would'nt be here of all places.

Thats all I had to say. Don't get me wrong, I know alot of people give great advice, and this dosen't apply to everyone. But I'm sure if you did a search for the phrase "Calories don't count" you'll find a few posts written in a way that would make a newbie think they have to; or can eat more than they should and you will understand what I'm getting at.

Good advice, though for the record, I've never seen any pros around here suggest that calories don't count.

When someone isn't losing weight, there are many possible reasons and they can be polar opposites of each other: they could be eating too many carbs, or not enough. Too many calories, or not enough. In tweaking, we can only advise trial and error and let that person figure out what the problem was for him/her.

Thanks for the feedback...we really do appreciate it.

I've been mentoring here since March '02 and I have seen a very wide range of experiences with regard to calories, as have the other mentors. I think that, in general, we here agree on a protocol something like this:

1) Start out by not counting calories, just carbs. This makes it easier to get started on the diet and most people are SICK of counting calories. Most times the calories are self-regulating and this works fine. If weight loss stalls for 4+ weeks we then suggest
2) Keeping calories to 10-12x bodyweight. If they stall again,
3) Consider their activity level and if it is rather high, suggest increasing calories/fat. If that doesn't work
4) Especially for peri-menopausal/menopausal women, consider decreasing calories to 10x IDEAL bodyweight

The problem is that there are ALWAYS exceptions to these guidelines.... maybe as many as 1 in 5 or 10....whose bodies, for whatever reason, just don't respond the same as most others. But we have to distribute advice based on our experiences and the experiences of the thousands of others who have come before us. We dispense this advice because it WORKS for most people. We regret that the advice you read here and elsewhere didn't work for you, but that doesn't mean the advice was necessarily "bad", you see? I would imagine that having twins could easily wreak havoc with one's hormonal system and it could take up to a year to recover from it fully. That alone could explain your difficulty with losing weight. Be patient, enjoy your babies and just keep tweaking!! You'll get down to your ideal weight eventually.

just thought I would add my two cents, which is a lot like Teri's two.

I have never counted calories. At first, because I am concentrating on changing the way I eat, and then after about five days or so, I don't need to. My appetite is so completely obliterated that I have to make myself eat three meals a day!

I never counted calories until after I stopped eating this way (the first time).

Now that I am starting again, I will once again, not count calories.

My feelings, based on my own experience and those that I know were sticking to the plan, are this: if you're doing it right, you won't be hungry all the time and you won't need to count calories. Not that you don't have to...you won't need to.

It's true...one size does not fit all...

I've been LCing for 1 year (next week) and never in that year have I counted calories. I've lost 104+ pounds. I use mayo and butter and cheeze and I eat fat on roast etc. My cholesterol as of last week is 159.

Other people may have to watch calories more than I. But that comes with tweaking the program and is not necessarilly applicable for all newbies.

So while the warning to newbies is well received, I'd just as strongly encourage people to read books, choose the program that most appeals to them and follow it religiously. Tweaking comes later.

Good luck!

Donald

I do not count calories either, and since I'm familiar now with portions and allowable foods, I rarely count carbs .

But I will admit that my portions were way too large, and eating what I thought was the "required" 3 meals plus 2 snacks...well, I ate when I didn't even need to.

Recently, I have been eating much less food and only when hungry. This has naturally decreased my calories and that is when the loss started. Although it initiated due to stress and trauma, for the past several weeks I have been trying to bring my eating back to normal and still have not gained.

No, I wouldn't COUNT calories, but if there's more going in than your body can process, well, the weight's not gonna come off. So you do have to keep an eye on the general quantity of food that you're eating...and we watch that by calories as well.

Whatever works for you is usually the "rule" I see on this board the most!!

You've got to use your head with this diet, just as in any program....there are no miracle diets around....use you common sense and find your "niche"......different calories intakes work for different people....experiment until you get in that losing trend...and STICK TO THAT LEVEL!

Even the ad for Atkins on Shop America is very misleading at the moment. (UK tv)

Recently they have had 'studio guests' who have all lost weight using Atkins. One of the women states that she added up the calories once and found she was eating in excess of 3000 per day on her new 'diet'. What they fail to then address is whether this was when she weighed her heaviest and wasnt far off the 10 or 12 x body weight, or whether this was on the first few days induction when her appetite was not yet under control.

I have only just started and I dare not add up the calories until day 4 or 5 because I am hoping that I too will experience this wonderful loss of appetite that's supposed to occur!

I am a very hungry person, and am concerned that this will not work just because I will consume too many calories.

I've had the same thing happen to me. Posting my menu and someone would freak out, "You're not eating enough!!!" I don't remember if it's happened here, I don't think so.

If I have to cut my calorie intake to 10 x my ideal body weight, I might perfect my whining.

I'm 5' and I don't require the amount of food I've been eating the past 10 years because my activity level is a whole lot lower than it was. The past week or so I've cut way down on the amount I've been eating and I'm doing fine. Weight is coming off. I got used to eating a lot and it's hard to fathom how I can eat like I did when I was my nearly ideal weight.

Hang in there and pass information past your logic before you ditch the plan or this forum. This forum has got me through a lot, it'll help you too.

I think if I would start counting calories I would stop this diet!
Many people starts Atkins because they are fed up with calory counting methods!
I think it's not important how many calories you eat, because appetite decreases even from the first day, so you won't eat too much anyway!
But it's just my opinion, and I'm a newbie as well...........

The biggest reason I started this diet was because the book said I could eat until satisfied! What a huge difference that is from low calorie dieting! I was so done with counting calories and starving! It was a huge relief to understand I could eat foods from the allowed list until I was satisfied and if I was not satisfied I could have more until I was. So I guess my point is, DANDR says to start by counting carbs only. So my advice would be... count carbs and follow the plan until it stops working and then start tweaking. And don't forget that the advice you get here is anecdotal. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. The only way to find that out is to try it!

Excellent, excellent post LC Idiot. Calories DO count. Fat WILL be stored as fat if you eat too much of it, even on a very low carbohydrate diet.
People don't realize it's not that calories "don't count", it's that a combination of factors result in it appearing that way for some people who LC. For many if not most people who LC, we have to make an effort to watch our portions.
Here are some examples of factors which will make it seem like eating tons of fat on everything isn't a bad idea...

1) being a guy. (Guys burn LOTS of calories and many can get away with wasting precious calories on low nutrition/high fat foods. Most women, who have dramatically slower metabolisms, stall out more frequently because they burn less calories.)
2) being really active. (Lots of times I hear people who burn ridiculous amounts of calories walking, running, lifting weights etc advising people to eat way more than they likely need, as they don't realize the average person is sedentary and burns way less calories.)
3) being really heavy. (When I was heavy I NEVER counted calories and lost lots of weight. Then when I got smaller I realized I had to more consciously change my behavior and stop snacking unless I was TRULY hungry because my metabolism had dropped significantly. Lots of times I see people blame stalls on weight loss, when in reality they are stalling because they're eating too much to continue losing weight. I also see people who weigh quite a lot telling very small people that they are risking "starvation mode" by eating as little as they do; it may be starvation for them, but for someone like me 1200 or 1300 calories is no where near starving and is only like 300 below maintenance.)

Then there are those people who may have average or normal metabolisms, but because of a relative difference in perception between the way they feel on LC vs the way they feel on other eating plans, they also make the erroneous assumption that calories don't count. Some examples...

1) People who are coming off of very low fat plans, especially those who have some pathology of carbohydrate metabolism, now discover they can eat more calories on a LC diet. This leads them to believe that eating more will speed up weight loss, or even that calories don't count at all on a LC diet.
2) When people start a LC diet, they find they've eliminated all their favorite snack foods - crackers, chips, chocolate, fruit, etc. These are calories people tend to consume without even realizing it. Because they've eliminated so many superfluous calories, they lose weight but they don't feel like they're on a diet. This then leads them to believe there is something magical about LC that allows them to lose weight on the same amount of calories. In reality they've cut out a lot of "empty" calories that go right through w/o satisfying you...

Most of the ill-fated advice comes from people who have a combination of those factors.
Like, a very active carbohydrate sensitive person who previously did low fat (this person will see a dramatic improvement on LC and will perceive that he or she can eat "anything" and still lose weight).
Or, a guy who previously was eating lots of HC junk food (again, this person will see dramatic improvement on LC, because he burns a lot of calories, but he is no longer consuming all these "empty calories" and not even realizing it).

Either way, I totally agree with what you're saying. For awhile on the LC boards there was a perception that fat can't be stored as fat, that carbs are required to store anything as fat, that calories only matter when eating carbs, etc. When people were stalled it was common advice to tell them to eat more calories. I remember this advice and tried it out a couple of times when I was losing. At the time I believed it, but in hindsight I now realize it's not that eating more helped me lose... it's that the wooshes usually came right after a high calorie day and I was due for them anyway. Most of the weight I lost by eating very, very little because LC limited both my appetite and my ability to mindlessly consume snackfood. Plus I was so heavy that I really could "afford" to experiment by doing high cal days, and they likely still were below maintenance. A very small person would likely see considerable weight gain. If a person burns 2000 calories, and is recommended to eat 2500 to "jump start" the metabolism, they are going to do WAY less damage than if someone burns only 1500 calories and are given the same advice. Fortunately for me, I discovered quite quickly that calories do count, so I never stalled out for lengthy periods of time. I lost all my weight in about a year.

I look at it like this. LC is a new thing, so there are going to be lots of myths around it. When LF was new there were also lots of myths around it. It was a lot like the low fat nonsense that only fat can be stored as fat, and just as untrue. While the advice was less damaging (fat is self limiting, unlike carbs, so telling people they can eat all they want of fat isn't going to likely result in weight gain like telling people they can eat all the carbs they want did), it still is completely counter intuitive to making any real progress at weight normalization. Every day here I see post after post of people who are obviously stalling because they aren't changing their behavior to eliminate eating in absence of true hunger, or eating too much at meals... basically, abundance of energy in the form of fat/protein is stalling them out. Instead they do all sorts of other things to try to lose weight which aren't constructive in the long term.

Bottom line, if you want to be a healthy weight, you need to do the following:
a) Break behavioral/emotional associations with food (the majority of over eating is behavioral/emotional IMO. Eat only when TRULY hungry and try to stop when no longer hungry... most people would lose weight and be thin doing this.)
b) Be realistic about your body and weight (if you're a healthy size 6 or 8, even if you weigh 155 pounds, it's unrealistic for you to think LC isn't "working" because you can't maintain a size 2. It's unrealistic to want to be 115 pounds even if you are already a healthy size at 155. I see too many people who are THIN, obviously HEALTHY, but because they weigh more than some people, or because they wear only an "average" size, they think they should lose weight. It's sad how we let a number dictate our self-esteem and perception of our bodies.)

That's it. LC can help control physical problems with sugar, and it can control a desire to eat more than you need, but it's not magic. Losing weight is NOT magic, there never will be a magic pill. We just need to accept this and work with reality, not fight it. Only then can we make progress.

I sometimes wonder about all the people telling other people to eat more calories. It seems to be extremely individual. Apply what worked for you to everyone else and assuming it'll work for them is a mistake.

Personally, I have to watch my calories on Atkins now. People make such a big deal out of it, as if its some horrible task that would rob them of hours a day. I got the Fitday for PC and started logging everything I ate, didn't take long. Eventually as my catalogue of customized foods built up it gets faster and faster to the point where I could log a whole day in about 5 minutes. After awhile my body got used to eating 1200-1400 calories per day and I don't really need to log it any longer. Except when I stall, then I find logging and weighing helps me get back on track. Sometimes those 1 ounces of nuts or cheese start becoming larger!

Its also useful for making sure you're not shortchanging yourself nutritionally.

That advertising is just blatantly misleading to the point of fraud, IMO. Even at nearly 300 pounds I don't think I could have lost on that calorie level.

Calories do matter. If someone is eatin gin excess of 3,000 a day, they may have problems unless they are a large man (that olympic 18 year old swimmer eats 4500 a day). Others though will have appitite supressed to where they only eat around 600 for many days strait, and they start to feel poorly and weight loss does slow.

If you feel you are eating to many calories to get full, start adding fillers to your diet. I'm not talking bread or starches, but veggies can be amazingly filling for little calories. Others find by upping thier fat and lowering thier protien intake they feel full at a much lower calorie point.

All the people on boreds can do is say what works for them, and what they have seen work often in others. Most of the advise they throw out is just sugegstions of ways to try tweaking your plan to see if it works for you personally. If it doesn't work, then move on to the next step.