At the time of this writing, I suggest the following 3 products:

(1) BetaLean by EAS
(2) Adipokinetix by Syntrax (technically, a NCY stack)
(3) Xenadrine by Cytodyne Technologies

As for generics, the old tried and true is to take 20 mg of ephedrine hydrochloride, 200mg caffeine, and (if you want) 81 to 200mg aspirin.

Knock-off brands are scary to me because of quality assurance issues. You get what you pay for .. well, in my mind anyway.

Wow, what a great thread and kudos to Dan for becoming such a Guru. Like Mike, I'm curious as to what he recommends concerning brands.

I'm in Canada and these products are very hard to find. Especially since the following:

http://www.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates.../ephedra_020109

Essentially Heath Canada (our FDA) has BANNED damn near every Ephedrine based product, especially targeting the weight loss products. The above link talks about their findings. Is there any truth to it?

When a huge organization supposedly founded to keep us safe bans a product so completely, going so far as to order a complete recall, I get a littler nervous. As it was I had to go to the States to buy Xenadrine since the Canadian version had been degraded from a fat burner to an energy stimulant. This also made me nervous. Why was Canada refusing to sell full Xenadrine? And that was BEFORE the ban. I haven't been to a GNC lately, but I'm curious as to what they have now if they couldn't even carry full Xenadrine before the ban.

Any comments? Are there alternatives to Xenadrine which are "safer" and still just as effective (let alone available)? Is Health Canada full of it? (see above link for details)

Thanks in advance,

Anthony

P.S. I find "rapid heart beat" listed as a warning on these products rather ironic. Aren't they SUPPOSED to increase your heart rate? I tried my US smuggled Xenadrine for a few weeks and I definitely felt my heart beating faster than normal

While they are not supposed to be 'officially' carrying these products, if you ask them quitely they usually have some behind the counter. I know of a few stores (GNC and others) that carry Hydroxycut - and it is still available today.

Nat

Hi there!
I just wanted to put my "two cents" regarding thermogenics. I recently trained for a bodybuilding competition (about a year ago) and have battled diets and my weight for 6 years now. I have tried every thermogenic out there. Most recently, Hydroxycut.

My advice it to make sure you are taking a safe amount and don't let it become something you rely on. My problem was when I first began taking it, the ephedrine in the pills curbed my appetite so much, that I'd barely eat. Shortly after taking the pill, I also experience jitters, dizziness, and extreme highs and lows when it came to energy. Those side effects all seemed to go away when my body became used to ephedrine. The thing I would caution is that when your body does adapt to it, don't get in the habit of taking more pills to feel those "side effects." Just because the side effects go away, doesn't mean the pill isn't working. That's when people over dose on ephedrine, and we've all read the horror stories.

I was also a trainer and the gym I was at was forced to pull products containing "ephedrine" because of their serious potential. The company quickly turned around and put the product back on the market, just under a different name. Ephedrine has many different names, so be watchful for those.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from taking thermogenics, I would just suggest that you make wise and educated choices. I recently had to get myself off of them because I was becoming dependent on them and that's not okay. Use them for a few weeks, then give your body a break for a week or so. Or try 2 days on, one day off.

Hope some of you can find this info useful
Good Luck!

Ephedra Supplement Has No Side Effects

The results of a study presented at the 42nd Annual Conference of The American College of Nutrition suggest that not all diet products with ephedra are created equal.

In this study conducted by Miami Research Associates in Florida, 12 mildly overweight adults received an ephedrine/caffeine/L-theanine-based weight-loss product twice daily for 14 days. Each dose contained 15 mg of ephedrine (from ephedra), 150 mg of caffeine (from green tea), 40 mg of grape-seed extract and a "neurothermic modulator" blend that included 10 mg of L-theanine.

Subjects were closely monitored for body weight, body water, percent of body fat, sleep quality, stress levels, caloric intake and fasting blood sugar.

Additionally, subjects were given regular electrocardiograms (EKGs) and underwent heart-rate variability and blood-pressure testing for a two-hour period after ingesting a dose of the supplement at each laboratory visit.

Over the course of the two-week period, subjects lost between 1 and 2.5 lb and 2% to 3% of their body fat. The extensive testing on health conditions found no significant changes compared to the prestudy values.

I've read that ephedra has the opposite effect on metabolism on those people who are hypothyroid. In the past, I have tried two different types of ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks. Each time, I gained weight. I am hypothyroid.

Secondly, if caffeine produces an insulin spike, would the ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks be counter-productive to anyone on a low carb diet?

What supplements would you recommend for someone who is hypothyroid other than kelp?

On a more personal note, my friend Brent, who works in a place that runs 24/7, 12 hour shifts, took the ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks to stay awake, as did many people on night shift. At the age of 38, he had a stroke and was told that the ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stack contributed. Whether he had a pre-disposition to stroke, we don't know. So, be careful with this stuff.

I am currently living a low carb life style and felt terribly guilty for buying Hydrodxycut but thanks to NAT I felt better after visiting her confessional booth. However, I started taking them last Thursday..the two before breakfast and two before lunch. I had to tone that way down. I almost lost it. I felt like I was going to crawl out or my skin. So I cut it down to one before lunch and one before breakfast. Amarie stated that symptoms will subside once my body is use to the Ephidrine. Dan is this true? I mean I get dizzy and just feel really crappy. I really want to get that motivational boost you started this thread out with. I want to see results. I could care less about the energy. I have that naturally from working out. Just a quick FYI on side affects and if they will go away will help. Otherwise, I guess I will have to stop taking them. (Another 30 bucks down the drain)

HELP!!

FREE

Willy, I had slight symptoms when I started taking them - but I never went above half the dose (One pill 2 or 3 times a day). You should definitely start out with half the dose (I believe I suggested this to you in your confession booth post) and keep it there for the first few weeks.

The side effects do tend to dissapate with time - but not everyone can tolerate them. Keep a close eye on how you are feeling, please.

Nat

aztovaalex, there is a warning on every bottle containing ECA that people with thyroid conditions should not take this supplement. The warning list is long - everyone should be sure to read it.

Deaths that have been associated with this product are actually lower than those reported for people taking over the counter medications - including asprin. Most cases are the result of misuse and not heeding warnings.

Nat

Thanks Nat.. I will keep a close eye on these feelings.. They did decrease after I cut down to just one pill instead of two..But I still feel slightly on edge and just all around icky! No other probs that I can see..no racing heart or anything like that.. Just not feeling good..kinda quizzy and light headed.

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Thanks Nat.

I read the warnings on the bottle. However, I was told by my pharmacist that everything should be okay as drugs that should hype me up do not have that effect. For instance, I can take all cold and allergy medicines with no difficulty. She said the warning is because some people react adversely to the stimulants.

In my case, the stack seemed to slow the metabolism, rather than speed it up. Unfortunately, I didn't figure this out or get any other information until after the second run. This was back when I still actually believed that what worked for you would work for me. I've since finally gotten it into my head that I am different and have to figure out what works best for me.

As for my friend, he was more than likely taking way more of the stack than would be advisable. For what it is worth, he had the stroke before the government began putting out warnings.

Now, back to my other questions...Wouldn't the caffeine in the stack cause an insulin spike? What supplements should people with a hypothyroid condition take?

Thanks.

I bought Ripped Fuel as I wasn't able to find any of your recomendations. When I get low on these, I'll go to some additional places to see if I can find the ones you mentioned.

I know the mileage varies, but any idea how soon results typically occur from taking an eca stack? I'm only taking two a day and the normal dosage is 6. Haven't noticed strong side effects. Just a bit more awake.

Thanks,

Mike

Has Dan or anyone tried L-arginine based products which build lean muscle and burn fat? They are natural as they normally contain a range of amino acids.

Cocoabear

I'm wondering if these "crutches" will have to be used indefinately. Will your motabilism suffer and slow down causing you to have to drastically cut calories or "balloon" back up with out the ECAs after long-term use?

Debbie Duh, that is an excellent question.. I have often heard that things of this nature do screw up your metabolism. Does anyone have a good answer to this question.

In light of my last post. It has been a week since I started ECA. My unwanted symptoms have tapered way down. I am still only taking half the recommended dose for beginners. I will gradually increase. I was also wondering how long before you see results. I know all are different. I personal story of success would be great. Haven't heard one yet.

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